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Post Info TOPIC: God/Church Issues


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God/Church Issues


Ok, I'm going to warn everyone right off the bat that this is going to be a "venting" post. I was raised in the church, attended faithfully for years. I've been a Sunday School teacher, sat on committees, even chaired some. I've been involved with the politics of the church, sitting in as "lay delegate to annual conference" and things of that matter. I have also heard people say,"All my life I have been active in the church, and then the church turned on me in my time of need." I couldn't imagine it! I thought surely they must have done SOMETHING to bring that upon themselves (I told myself). That is until recently.

I've been through a lot in my life, bad marriages, divorces, cancer, house fire, and raised my 16 year old daughter mostly by myself. But the church has always been there, always supported me, that is until just lately. Some of you know my story, and some of you don't... so for the benefit for those reading this post that don't... I have been caring for my 90 year old mother who has moderate to late Alzheimer's for going on nine years now. IT has been a rough road, with little to no help, not only from family (I am an only child), but now the church. Some that have been in chat have probably heard me tell of the preacher that I asked to come visit my mom after we had attended his church for about a year. He responded by saying, "That's not my job." What? Not your job? Then who the hell's job is it? I wanted to say. But instead I respectfully said, "I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree with you." I had been in al-anon for about 20 years at that point, and I knew better than to jump his ass right off the bat.

He responded by telling me that he had tried that when he first came there, but soon found that to visit every person in his church (since it was so large- 1000 parishioners) was not only not possible, but not practical. I agreed that to visit "every person in his church" was not practical, but that to visit the sick and the infirm I believed was his job. He countered this by saying that he visited those in the hospital, but not in the home. I was starting to get a little irate at this point and said, "So my mom has to end up in the hospital before you will see her?" No response. So I tried to switch gears, I told him that we had been thinking about going back to the little country church that I had grown up in. To this he said, "WEll, then maybe that's what you should do." A little put off, I told him that we "preferred" to continue going here, as they had a good youth program for my daughter. He replied that she could still be active in the youth program and attend "church" somewhere else, that was not a problem. I know that I probably should have just left it there and said, "thank you" and walked out, as he obviously was not going to give in. But I didn't. I persisted with the "I don't understand why you won't visit my mom" routine and he finally said, "Well I just think you're being selfish!" Of course this caused me to over-react and I told him that if I was the selfish one, then I didn't want ANY part of this church and stormed out of his office and slammed the door, leaving the church secretary looking at me bewildered as I stomped out of the room.

So at this point we go back to the church of my childhood, a little country church that my great, great grandmother was one of founding members of, and the church that actually started on our farm in a grape arbor revival. We have around 60-70 in attendance on most Sundays and a VERY small youth group. The teen class consisted of my daughter and one other girl, and a boy a year older than her, but they had good solid Bible study teachings so I wasn't worried. Immediately we immerse ourselves back into this church and everything is fine until mom's Alzheimer's gets more pronounced and we aren't able to make it to Church services hardly at all. Then last Labor Day weekend my basement floods and I ask the church if there are any available person's to help us clean it out, that it would be much appreciated. IT is only me and my daughter, again- no family, and one of us has to watch mom. One elderly gentleman in his late 60's early 70's with bad knees comes to help carry things out of the basement and one woman and her husband who are in their 60's bring by a dehumidifier, and that is it! Ok, telling myself that Expectations are premeditated resentments, I graciously accept their help and we tackle the job together. Also a friend of mine comes to help, and his church (which is just down the road from my church, btw) donates $150 to help us with the expenses of buying blowers, disinfectant and other needs we might have during clean-up, as the insurance guys hadn't even got there yet since it was Labor Day.

Ok, fast forward a few months... I'm still struggling emotionally and financially. I call to talk to my pastor at the small country church. I tell him we need help, and that I hate to ask, because the last time that I asked for help, little to no one came. He said, "Let me approach them on your behalf, that might go over better." So I agreed. He told me to prepare a list of requests of things I needed help with. I prepared a list of four things, as I didn't' want to "overwhelm" them with a long list, although I could have made it MUCH longer! LOL The list was as follows:

1. need someone to sit with mom for 2 hours while I drive to city (a 30 minute drive) to shop at PRice Chopper, HyVee or Aldi's once a month, so I can get food cheaper than at the local grocery. (it's too hard with taking mom along)

2. Someone to sit with mom for a couple of hours a week while I teach my 15 year old to drive (or if someone feels brave and wants to take that on, I'll sit with mom!)

3. Someone to sit with mom for a couple of hours a week, so that I can go to a support group (I was thinking of my f2f al-anon, but I told them of an Alzheimer's support group in the same town about 40 minutes away).

4. I was planning on having a garage sale with the "city wide" sale that was coming up in two weeks, could someone help me with watching mom or the sale?

 

Ok, those were the four things I listed. He presented it to the congregation and they "voted" to contribute anonymously by hiring a caregiver to come 2-4 hours a week. I was like that works. So we set about setting up a time and arrangement for this caregiver. Caroline and I start off on a bad foot, as we have some communication problems at first due to her cell phone having bad service and I thought she just didn't show up one day. Then once we got things ironed out, she decided she had too much to do, so wanted to hire someone else to work in her place, I said that this was ok, as long as it was ok with the church. So after about a month (me still doing all this on my own with no help), we finally get things in place for "Sandy" to come and sit with mom. Sandy worked out real well, and one day after a couple of times sitting with mom, I tell her once mom's VA Aid & Attendance gets approved I would like to keep her on. I say nothing about what I"m going to pay her, or ask her what she is getting paid, and she tells me that she thinks "Caroline" is getting paid $25/hour. I'm said, "Really? Well, I can't afford that much. I was paying mom's caregivers $10/hour before she lost her VA Aid & Attendance, and that's what we'll be able to pay once it starts back up." I also informed the woman that I didnt' know if she was aware of it or not, but that was NOT the going rate for a personal care attendant in this area, that I had researched it as I was going to start a Home Care business myself and hire personal care attendants and was wanting to know what a fair wage was and that in this area it was anywhere from $8-10/hour and maybe more for a CNA at a hospital, or a nurse, but that was it. I said, that if the church wanted to pay them that, that was their business, but I was surprised. She told me "not to quote her on that" but that that is what she had heard they were paying her.

I prayed about this for a long time, as to whether I should say something to the pastor about it or not. Finally I decided that I would, as they might not be aware what the going price for a caregiver was. My first mistake was to send him an email instead of talking to him in person. He emailed me back and told me "it is none of your concern". And then he went on to say, "just enjoy the help". Well, I don't know why this pissed me off, but it did. I knew in my head he was right (it really was none of my business, but of course being the al-anoner I am, I had to MAKE it my business! lol) So I told him in no uncertain terms (again in an email) that, "It sure as hell was my business! This was my mom we were talking about and I had a right to complain if I didn't think the help was earning their pay! This lady had sat on her butt (which was fine with me when I thought she was getting $10/hour) for the whole two hours she was here. She didn't wash the dishes that I had told her she could "if she wanted to" or put the clothes in the washer that I told her she could do "if she got bored", or vacuum. And why was the church unwilling to come help? I felt like they were paying someone else to do THEIR job! So I fired them. (the church and the women) LOL

Well I eventually realized that I over-reacted and behaved badly on at least the last account, but the bitter taste in my mouth from these "people" who called themselves Christians, yet weren't willing to "walk the walk" but only "talk the talk" was very discouraging so I quit going to church all together. No one from either church calls to check on mom or me btw, anymore now or previous to this incident, even though I attended there for most of my life, and my father before me, and my grandfather before him, etc, etc. It still baffles and saddens me.

Fast forward to today... mom is on Hospice and there is clergy provided. I decided (once again falsely) that I might be able to talk to these clergy persons as they were a unassociated third party. First they sent a woman to the hospital on my mom's last visit there, which was only a week after she was admitted to hospice. I had only talked to the woman one time prior to that at my house, and had told her this story. Initially she told me that she thought they (the preachers) were scared of me in a way because I was like a "tornado" spinning out of control. I told her that her analogy was correct, I had so many emotions and feelings flying around right now that I was VERY much like a tornado, but these were "trained" ministers that they should know and understand that I would be like this under the circumstances of caring for an elderly person with Alzheimer's 24/7 with NO help! One was even a licensed social worker at a mental hospital, and he for sure should know! She listened, but did not seem to understand. Fortunately for me, I chose to take the high road with her, and didn't react.

Today was a different case however. I took one last attempt at this "clergy" thing and agreed to see a new person that had recently accepted the other lady's position. I have no idea why the other lady left. Today she called and wanted to know when we could meet. I told her that this week was pretty busy and we were going on much needed vacation starting Friday and wouldn't' be back till next Wednesday. Mom would be in hospice "respite" care during that time. So she asked if she could come today, and again being the 'people pleaser' that I am, I said yes. We agreed on between 2:30 and 3 p.m. I told her that my daughter had to be at guard at 3, so she knew that I was on short-clock to begin with and I knew that she wanted to be out of here by 3 p.m. to avoid rush hour traffic. Unfortunately something came up at the last minute and I had to rush my daughter to the school early (right at 2:30) and I left her a post-it note to that effect and said I'd be back by 3 p.m.

Well, I got back and she was NOT pleased with me. I apologised for being late and she asked me, "Why didn't you call the hospice office?" and I said that I had tried that before with the caregiver and they didn't have her number, so why should I think they had hers? I knew they had the nurses, but that was all. So then I told her that if this was going to be an issue she could just leave, as I knew she didn't want to be in rush hour traffic and it was 3 p.m. She continued with "this wasnt' an issue" she just thought that I  could have called is all. I had HAD it! I told her, "WEll, you know what? It has become an ISSUE with me, so you can just get back in your car and leave!" And to that I walked away from her, with her still saying, "I didn't' mean to upset you."

I know I am over-reacting, truly I do. But you would think these people would be trained to expect this given the circumstances. They are SO inconsiderate. And by "these people" I mean clergy. Everyone else with hospice has been very good, and trust me I've gone off on some of them too, due to the stress, but they handled it very well and "defused" me and I'm sure they had been trained to do that, so why not these clergy people? I know that the church is not God... I am not mad at God, but I am mad at the church and I don't know where else to go with this, but here on this board, because I know some of you out there have had issues too. I'm interested in your feedback, and welcome it, as I know that I could have handled this better, but given the situation, I'm not sure that I could have either. 

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Lisa



-- Edited by Overcome on Tuesday 25th of June 2013 04:14:09 PM



-- Edited by Overcome on Tuesday 25th of June 2013 04:23:51 PM

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I can Overcome all things through my HP who strengthens me.



~*Service Worker*~

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Hi, Lisa. I have both an aunt (she died last week) and a father - both with Alzheimer's. It is miraculous to me that you could bear the 24/7 care your Mom must have needed all this time! Raising your daughter, going to church, being active in Al-Anon on top of caring for your Mother is beyond herculean in my book. Most people DON'T have this kind of stress in their lives. Because of this, they can't understand the type of stress you have labored under for all this time. You need help. You needed help. The people you were taught in church should be there with you and for you probably have no idea the kind of help you needed and gave what they thought would be a major help to you.

Your story reminds me of Moses when he struck the rock. He'd had it. Of course, we know he died. Some in church have considered that his death was his punishment for striking the rock differently than instructed. My take on it? God saw his fatigue and took pity on him. He took him home and out of the responsibilities he had carried for so long. I'm not suggesting you're going to die, but I do think you're striking a rock. You are banging on the rock of people who cannot hear you, understand you or give to you in the way you need now. And its God who created these folks.
If it were me - I'd be mad at God. And I'd tell him so, too.

You are a human being. You need restoration. You need relaxation. You need folks who've been there with you in things like this. I don't know where that restoration, relaxation, or fellowship exists for you, but I know that the Source of all of it is your HP and I trust S/he will bring it all to you in the right way and at the right time. Many, many prayers of blessing and renewal for you are coming your way. I've carried things in my own life that most people have never had to endure. As a friend of mine once said, "You have the most interesting life of everybody I've ever known. I wouldn't want it. But it is the most interesting life of anybody I have known."
Perhaps you have a life like that, too?

St. Theresa of Avila, who did many, many things to help other people as she believed God was asking her to do was quoted as saying after she and all the supplies she was carrying in a cart was dumped in pouring rain along with her into the mud, stood up and said, "If this is the way you treat your friends, no wonder you don't have many of them." And she remained faithful to her HP the rest of her life. She is considered a Doctor of the Catholic Church - a body that doesn't always hold up women for us to learn from.

Again, many prayers for you as you continue your spiritual journey, hard as it is for you. Blessings.



-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 25th of June 2013 07:54:50 PM

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



~*Service Worker*~

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Lisa I am sure your mom is eligible for a caregiver from Social Security. Look in your phonebook for senior services or senior and disabled services or call the dept of human services.

She surely has this available to her. If you cannot find it and need help, pm me.

As far as the "man" who was so rude to you. Not all people are people of our Father honey. In the Bible there was never ONE person who guided and helped people. Look how Jesus even had his apostles who then went out and found others to share the message

I remember when the Isrealites were all leaving Egypt, hope that is right, People were separated and had a many leaders to guide them and keep track of them. These leaders helped each other.

In our congregations we have  a main society, then people who go all over to congregations, then we have elders and then people also volunteer to clean the hall etc. We give people rides, bring them literature etc. It has never been a one person operation. Even God thru his son taught us!

I had to learn to forgive people like him. Hate the behavior, believe me he will be judged.

Maybe this is God's way of telling you this may not be the true religion you think it is. One simple way for me is do they lie? Do they always follow the truth. Ok Christmas is NOT Jesus bday. it is a lie.

If I said my bday was Jan 1. It would be a lie. I want truth in my beliefs. He was very, very wrong. We are all to come to the aid of our brothers and sisters.

I know it hurt, but remember all we do is not for other people as much as first it is for our Father.

Sending you hugs! Debilyn



-- Edited by Debilyn on Tuesday 25th of June 2013 07:26:05 PM

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Senior Member

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Thanks for all your input guys. It really helps. I loved your analogy of the rock, grateful2be it was right on! And thanks for the hug Mandy, I sure did need it! Debylin, mom is not eligible for any assistance due to the fact that we were waiting for the last year on the VA to reinstate her "Aid & Attendance". This just recently happened (memorial day) and we now have funds again, but for the last 10 months we did not. It's a long story, but I also could not put her in a nursing home, or we would have lost our home. wp I did find out that the first church was in the process of setting up deacons to do just that, and the preacher should have told me that, I had to hear it from my Sunday school teacher instead.

What has been disturbing is this is not just the pastors of the church, but the whole church (parishioners and pastor) that have ignored mom, and what saddens me is I hear this Over and over and over from other caregivers, that this is not just happening to me, but them as well. Debylin, it's not just one denomination or "church". The two churches I mentioned above were from different denominations. And so is the experience of the caregivers in the groups I belong to. wp, there is a Alzheimer support group in my area, but I can not get to it, because I can not take mom, and I can't find anyone to watch her, other than my daughter and I rely on her too much already. It is the one support group that I asked the second church that I mentioned, to provide help with watching mom, so I could go.

The only support system I have is you guys, and the Alzheimer's Association chat and message board, which I use. I also recently joined a closed Facebook group called "Memory People" the was started by a man that is in his 50's and was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's. He is trying to spread the word to people as to the plight of the patient as well as the caregiver of the patient. There are also professionals on this page. I have found it very helpful and is a source of 24/7 help much like MIP. It is stated that many "outside" of the caregiving realm just "do not understand" the stress that it puts on a person, much like you said grateful2be, unless you've experienced it. I also think there is a "fear" of Alzheimer's, kinda like leprosy people think they're going to 'catch it'. If people are not educated about it and don't understand, they internalize as fear.

I know that MIP is for people who have issues with someone's drinking, and as many of you know I more than qualify here too, as having married into the family disease of alcoholism four times! But what I have found in you good people, is an understanding that we need to "listen" truly "hear" our fellow man, and not just give it lip service, and not try to "fix" the problem for them, just offer support. That is why I tend to turn to you guys, rather than the Alz. group a lot of times, because a lot of them need to be in Al-Anon, because by the very nature of a caregiver, we tend to be co-dependent and not no how to take care of ourselves and address OUR needs. Al-anon teaches us this, that's why I love you guys!



-- Edited by Overcome on Tuesday 25th of June 2013 10:20:41 PM

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~*Service Worker*~

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(((((((((((((((((Lisa))))))))))))))))))),

Give yourself big hugs and be gentle with yourself.

I can see how you have gotten to the point that you are at now and by I was shocked how you were treated from the clergy. But having my own run in with my local church I am not too surprised.

I hope you enjoy your much needed vacation and when you return maybe you will be able to talk with the woman.

Yours in recovery,
Mandy

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"We are not punished for our unforgiveness, we are punished by it" Jim Stovall

God is seldom early, but he is never late.

wp


~*Service Worker*~

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Lisa, I understand why you would fly off the handle at some of these folks. You must be very very frustrated. Hope you listen to what the others, above, have said. You carry a heavy load. Many of us carry a burden of super human expectations, I think, and most people don't understand our difficulties. Sometimes when I have to go ahead and do some chore that I resent or feel someone else should do but cannot, I say to myself, God, I'm doing this for you and I am happy to do so.

I truly understand that church people are just like anybody else, full of flaws, human. I've been there , including big disappointments.
On one hand, it's understandable that the minister cannot physically do Everything for his flock. However, I would think he/she would have assistants lined up or at least references to places that would help out. Asking for someone to sit with Mom isn't too much to ask in your situation, in my book.

Is there any possibility that you can locate an Alzheimer support group in your area? At least this might enable you to talk with other people in similar circumstances, if not also to guide you to real help.

Be nice to you, and also to others when you can :)

Thanks for sharing.

WP

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~*Service Worker*~

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Your Mom is blessed to have you, Lisa, and to have your daughter, too. One of the things I noticed in your post is absolutely no bitterness towards your Mom or self-pity because you are caring for her. Maybe the clergy haven't come to visit her, but you have and on some level she has to know that and be grateful for it, too. Praying for some kind of respite for you and special blessings for your Mom.

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig

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