Last suggestion: stop trying to Choose your higher power; let higher power choose you. If we try to Force any solution (even hp) it can lead to insanity.

-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Tuesday 11th of June 2013 02:41:09 PM

There are 12 step programs for athiests that I think you can access on-line?  I don't know anything about the effectiveness of those programs, but you could also research them if you choose.

With respect to Exactly where you are being Ok, These beliefs that We All have in different ways are based and gathered according to what We Each have Experienced in life. Life being our environment growing up, relationships, experiences outside our home, may be with or without church, etc.. I don't know But the point is they are not what we Each have Experienced. There are no right and wrongs, there are only experiences. You believe there is no God because of what You have learned or have not, etc., I believe there is a God because of what I have learned or have not, etc.. The Unity of Al-anon as a Whole depends on the willingness to Adherence (follow) the previous Traditions that have worked to help Everyone as a whole for over 40 50 years, etc. We couldn't Even heal ourselves Let alone a World wide Fellowship. It's crucial to become willing to follow the traditions Without bringing in our Personal Religious beliefs or opinions about Religion Period. In sharing the perception of being atheist and believing there should be no Christian beliefs or even the mention of God which we might as well be saying (of Any sort), etc., is a personal opinion Absolutely no different that my sharing there should be. These are the same and these are Ok for each of us. Willing to Adhere means if the program has worked for literally years, Let the program work ..

I was just reading a section in Discovering Choices.. Which mentioned As Individuals we are able to take what we like and leave the rest .. But As a Group, We need to be careful on this. If we wish to Maintain a "Solid' Foundation on which the steps will lead us toward growth, We Cannot just simply take what we like and leave the rest. If we get in there and change, fix, control, force, Our Unity could very Realistically crumble and Alanon could slowly Disappear. There is one authority. If you are hearing Christian beliefs, The one thing I Always remember is to Try to Keep an Open mind and recognize the Possibilities that there is always something for Each of us Individually to learn. Many of us, Such as Myself, come in the doors with Self "Right" eous attitudes. I Needed to be Right about many things (If I wasn't there was something wrong with Me). Al-anon Traditions Never being one of the things I needed to be Right about. The only thing I Needed for these was to Listen and Learn a Better way than what I knew before. I do not believe in the program because of what others have told me about it. I believe in the program, Steps, Traditions, beliefs because of what I have learned. Taking Higher Power out of the program would be to do the Exact Same thing that brought us Into the program, thereby placing us in the Same settings we just came out of. The Definition of Insanity is doing the Same thing we have Always done and expecting new results: We could Not fix ourselves. Step two is All about Working the steps. It's about possibilities and coming to believe there just Might be a higher power. As for who and what that is, Noone can decide for any of us. Step One is about Admitting and being Honest (Our own beliefs) .. Have you done this ?

The Definition of Shame is telling us or another what is wrong with us. I do not believe Anyone should be Ashamed, I do believe Everyone needs to continue to keep coming back learning and growing. Being Fully Aware that what I judge in another IS also in me, I remember growing up and telling myself my entire life, I Believe in God. This was in part an Agnostic Belief. How could I believe God Existed and DisBelieve He would or Couldn't Help Me. On a different level, I Too was somewhat of an Athiest. Thank God I didn't say let's do this My Way !! My Way Never Worked !!

As for beliefs It's ok to express them, it's what can sometimes change them in whatever direction is right for us (Every direction leading Toward increased Serenity, Sanity, Hope, Happiness, Joy, and Freedom). Most of us come through the door unsure a higher power exists because We Are our higher power.. For me, example, Since I came in believing I knew everything Already it was hard to listen. Even more so to Learn?. Ironic with me knowing everything or rather being Right, It's a wonder I needed the steps at all. I am not all wise. I no longer claim to Believe that no one else's perception can actually be clearer than mine. I only need to step out of myself and agree to be willing to remain open to Hearing what others have to share. Thank God we were Not all in a state of distorted thinking at the same time or confusion when I first walked through the doors.. I am Forever grateful to the Absolute Higher Power working through these rooms.. Regardless of our perceptions which are many, there is only One Higher Power. A loving God who Expresses Him/Her/Itself through the voices of our Rooms and members of our beautiful fellowship =)

Thanks for sharing. It has given me an opportunity to renew my commitment and regard for the Traditions of many years. How Important are they? They are our Very Foundation.. Without them we would All crumble and become buried Once Again.

As a fellow atheist I totally get where you're coming from.  Even though there are nods to it being okay that one's HP can a non-supernatural entity, there are a lot of people who are very devoted to the Christian God and that can make others feel as if they're marginalized in the fellowship.  Plus saying things like "I know my HP has my life planned out for me" doesn't always apply when one's HP is not a sentient, planning being.  I regard my HP as the desire for emotional health that's in all of us -- "Good Orderly Direction" -- the thing that makes us unhappy when our healthy needs aren't met, the thing that lets us know that the situation is just wrong.  That's something to trust, but it doesn't control my future in the way that a supernatural being would. 

Here's what a friend told me, though.  He said, "Say you had a terrible enemy.  You really hate this guy and he's not all that fond of you.  And you'd be happy never to deal with him for the rest of your life.  Now say you went hiking and you got lost in a huge wilderness.  You've been lost for days and you're starving and you think you might actually die out there.  And then you meet your 'enemy.'  He says, "There you are!  Thank goodness!  We've had search parties looking all over for you!  They were starting to lose hope!  But I said you might be over in this section!  And now we've found you!"  Wouldn't you follow that guy out of the woods, joyfully, even those he's your 'enemy'?  That's what the spiritual angle of Al-Anon is like.  You don't have to buy into people's particular wording.  But it's here to help you hack your way out of the woods.

As a dyed-in-the-wool atheist, I'd suggest you give it a try.  Look for the commonalities in what people say.  There are many many more of those than in how various people regard the spiritual.  We're all in this together.

It was said to me, don't worry about religion.  Just try to understand that you are not simply a human trying to have a spiritual experience, but rather a spirit in the mist of a human experience.  Your Higher Power can simply be the Positive Energy in the world.... you let it flow in, through and out of you.

Keep it simple

John

Also 4st, this is not AA, we do have the 12 steps, but different dynamics.

We are the Spouses, family and friends of Alcoholics trying to make our relationships work in the midst of this dreadful disease.

 

 

So I was laying in the roadway down at the bottom of an "S" turn and it was dark...after 5pm in the winter months of 1989.  My ankle was broken; I wasn't going to just walk away from this one which was one of my M.O.s; getting out and away on my own power and now...Uhuh.  So I said out loud "Out Loud" like I was speaking to someone or thing that was there with me; never had done that before..."I am afraid and I am going into shock".  Just after I said that I heard in reply, "You're no longer hurting...you're healing".   Weird...and true cause that is what the body naturally does and so I calmed a bit until I noticed others coming to help me which caused me to fear again because I am most naturally and basically a loner, isolator and I started to be afraid again for the reason of others touching me and lifting me up and me not being able to just get up and walk away and then I heard "Let them take you...do not resist".  When I made that decision I got calm and relaxed again and they took me off the middle of the street before the next wave of traffic came down; and they laid me next to the curb while flashing lights and sirens showed the approach of emergency crews; and I started to get afraid again because I was laying on my back downhill with my head below my body and again for a reason I didn't know I said out loud again, "I'm going into shock...I am afraid" and then I started to laugh because what I heard in response next made me laugh, "Use your ki" and I responded "I didn't know you knew anything about the maritial arts"!!  The ki is the center of my being and I learned the term from inside of practice of the maritial arts...anyway I went to my ki and released all of the fears I had at that moment and my entire system went level.  After the emergency people did as much as they could one of the EMTs told me "You've been in and accident...and your ankle is broken...and other than that "there is nothing wrong with you".  To keep this short and to the point that I was abided by from a power greater than myself outside of my self who I will allude to only in those terms; In the morning when the surgeon came in to check on me and his work and bawl me out for not taking the morphine drip he himself told me, "I am a teaching surgeon and am very good at what I do.  I was the one that met you at the hospital from the ambulance and I know why I decided to insert 6 pins and screws in your broken ankle" he showed me the xray and yeppers it was broken.  He continued, "Only now I don't know why I had to do that" and he showed me the after xray which revealed no break at all!!  I already knew I was abided by and the surgeon said..."There is something bigger than I going on here that I don't know anything about".  He may have been athiest; I don't know and then he didn't either did he.  By the way the whole event was witnessed by others in the program and out...This is only one of the events which helped me believe when I came to believe.   I wasn't even trying and it happened...never said one prayer during the whole thing...just "acted as if" as I was taught to by the fellowship.  I do know that many times when I refused to believe the strongest emotion I was feeling was fear.  

Check out your fear level and see where it's at.  

Just a suggestion?  Best to get your alcoholic self around those who know about it.  There is an alcoholic board here at MIP...don't be afraid of it jump in and listen with an open mind and tell the fellowship there where you are coming from.  I am a double so I go there also.  Bringing your alcohol problem here might not get you sober.  It might work toward negatively affecting some of the victims who come here for help.