Am I giving up too much??? - Al-Anon Family Group

summerlee82 · Newbie

Am I giving up too much???

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

You may become THAT woman if you don't walk away. It is tormenting for most to live with an active alcoholic/addict, but some do with the help of al anon. I strongly encourage you to listen to your concerns...without taking his inventory, it appears as though there is an addiction to alcohol. Without recovery, your life with him will become more miserable and talking with him will go nowhere but put you further into crazyland. You are like Alice falling down the rabbit hole. Having said all this, it is important that you recover from codependent patterns that have attracted you and keep you addicted to him. Al anon is a place where you can begin to understand the addictions of alcohol and codependency and unravel this difficult relationship between the two of you. There are usually meetings in many places and various times of the day. There is a hotline number, but I don't know what it is. I wish you well; keep coming back to this wonderful forum for support. There are also online meetings through this forum twice a day. Good night....I am tired and having a hard time typing and keeping my thoughts coherent!

-- Edited by PP on Saturday 1st of June 2013 09:39:16 PM

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Summerlee and welcome to the board from this part of the Pacific...Got a moment? Read back in time to the shares/vents/stories of the newcomers who have also arrived here looking for support from others. Look at the similarities in the shares...Alcoholism is alcoholism...predictable and normally abnormal. Your boy/man friend knows and knows that he knows that he has a problem...he has known it for a long long time. Alcoholism is a progressive disease and it takes time to progress to the point of his drinking manner now. You are the most recent person to enter his life and then find out that he has, you have and you both have a problem.

Alcohol is a mind and mood altering chemical...he drinks...he alters and the person you fell for in the past is now falling all over the place himself. In fact the person you fell for is no longer there when he drinks...he becomes altered. In order to be around that kind of paradigm a friend and spouse would need to have two or more different methods of living...living in reaction to the drinking and it's consequences. Since the disease is progressive it only gets progressively worse. You get to decide whether you want to manage your own life or you want to manage a life altered by alcoholism.

From the AMA definition on alcoholism; Alcoholism is a four fold disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions; it can never be cured and can only be arrested by total abstinence. Alcoholism is a fatal disease, it is progressive in that if the alcoholic does not stop the drinking it will progress the alcoholic will be faced with 3 decisions...sobriety, insanity or death. The alcoholic affects everyone they come into contact with...family, friends and associates....

these contacts become as affected as the alcoholic or worse because they do not have he anesthesia of alcohol to block out reality and therefore face the problem wide awake. They also have the same three choices....serenity, insanity or death.

Are you giving up too much...alcoholism demands everything from you. If you haven't given it all yet progressively it will eventually take it all.

I know the above personally cause I was born and raise into the disease on both sides of my family. I am also a long time member of Al-Anon because my qualifiers for membership are not only family members and also the women I drank with. I am also a member of AA as a former carrier of the disease and to round it out I am a college graduate on the diseases of alcoholism and drug addiction who formerly worked in the field as a behavioral health therapist with others...addicted or just affected.

You're not giving up to much...yet. Remember the choices...serenity...insanity...death (I've witnessed it all). The ladies suggest the Al-Anon Family Groups in your area and from my own experience that is where serenity lives. You'll find the hotline number for Al-Anon in the white pages of your local telephone book...call that number and find out where and when we get together in your area. Keep coming back here also...MIP is family with a wealth of love, support and Experience, Strength and Hope. ((((hugs)))) smile

-- Edited by Jerry F on Saturday 1st of June 2013 11:14:59 PM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

NO!!! It wouldn't be a huge mistake at all if that is what you know is the right thing for you to do. Although only he can decide if he is an alcoholic or has a problem with alcohol - the signs are all there. The disease of alcoholism is a progressive disease that afflicts and affects all persons involved with a problem drinker. His nightcaps are beyond nightcaps in my estimation. But it isn't him who is asking for help. You are and I'm so glad you are and have come to this board. We recommend face to face Al Anon meetings for friends and family members of persons concerned with their loved ones drinking. It is also suggested that you attend Al Anon for awhile before you make any major decisions. It is good that you are not moving in with him and you are seeing very, very clearly what you need to see. The fact that he is defensive about his drinking tells me he knows he has a problem, too, but that doesn't mean he wants to do anything about it. Those of us in Al Anon have learned that there is nothing we can do to cause, cure or control another person or the disease of alcoholism in a loved one or friend. We can, however, get help for ourselves that can be invaluable to us whether or not our loved one continues to drink. Even if you decide you simply don't want to continue your relationship with him right now, it would still be a good thing if you attended Al Anon meetings, read all you can about the disease, and continued to visit our board. Others will probably respond to you and give you more information and feedback at this board, too.

You were so wise to reach out for help in this circumstance. As the disease progresses, we who are not problem drinkers begin to experience our own difficulties that will get worse without help like Al Anon, too. Good luck. Lots of hugs. You are doing the right thing in not keeping this a secret and reaching out to people who understand the disease and how it affects us.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

I am glad you found us here at MIP! I hope you can make it to local face to face meetings in your area, it sure does sound like you qualify. The book "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews was so very helpful to me. Sending you love and support!

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

You described a person that is beyond alcohol abuse. He is alcohol dependent. I kept it all together in many ways until it all unraveled (with my own alcoholism). I am thinking he would probably have DTs if he stopped drinking and would probably need rehab. If someone's drinking is that big a problem and noticeable when you don't live with them - when you do, it will be worse. Just like he is the only one that can decide he wants to recover, only you can decide if this is a "deal breaker" in a relationship.

I can tell you that many alcoholics put on a pretty good act for everyone else. Probably he does love you very much - BUT, when they "have" you, they drop the act and show their true colors. His moody "I don't want to talk to you" periods will become screaming rages or him taking off out of the house until the wee morning hours.

So he has learned to function as an adult in many ways but has told you loud and clear that he has no other self soothing and coping skills other than to drink. He has pretty much claimed it is the only way he can "relax." Umm...that is a SERIOUS problem....My drinking progressed to that point also and everything that used to "relax" me took a distant backseat to drinking. I stopped maturing and was emotionally retarded. I freaked out and needed to drink every time I had stress, an argument...whatever. Then I got so used to not feeling things that I drank whenever I felt anything.

So...what appears to be a put together person on the outside is not when you dig just a little bit deeper. He is a busted up on the inside alcoholic with no coping skills for stress. In the long run, (just speaking for self) I could not deal with someone that couldn't face problems, talk about issues, and handle emotionally charged situations. A normal person doesn't wig out on you and say something "triggered" them and they have to go drink. Vicious cycle there because eventually, everything "triggers" them and they can't cope and then because they can't cope with emotions, they avoid the situations causing more problems to drink over. The inability for him to even talk about your concerns in the relationship is another HUGE indicator of this pattern.

I see a lot of "red flags" here. Early on in relationships, there is not quite as much of a need to discuss emotional challenges because you both are happy to just be around each other. After a couple years and then living together - you will want to share a life and settle into more of a "best friendship." This is where many relationships with alcoholics really fall apart and turn bad because they are not capable of that level of intimacy. They are emotionally avoidant/retarded and will start perceiving all attempts to elicit emotional support and closeness as "nagging." THEN (as in my experience also) the nonalcoholic or the partner of the alcoholic will amp up the requests, and become very upset thinking "Well I guess he just didn't get it. I will have to make it MORE clear how upset I am." Then you have a toxic pursuer/escaper thing going on and it will make YOU feel like the crazy one. He's already dong that to you now and you are chasing him. What about in 10 years when you are chasing him down after he runs away to "unwind" after you "stressed him out."? By that point you will be 10 times more frantic and he will be 10 times more avoidant and difficult and progressed in his alcoholism.

You might be thinking "Oh, that's not him." "He's more loving and sweet" as you read what I'm writing. Well, I was loving and sweet at times too but alcohol was my master and alcohol came before everything. Alcohol robbed me of most things and kept me from being that sweet and loving person eventually as it will do to him (or likely has done in many ways already). It is so sad to see someone that is addicted. It is cunning, baffling, and powerful because you see such potential and it would seem like a no brainer....just give up the drinking. But...it's a SERIOUS problem that requires a serious surrender and commitment to recovery to get better.

He may eventually choose recovery...He's showing no signs of that now and has clearly drawn a line in the sand "Take me - take my alcoholism" You have every right to say "no"

It will feel terrible and sad but be careful and pay attention to your inner voice.

Watch out for the rationalizations "But he is perfect in every other way!" It's minimizing. Almost like saying "He's perfect except for that serial killing thing." Exaggeration but you get the idea. It actually would not be an exaggeration to say "He seems like a great person but for his insideous and potentially crippling physical, emotional, and spiritual sickness of alcoholism is a problem." THAT is the truth. That is what alcoholism is. He sounds like a tortured and wounded soul. I would bet he might even eventually come back to you either drawing a line in the sand about his drinking again or crying with promises that he can stop or will get help...blah blah blah.

Are you in for this?

-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 2nd of June 2013 06:53:01 AM

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Very glad you found us.

No human can drink that much without doing damage to themselves. This is every part of their body. As one continues to drink like this their body starts breaking down, and their brain will start to show it too. In other words, sooner or later the red flags will come. This disease continues to get worse and worse.

We can stay with them and things will get worse. We can stay and use skills to live with an addict or we can leave. He is right, we all want to be accepted for ourselves, their choices are none of our business.

I am so sad for you. I know how it feels to meet someone and be in love. It has nothing to do with him, its up to you. Can you acceot him as is? Believe me living with him will be even tougher.

Please keep coming. hugz, debilyn

Ms S · Veteran Member

welcome to al anon
I amso grateful to have al anon in my life because it has given me an avenue for growth which is stunted in my relationship with my alcoholic partner

the idea of al anon is not to give advice beyond saying 'keep coming back' and instead we share our experience, strength and hope( ESH)

that said I bet all reading this who have lived with an alcoholic partner want to say to you ' dear lovely special caring women, save yourself! Save yourself from the confusion, the loneliness, the shame , the isolation and the grieving that can accompany a relationship with an A'

I knew my b/f had a problem with booze as soon as I met him. I persisted with our relationship always saying to him and me that going forward the booze would be a problem for me. I went to one al anon meet years ago and this pissed the A off so I didnt go again!! my crazyness. I gave an ultimatum, he stopped drinking, (didnt work on the underlying stuff though)
he resumed drink as we were moving in together and still I moved in. my crazyness. We have lived together now three years and they have been TOUGH. Thanks to al anon I have a sense of myself and a feeling of hope and growth despite the stalled and painful relationship with the A. Right now I would like a magic wand to spirit me and my cats to a our own place and I would like the strength to call time on this sad relationship. I may stay, I may go. I am a sadder and wiser woman than the one who moved in here!

please know that whatever you choose to do al anon is there for you. If you stay or go people in al anon will not judge you for it. good luck with your journey x

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I am so glad Jerry and pinkchip responded to your post, and, I wanted to thank you for your post. Reading their responses always brings new insights to me from the perspective of a male recovered alcoholic. Read over and over again the wisdom they have provided. I can speak to the co-dependent piece. I used to believe that if I could only get away from the alcoholic, my life would be great...wrong! If I did not have my nutso co-dependent behaviors I would not have attracted an addict/alcoholic. I lived my life thinking I could fix people, and, oh I would be so special to everyone. Through al anon and other work I have done, I saw that all of my relationships were co-dependent..female and male. I so needed to heal and become a more empowered codependent...I believe co-dependency is a hard wiring or an archetype. My work, then, is to acknowledge it is a part of me, love it and live from the empowered co-dependent part of me which is loving, loyal and committed (and so much more). Keep coming back!

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Summerlee - you've already received some great responses, I will add mine. Before my "real life" experience with my ex-AH, Alcoholism was just an abstract thing out there - Alcoholics were the guys in dirty garb standing on the freeway onramps with signs, alcoholics were the guys living under the bridge covered in newspapers to keep warm. I'd not really experienced personally and first hand what an alcoholic was or what alcoholism meant to those surrounded by it.

Oh my ex was charming and wonderful, fun to be with, fun to have around, easy-going, happy, etc.... well, that is the side he showed me until he had me and my heart was involved; we moved down the path to living together he rushed towards marriage and once married, well, I was stuck and trying every alternative I could to help him through the rough patches that seemed to spring up everywhere. He lost his job (got laid off with a bunch of others but not hired back because, unbeknownst to me, he was hostile at work, (need for a beer fix altered his mood)). Unemployment meant he could start drinking at noon, or sooner, no job to go to; helped a friend feed cattle in the early hours, me thinking it is good for him to stay busy and physically working, not knowing that after they were done drinking coffee they moved to beer - the descent into insanity was quick, he would get mad and leave for a few months (later to find out about the women he hung with each time) and never accepting blame for the blow-ups. We would try again, once he went to drinking N/A beer, but that ended up blowing up on him of course because theres still alcohol in it and it secretly made him mad that he was drinking it because of a woman.

Two years after marrying him, 18 months after losing his job, he left for the last time - it became the last time because I found this website and understood that it was always going to be the same unless something changed. This site is filled with people who dearly loved the person who put them here - the person who drove us desperately to find some solution to the insanity we were living in. So many times when newbies come here asking the sorts of questions you ask, I want to scream out at them, NO - RUN, don't walk, RUN away!

Knowing what I know about it now, if I thought I wanted to be in a relationship with someone, I would watch how much they drank, what happened to them when they drank, if the drinking seemed to be something they needed, if the drinking seemed to be the only thing they wanted to do, if every event HAD to be about drinking or include drinking.

You don't have to live with him to have a relationship with him.

WorkingThroughIt · ~*Service Worker*~

The lie I told myself was, "Rhis is the best it can get for me."

I settled for less than God wanted for me because I couldn't trust that if I kept working my program I would become the person I wanted -- eventually. And yes it's a lot of hard work and it takes time.

i learned after burning myself over and over thar I was setting myself for pain all my life again and again.

time came when I needed to go through the steps real thoroughly in a way I knew was available to me, it included a 4th step which included an ENTIRE sex conduct inventory, for one.

it was awesome. I am 47 years old and have no plans or designs for a relationship. And I trust myself. I know sometimes men are just doing what they do, it is up to me to protect myself.

so I just continue to try to grow in Gods vision for me and I stay out of sex conduct embroilments until the day Ive

grown enough to let God bring it to me, if that be His will for me.

and I no longer compromise my Spirit to get things I want, or that I see others have. I'm a child of God, my life is different than most.

i remember an old boyfriend who would get into my bed at night and turn his back to me. The pain was awful. I never have to go back there again And I certainly won't accept that for financial security.

Geo · Member

Summerlee,

These responses are some of the best I have read on this board. I am divorcing my AW. Actually, she filed first. Everything above is so so true. What you are feeling now will most assuredly be a hundred times, no, a thousand times, worse should you move deeper into this relationship as it currently is. All the things you described I experienced for 10 years, all getting progressively worse with time, till it wrecked my life. I am a physician and we have two children. The "white picket fence" future I had envisioned is gone forever.....it never was and never will be. I am sure you have dreams of what your future should be.....I think you already know you will not realize them with an A. Yet you are still unsure??

This is very important for you to realize. There is absolutely nothing special about you or him that will mitigate the disaster that is sure to come if you move in and he continues to drink. I hate to be so blunt, but to me reading your heartwrenching story, the life of what sounds like a wonderful, loving, caring creature is in peril, so forgive me for being so. They say in AlAnon to not give advice and such. But you are a person asking for advice, so I shall give you mine.

You ask if you are making a huge mistake if you walk away. Reread your story then look again at the question you just asked, and try to do so as an outsider. This is your crazy thinking, which WILL get worse, and which is why most of us need AlAnon to free ourselves from the disease of alcoholism and find serenity.

-- Edited by canadianguy on Monday 3rd of June 2013 02:10:33 PM

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.