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Hi all- I love this board and I lurk a lot, but I don't seem to post unless I'm in crisis. And I'm in crisis now. But because of my active f2f Al-anon work, I am more peaceful and rational this time. I'd still like your input, however.
My AH drank again last night after 6 months of hard working sobriety. We have been down a very long and bumpy road and I really believe I am done. He was arrested after his last drink for drunk and disorderly and since has been working an amazing program of meetings --typically twice per DAY, private meetings with a sponsor at least once per week, a weekly group therapy meeting. Truly the model of recovery and second (or third, or fourth, or fifth) chances. There's no place to hide, and No more excuses left. I'm done. I want him to move out. But because of our tremendous debt (much incurred as a result of his drinking) and financial obligations (house, kids' school) I just don't see how we can do this. I have no family here--and I've worn out my welcome and requests for help with my family 800 miles away due to continually going back with this guy. Money is the only thing keeping me here. at this moment right now.
Quite directly, have any of you left your marriage while having financial problems? How did you do it? How did you think this through? How did it work out?
I would live some insight and ESH.
Love! Crazycatlady
Leaving a situation for uncertainty is scary, for sure. Staying in a situation and watching sanity leave, however, was the other option. In my case, money started leaving with sanity as my exAH's problems grew, so did his debts. Staying for finances is often a false security blanket. There are some differences depending on your location regarding laws and protection, so consulting an attorney would provide facts. Is there a way that you can generate your own income? Please keep attending Alanon meetings, grab a sponsor and work the steps- it is the best way to put one foot in front of the other and keep doing the next right thing.
I am in your situation right now. For me, I had to go see a lawyer to understand my options. Fortunately, I was able to find a lawyer that gave me a initial consultation for free. She gave me important information to make my decisions. I had to get a court order to get my AH to leave the house, and a restraining order on all our financial affairs. There is a lot to still work out, but I am in a safe place and free of the daily chaos that comes with this disease. It is now 6 months after I filed, and I have wanted to return to "crazy land" more than one time. My HP has intervened every time these feelings have occurred. Going to Alanon meetings have given me the tools and support to stay on this path. My prayers are with you. It took me 10 years to get to this point. Having a lawyer that understands addiction is important.
When I asked my exA to leave in Fall 2010 -- I was petrified. We had at least $40k in credit card debt...house payment of $1500/month and car payment of $350 a month. and 2 kids....I cried...ALOT. I just knew I had to do this....so I got him to agree to declare bankruptcy...and we did this as a "married couple" because we couldn't afford 2 bankruptcy lawyers and 2 divorce lawyers....My parents loaned us $1700 for the bankruptcy lawyer...which I paid back by working and teaching extra classes.
It took a while to get through the bankruptcy...but it finally went through. There were many months that I had $50 left in my checking account...and I prayed we didn't run out of oil ($400 minimum for a delivery) before my paycheck came...
I originally thought I could file the divorce myself..but things got weird (he made crazy demands...like 2/3 of my income for alimony)..and I ended up borrowing money from my parents (again! I had no pride left....) for the divorce lawyer...$4500. I am still paying that off...but it was worth every dime...the ex pulled all kinds of crap at his lawyer's urging...then half way through..his lawyer quit the case (I don't know why).
It was a LONG haul. I contacted the bank for the mortgage and told them I needed help, and they were wonderful and lowered my house payment by 400/month...which they were willing to do because I contacted them BEFORE I was late making a payment...to let them know I was struggling. I read Dave Ramsey's books...and shut down all spending...all extra trips (to save gas money)...all expensive pre-packaged foods...and went as long as I could on getting haircuts (I am in a professional position...and speak in front of people...so there was a limit to how much I could let my personal looks go!)...and I found some amazing things at a local Goodwill. I only shopped for clothes at thrift shops. I conserved on oil by burning wood, limiting hot water use, and keeping the thermostat at 55-60. I disconnected directtv and we did netflix for 7.99 a month instead. I found out which day the grocery store did mark-downs on high priced items...and stocked up. I scavenged other people's gardens and froze all the veggies I could....and all of these little things added up and I was able to make it through.
Honestly, I couldn't have done it without help from my parents. Once, last winter, the pump on my well went...and I had no money to replace it...($750) -- so Dad lent me the money to buy the pump, and we installed it ourselves in below zero, snowy weather.
It is sometimes hard on the kids because their friends have all the latest electronics, and are currently going to expensive day camps...and I just can't swing it...so we swim in the local river and do things around the house.
It all starts with the first step, then the next step...I could never look at the whole picture of what I was up against, especially early on in the process, because I would have needed a straitjacket...so make a list...and just start chipping away at it. Step by step...separate your finances...get your own accounts...etc.
One step at a time, one day at a time...and you can get through this.
When I made the decision to separate from my AH after 29 years of marriage, I was so scared about how I was going to make it financially. My kids were grown and out of the house by that time, but I had student loans to pay, attorney bills due to having to hire him to save our house from foreclosure, and we were in a lot of debt. I had a decent job, but I really didn't think I could make it on my own. Somehow, thanks to smart budgeting, the help and advice from family, Al-Anon, and sheer determination, I figured it out. I cried on the day I moved from my five bedroom, four bath home of 25 years to my 1 bedroom, one bath, tiny apartment. But it was near work, so I took the bus, walked everywhere (which helped me to lose ten pounds in a couple months), packed my lunches, and only bought food as I needed it so nothing was wasted or thrown away.
Now, two years later, I have found serenity. The drama is mostly gone. I can breathe! I can pay my bills, I have money saved and my credit score is getting better and better. I might not be rich in the true sense of the work, but I am richer in my faith and my fortitude. Was it easy? No. Was it worth it? Yes!!!
I agree with RP: One step at a time, one day at a time...
I was terrified of how I was going to support myself and 4 kids. I have a good job and it is a struggle some months. Being 5 or 6 days from payday and wondering how I am going to feed us. But we have never gone hungry and we have always made it work.
When I left our finances were in utter destruction. I had hit my bottom. He was drinking a great deal of his paycheck and we were not able to meet our obligations. He sometimes kept $1500 to $2000 a month of what should have gone to the family budget to himself, drinking up most of it. Our home is now in the final stages of foreclosure and there is no way I could have salvaged that. I knew I could not afford it on my own, the mortgage alone was $3200. We have done everything we could to shortsale it or work something with the bank, but they refuse all offers. It is what it is and I can't change it.
Our finances were separated before I left, separate bank accounts and bills, I simply packed up and walked out. I think in part it was part of his disease. He refused to allow me any knowledge of the money. I knew nothing. I was not allowed to know how much he made, how much anything cost, no joint accounts, no joint bills, no information on anything. He hid the world from me. Even the computer had passwords on it. It was how he kept his disease so secret.
I know I will eventually recover financially. What matters is that I am recovering spiritually and emotionally now. At night I sleep and have peace in my heart. I love me again and am happy, so are my children. That is worth the foreclosure and the possibility of filing bankruptcy. I don't care about all of that when I can sleep at night and am so happy. The freedom is worth a knock to the credit score. The peace is amazing.
Money and financial "security" was one of the final things that left me feeling tied to my exAH.
But the funny thing was, when I'd think about it, was that I was more financially insecure with an active A than I'd be out on my own and knowing I was the only person spending my earnings.
Becoming "fully self-supporting" (as Tradition seven states) was an important part of my recovery.
When I had decided I'd truly had enough with the exAH, I didn't announce it to him right away. I instead went out and got myself a second part-time job (I work full-time, too). I gave him the excuse that I was wanting to pay down debts, which was partially true, but I really was wanting to pull in enough money to make sure I felt comfortable if we went separate ways. The second part-time job ended up being a godsend in its own way -- I was home a lot less often to experience the A's toxic behaviors. And when we did finally separate and then divorce, when I was living on my own, I was too busy to ever have a bunch of down-time and feel lonely and sorry for myself.
What really helped me, I think, was a couple years before this decision I'd made about getting divorced, I completely separated our finances after one of his rock-bottoms. We used to share a joint checking / savings account and after his rock bottom, I stopped depositing my paychecks into the joint accounts and told him from that point forward, we'd pay our bills from our own accounts. Of course when he was lucid, he agreed, but later on when he fell back into drinking, he really resented me for it. He no longer had extra disposable income to spend on his drinking and compulsive spending. The separate accounts didn't help our financial situation as a whole... I found that I was the one who kept footing probably 80% of our expenses because he'd never contribute when it came time to pay the bills. But it made it VERY easy when we went our separate ways.
We fortunately never had any loans with both our names on it... his credit cards were all under his name, mine were under my name, etc. We rented, so we didn't have any property to have to fight over (or not). We didn't have children, either. So all of those things worked in my favor.
As others mentioned, you may want to talk with someone familiar with your state's laws about your debts, assets and children. They'll know what you can legally do. In the meantime, you might want to ask yourself what things can you do to make yourself fully self-supporting.
I know when you file for legal separation, his debts are his and yours are yours. I would agree you need legal advice and there is a lot of inexpensive legal advice. My friend just went to Legal zoom to file bankrupcy.
Remember to never make decisions when you are angry, if you examine your feelings, make sure its not coming from that. Take a few days to mull it over. I know its crushing when they have been sober for awhile , then go back to drinking, its frustrating. Is it anger or is it that its done and over because you do not want to live with an alcoholic . If its clear, then you can take the steps to protect yourself.
It is possible to implement boundaries while still living with the A because of financial reasons. I lived with the A many years until it was financially plausable for us to separate. I lived single but had a roommate, thats how I looked at it.
Whatever the choice be kind to yourself, do not suffer unnessasarily!! Hugs, Bettina
I tightened up my relationship with my sponsor and started pulling my self back from trying to figure the answers out myself. My sponsor worked the slogans "When in doubt....don't" and "Don't React" on a daily basis and that kept me out of the past and future and in the now. That gave me much less things to worry about and fret over...I let go of a lot on a daily basis and only worked what was in front of me. I worked on detaching with love and attaching with my HP and so what I was letting go of with my then alcoholic/addict wife I was using to reconnect with my HP and sponsor. The money part? I knew and know from listening to others in the program and looking at the similarities how others felt and acted/reacted concerning finances and family troubles so I had tons of real information and acted as if the whole world was on the same page on the subject. I called creditors and told them there was trouble and that payment might/will be slow. I also asked them for their understanding when they were in the same situation (you'd be surprised how many people are in the same problem) and got compassion and a willingness to work something out. Those who were adamant had to deal with their own anxiety and anger...You really cannot get blood out of a turnip. I drew up priorities and followed them and then made an decision with my alcoholic/addict wife about what I would do and wouldn't do and told her the consequences if she would not do her part. She didn't like it as she got use to drinking and using and having the extra support too. In a year or so everything was serene with my side of the street and I had no idea how she was doing...isn't that how it is supposed to go? I gave up my inquisitiveness regarding how her life was going with the exception of honest compassion which still let me know that was the only honest part I should pay.
My sponsor taught me a lesson regarding making choices and I will share that with you. "Think of the consequence you want first before making the decision on what to do." To many their response might be "Well Duh...fer sure or Of course that makes sense" but for this reactive enabler it was rocket science that helped change my life. Hope this supports you. ((((Hugs))))
Actually Jerry that statement of the obvious is just what us enablers need, I still forget it sometimes and have just printed it out in Capitals and placed it on the board in front of me as a reminder.
crazycatlady: Never left my marriage because of financial difficulties or had them after leaving a marriage. But, I tell you when my husband was out there he made a lot of foolish choices about money. I didn't leave him then. I just went w/ the flow & he paid back all his debts when he got sober. I was not responsible for his debts but I sure felt sorry for him. He has been sober for almost 7 years & is almost debt-free. Maybe this didn't help you but I wanted to send my ESH.
I am also at this crossroad and standing in your shoes! First let me say, I am so sorry and understand the turmoil you must be going through! If you are like me, this can be all consuming at times. I too have run the numbers and simply don't know how I can make it!
I am pushing 50 and haven't worked outside the home in over 7 years. After taking a very realistic inventory of my skill sets, I realize they are quite limited. Plus getting back into the CORPORATE Fish Tank is anything but appealing to me! Prior to my marriage with my AH, I was a single mom of 3 totally financially independent and making it without any help. Unfortunately like so many companies, the industry I was in has taken a huge hit with drastic downsizing. Additionally, re-hiring a middle aged woman makes no sense when a new graduate will work for peanuts. All of the savings and 401K money I worked so hard to make has been lost in the stock market. So to say I would be starting at GROUND ZERO is an understatement!
I would love to open a small B&B ( spent a lot of time praying about this!) but have no idea where I could get the financing! So frustrating!
Anyway, sorry to vent on your post but wanted to let you know you are not alone and I empathize in every way! Hang in there and we will get through this together. I'll keep you in my prayers!
If we supply the willingness, HP supplies the means. Ours isn't to figure out the how of it but to walk through doors that open to us when we're open to letting our HP guide and provide. That's my experience, strength and hope. Our main job is being the person we've been created to be and if surrendered, all that will help us be that and do that comes to us clearly, efficiently and beautifully without a whole lot of effort on our part other than to receive what is ours to receive, to go where led, to trust what is and to believe that more will be revealed one day, one minute, one moment at a time.
A few years ago, try as I might to save enough money to buy a new car to replace my 15 year old car, I just couldn't keep up with soaring prices. One day, I knew I had to purchase a new one although I loved my old one and loved having no car payments. I prayed about it. I talked the issues over with friends. I tried to make the old car right in my mind, but knew that at over 200,000 miles, the engine leaking oil - the repairs were only going to get bigger than it made sense to pay. I still kept trying to spend as little as I could to keep the old car afloat even though the driver's side window was broken, the odometer didn't work, the bottom was rusting out, the check engine light was always on, and I would only drive it in town because I feared breakdowns on the open highways or out of town.
I journalled what I was trying to do in prayer form. Then, I let my HP "speak to me." These were the thoughts: "Why would I want a daughter of mine to be driving a 15 year old car with no way to close her window in winter, lock her doors, rely upon safe travel, or go anywhere other than this small town?" I realized it was me who was keeping me chained to a "not enough" mentality. I found a good, used car, put close to 3/4 down on it and financed the other portion with very low interest for the next few years. My certified car came with a 2 year warranty and has been wonderful for me to have - especially given the reality that shortly after I bought the car, my Dad ended up in assisted living and my son in prison and I needed reliable transportation to do what I needed to do as a daughter and as a mom. It would have cost me way more to keep the car and keep repairing it as it fell apart one item after another - none less than $300 to repair - and that's just window.
