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I'm having an incredible challenge I just cant seem to detach from. I recently relocated to a different part of my state and there is only one alanon meeting. There is someone in the group who seems to believe that she is "in charge" and is responsible for always leading the meeting and its her job to keep everyone in the group (very small number) "on task" which apparently means reading literature aloud for the whole meeting. We are only allowed to share on the paragraph we read when its our turn. I just cant handle this kind of controlling behavior. I am the only person in the meeting with any kind of long term attendance of alanon so the other members dont know this is not the norm. I accept that apparently there is a trend that "crosstalk" includes mentioning any topic brought up by another person at the meeting(as interpreted by the leader).. I really need meetings after not having one for so long in my town. It's one of the reasons I moved. How do I broach this in a group conscience meeting?Frankly I dont know what to say without causing a rift. Otherwise, I guess I have to stick with online meetings.
Online meetings can fill a void...the group conscious is tradition for us and practicing courage is personal recovery. I've been in that situation a few times myself and believe that a couple times I was surprised that the person I thought wanted to be in charge actually was looking for relief and a break in habits. I have also help to start meetings which is also another option. Keep coming back ((((hugs))))
I can be very difficult to encounter this but not surprising. Our disease loves to control. There is a reading in the ODAT page 276 that speaks directly to this subject.The page speaks of a" managing old timer who ruled everything with an iron hand" The new member objects to this format and searches for a meeting where members are permitted to grow.
I would call for a group conscience, read the 2nd tradition and the above page and ask for a format change. Have an idea of the format that works and propose it.
Offer to be of service. Come early and offer to chair a meeting. She may be doing it because she doesn't see an option. Codependents have a natural tendancy to believe no one else will do it or they won't do it right.
Also ask for clarification - is this promoted as a literature meeting? It sounds like the format, but ought to be advertised as such. My literature meeting is actually my favorite; I love how it keeps the focus on the Al-Anon program, rather than encouraging tangents. It made the biggest difference in my outlook, to be exposed weekly to Al-Anon literature I may not have read on my own.
If you make these gentle efforts and she shuts you out or refuses to change, you might consider starting another meeting. That would be a wonderful way to be of service, and to provide the kind of meetings you and others need.
thank you all so much, these are wonderful suggestions. I already called a group conscience for next week to suggest a format change to allow time for discussion of what we're reading. I will check today to see if no one else is signing up to lead. Maybe have a topic based on first reading and move on when everyone has had opportunity to share. More will be revealed!
You need to approach her alone first, tell her you want to talk. Politely tell her your concerns. If she ignores this then you need to tell other members of the group and if they agree with you you all approach her. I can't see that not working but if it doesn't lol change the meetings to a different spot and leave her out.
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Don't be afraid, everything will be ok in the end.
in my experience of al-anon, members try not to take others' inventory either individually and collectively. We strive to keep the focus on ourselves. We do set boundaries and discuss issues together during a group conscience meeting. "Let their be no gossip or criticism of one another" is part of our closing statement if read during your meetings. Instead let the love, peace and understanding of the program grow in you one day at a time for this is how we help one another in Al-anon . Thank you all for your input. It turns out I was sick today and couldn't attend the meeting! Hmmmmmm.
One meeting in my hometown. It is hard for me not to try to control the meetings too. I am an old-timer but I know that I don't know it all!It is too bad that you don't have choices as far as meetings go. I go to meetings as far as 60 miles away sometimes. It is good for my recovery!
just a share of experience in regard to a similar situation. I approached the other alone; normally would have agreed however the flipside in this case was because it wasn't in a group conscience format, it was perceived more so as gossip. in the middle of my sharing with this person, another walked up; she related it to the other and mentioned I had concerns with the group. This in turn came to at least look as though I was talking about the groups with only one member. anyway, it made me realize that unless something was said that truly was crosstalk by one member toward me personally and not recurring as a whole; I try to approach the group today remembering in a 'group' setting, there is also higher power in the center. (I know anywhere but sometimes individuals aren't willing to listen) all we truly need is Unity with Hp and even One other member sometimes to lead toward more. may be you are the first to mention it but not the first to see it.
Thank you metwo2 and hoot nanny for your insights. The gossip and criticism label is what I'm trying to avoid. My newcomer sponsee was at the meeting today and she is sounding like she doesnt think she qualifies for Al-anon. All I could tell her was to suggest she please go to at least 6 meetings and a different meeting before deciding if al-anon is for her. I was supposed to meet with her after the meeting but I didnt feel well enough to go. Oh well.
CWYA I would truly think of searching out a Hospital or Church basement and start my own meeting It really does work Build the meeting and they will come. I know this for sure.
Just recently my meeting was moved becausee our space had been flooded by Sandy. We moved to a church basement right next door to an AA meeting. Although our regular members could not find us within a month we had more members than ever before AA spread the word.
Good Luck
-- Edited by hotrod on Wednesday 12th of June 2013 06:25:38 PM
-- Edited by hotrod on Wednesday 12th of June 2013 07:12:41 PM
Me too SAMC. It took a year of me going to alanon meetings to feel like I qualified. I wasnt living with an active alcoholic so clearly didnt belong I thought. Well once I figured out I carried an alcoholic around between my ears I finally "got it." I would have died I know if someone had done this to me.
Right? I thought my mother was my biggest problem, and she wasn't an alcoholic, "just" mental problems and "just" painkiller addiction. But then a few weeks after my first meeting I read in "How Al-Anon Works" that some people were members because of a grandparent, and it was like the biggest lightbulb went off! Ohhh, my mother was this way because of her alcoholic abusive father, and he was that way because of his parents, and my grandmother was a codependent... then over the first year I realized just how many close friends I'd had that had been chaotic relationships and who I had ultimately cut off because of alcoholism.... now I almost laugh to think I had a hard time believing I'd qualify to be an Al-Anon member, my life has been so affected by the disease! But I wouldn't have laughed that first day, and it took me six months to work up the courage to that day.
When I told this story to a long-time member I respected, he told me it took him two years to figure out who the alcoholic was in his family. It was the "Do I Belong?" questions that kept him coming back. This person is such a great role model, mentor to many, a leader in so many ways; if someone had told him he didn't belong, so many people would have missed out on the gift of his program service.
I really hope you can restore justice to this situation. It does sound like so many people would so benefit from a new meeting. I hope you can find some people to join you to start one! It sounds like the one you've been to is a lost cause without some serious outside intervention.
-- Edited by samc on Wednesday 12th of June 2013 07:06:47 PM
At my home group the chairperson reads one page and then shares. Then we ask that people share on that reading/topic or whatever is on their mind. That makes the meeting more flexible. We also use a calendar and sign up to chair. That way the one person who thinks they are in charge wont be the chair every week.
Sorry you have to deal with this. Let us know how it turns out LIN
Well, I got a call from someone new I was sponsoring who went to the meeting. She was told she didnt qualify and probably wouldnt get much out of alanon so she's not going back. Just goes to show why we have the traditions and the only requirement for membership is to have a relative or friend with a problem with alcohol. This kind of behavior can be lethal. I know there is a calendar for signing up but she directs the meeting whether she's "leading" or not. I'm going to go to the meeting tomorrow and sign up to lead. Otherwise I'm going to have to not attend. It is just not good for me.
That is completely horrifying. It was what kept me away for so long, the fear that someone would tell me I didn't belong. What a horrible thing to do to a newcomer. :(
Me too SAMC. It took a year of me going to alanon meetings to feel like I qualified. I wasnt living with an active alcoholic so clearly didnt belong I thought. Well once I figured out I carried an alcoholic around between my ears I finally "got it." I would have died I know if someone had done this to me. I would never have had the courage to stand up for myself and leave my abusive alcoholic on my own and either I or my ex would have been dead or in prison. I'm sorry but I consider anyone with only 1or 2 years of any 12 step program a newcomer and they dont often realize that this horrible disease is fatal to alanons too! The more I've thought about it and written about it the more I have realized I just cannot attend this meeting. If my newcomer sponsee is willing I'm hoping she might be able to drive us to a meeting at a distance. I cant drive because of vision and car problems. Thank you guys. I'm alone and isolated and moved here so I would have meetings to go to. I think I'm going to check out other 12-step meetings. Its the next best thing to alanon.
Thanks for sharing about your challenges. You may want to see about getting in touch with your local District or Area and reaching out for help.
They have actually been discussing de-listing in-active groups or groups that do not adhere to the three legacies at the World Service Conference. There's nothing set in stone, yet, but it's to give you the idea that this is an issue that crops up. I'd really try to reach out to your local District - perhaps their District Representative could pay a visit to the group to at least get an idea of what's going on. And if you can't find a District contact, then get in touch with your Area service members, such as the Area Delegate or Area Chairperson.
I agree with the other's suggestions, however... if there's not a meeting that fits well with you, then you can certainly start one up on your own. You don't have to man it and lead it - all you need is at least another member or two and you can delegate responsibilities with them, on who would like to be the Group Representative, who would like to open the doors, who would like to take care of literature, etc. Get in touch with your District, too, to discuss how to get a meeting started.
While I love MIP, I just honestly couldn't see myself progressing in my recovery relying on online contact alone. Those face-to-face meetings are invaluable.
I agree "hotrod" (so good to hear from you all). She as in CW said we had to wait to have a meeting and she wanted to know what the topic would be. I didnt want to say and completely derail the meeting we were in since she had already taken up 40 minutes of the hour with business affairs. i dont know for sure since I hadnt been in a business meeting with her before, that every topic to be discussed has to wait 2 weeks I guess. I'm so confused and disheartened over this at this point, I dont really want to go back.
Thank you so much Aloha. This woman is our district representative because there are so few people at the meeting (shock and surprise) and so many people qualify in another 12 step program there is no one else to be our rep. But I have homework to do but honestly I have to say the two times I've tried to intervene I've been shot down. I'm the only person in the group with real long term recovery--I'm old and ailing--so I hate to give up on it. But I have to take care of myself first before the group. Right? It just breaks my heart. I wanted to find Alanon spoken here so badly.
Thank you everyone! Over the course of the last couple of days I've worked out that the best solution for me is to start a new meeting in a new space at a differnet time. That way I dont have to sow discord in the group by confronting anyone during the meeting especially since it didn't work anyway! This program WORKS thanks to the ever healthy intervention of solid Al-anons and a faithful HP. I dont know how I knew but I really sensed you were an East Coaster "Hotrod." I gave away my copy of How Alanon Works (I'm just always doing this) so cant look up "do I belong?" But I'm gonna hunt up the topic in the other literature. You guys are life-savers and I'm so, so grateful. Sometimes the most obvious solution just has to "smack me like a Mackerel."
I think "Do I Belong?" is from a pamphlet, but of course I can't remember which one... Most all of my meetings read it, though, so I'm sure you can get it in the same process of starting an AFG.
I once started a meeting in a town that there was no meeting, because I saw what a need there was....I started it with one other person and for weeks we were the only ones, but then they started coming slowly but surely, also u must remember in a small town people know each other and are embarassed that they have problems so they hesitate to come. But even if u just help one person (yourself) u are making the world a better place to live....thank you, in support Oldergal
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Don't Worry About Growing Old, It Is A Privilege For Some Of Us.....
Thank you older gal! I know what you mean. I'm a member from way back so have an older "version" of the program even though its the same literature. I havent been able to keep up with all the changes. I was absolutely stunned by the idea that saying you could identify with some else's situation during your "share" could be viewed as "crosstalk" so I'm a little taken aback. I've started meetings many times so hope eventually people will come. They didnt at the last place I lived and I've never been anywhere that needed it as bad as they did. I'm an older gal too so cant see what's in your profile picture. Care to share?
im happy you know to bring this up at a ggroup conscience or monthly business mtg. If there is no monthly business mtg, ask for one so you can better understand how the traditions are being used in this group.
you will have a fight on your hands. She is depending on using this group. Don't fight back!!
You will have to know you are doing what's right for God and traditions, but follow principles yourself. That are all outlined in AAs Big Book. An attitude of intolerance won't get you or God anywhere. A real respect for her right to a viewpoint or opinion while calmly outlining the traditions.
There are no Governors in meetings!
be lighthearted and pleasant and say the truth. It may not change overnight but TRuth is always heard.
this is a great opportunity also for you to learn to sit with discomfort during meetings. It's our pride that hates co trol and we have GOT to learn to suck it up for our own growth!
In other words, this has to be done for Gid and Alanon, not you.
Working...I am not high and mighty about my "status" and do not think I or anyone should be a Governor. As I said earlier, I asked for a group conscience right off, and we've discussed the traditions a few times. Apparently, one group holds all the meetings everyday of the week with one GR and business meetings are a "rolling" group conscience which means people at all meetings each day of the week discuss and decide by consensus and vote on the format for each day. Still figuring this out. But group conscience discussions very enlightening. Our Higher Power decides this stuff not us and I found a new way to do what I need for myself around the Traditions. I do not give up on people or meetings either but I would start another meeting if I felt it was not possible to have the traditions honored at any meeting. We dont read or talk about AA's Big Book in alanon meetings here. I was confused with your statements "you'll have a fight on your hands" but "dont fight back." I dont ever fight with anyone at meetings or at least not during the meeting if I have a disagreement with someone. As noted in other shares here it is not always possible to do things one on one and still honor the understanding people in my group have about "gossip" and "cross-talk." I strive to the best of my ability to do neither but I am not perfect.
-- Edited by cwya on Tuesday 18th of June 2013 06:31:04 PM
Working through it--thank you so much for your viewpoint. I really planned to have the group conscience and discuss how meetings are led and type of meeting its supposed to be. Many people have never been allowed to speak without interruption etc. only requirement for membership is to have a problem with alcohol in a relative or friend. But into the breach today. I have I can do as you suggest and simply listen I just dont know what questions to ask.
I just read a few more of the posts here (missed them this morning.)
I agree that anyone can start another meeting and sometimes it really is time to move on, but this could also be an opportunity for God and everyone involved.
I always appreciate it if someone comes to me after the meeting and not in front of anyone else and talks to me about traditions. Like, "I'm certainly only where I am in my recovery but I really try to stick with the traditions. Would you be willing to discuss tradition 1 with me? I know im new but I feel this group could benefit. My understanding of that tradition is that ___________ and I wonder if we could divvy up the time in a way that is representative of God's principle of equality. Do you have insight in that?"
Something like that.
BTW u don't know if its tradition 1, I forget!
I pray first and ask God to help me have a spirit of tolerance and no expectations.
From her opinion and your opinion you can reach a higher opinion.
We can be defensive people, especially when we have "status" in fellowship. That comes from places of pain as we know. Still, someone had to have the gentle, kind courage to stand up for traditions.
Oh, one other thing. This new Sponsee of yours, well I know this disease and unless I was there I don't really know what was said to her. I imagine you got her right into the Solution about her complaint. And I never burden a Sponsee with gossip. In those affairs she is "another group member". She may well have been spoken to exactly as she says but a) we're not sure and b) others opinions of her membership doesn't matter. Good thing you know your stuff and can try to help this group! Best of luck!
No your share DID help me. I was able to stay calm about this very volatile topic today because of your parting words as I went out the door...stay calm, dont fight back,..filled me mind when I was under forceful provocation today.
Did want to let you know that the newcomer hasnt called or been back so she obviously took the easy path rather than the whole "try 6 meetings before you decide if alanon is not for you."
Whoever suggested trying to talk to the person and then the group, if not then moving the meeting has no clue what the principles or the program is about. Terrible advice. For all meetings you have to take a group conciense , and you cant kick people out or exclude them for being in the place they belong to get help . You need to pray for her, accept her, do some self inventories, and make motions to change the meetings rotations and / or format , and see if the group agrees to pass those.
Welcome Moira. This group has gone through some changes during the last few months but glad you are here. I had a similar experience in my home group. One member thought they were "in charge" and would call you out , even if you were leading the meeting. Yes this person needed prayers and recovery and definitely needed help. The way things worked out is that due to a number of circumstances, I needed to change groups. I now go to a weekly zoom group with a bunch of very wonderful people. Electronic meetings are always an option if in-person groups are scarce.
Speaking of controlling behavior-
I personally am tired of my so-called healed & whole friend going on and on about how great AlAnon is and you need alanon yadda yadda yadda when she has been going for 18 months and her blaming everyone else but herself for her own behavior is at the absolute worst! Its like she found an entire tribe of people that are giving her permission to take zero REAL responsibility for her actions and then keeps reassuring her and enabling her to deflect personal responsibility for what she has done to myself and others all in the name of her not having to be blamed or accept the negativity anymore
Its truly nauseating.
Shes still a liar, a manipulator and a truly wretched narcissist and now she has this program to defend her actions.
She blames her parents, her three ex-husbands, me, and other people for the way that she is.
Is this REALLY what your program teaches??
There is a reading in the ODAT page 276 that speaks directly to this subject.The page speaks of a" managing old timer who ruled everything with an iron hand" The new member objects to this format and searches for a meeting where members are permitted to grow.