Am I dating another A? - Al-Anon Family Group

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Am I dating another A?

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Two separate questions here, as you know, and both of them seem very important.

As to whether he is an alcoholic -- I think our intuition is pretty well tuned after we've been down the road with alcoholics. Initially I had trouble figuring out if my A was an alcoholic because he was so insistent that he wasn't that I accepted his reality instead of believing my reality. But I noticed the cues early on and of course I was proved right. So your guy has beer at all times in the garage fridge and he has a way of putting people off the track about how much he's drinking, and he slips away to the garage a lot, and he blows hot and cold emotionally and is sometimes unavailable and sometimes sort of insistent. And his ex is an alcoholic and his kids are sensitized to drinking. So the choice of who he really is seems to be between a full-fledged alcoholic and a heavy drinker with some worrying characteristics. People who haven't been in drinking circles might well see both of these as too worrying. For me, with a lot of experience I never used to pay attention to, it's like the old Magic 8-Ball: "Signs Point To Yes."

The other question is your own drinking. I think we're all wise to pay special attention to that, because we're so inured to drinking (having been around it way too much) that we can lose perspective on what's normal. One thing you know about this guy is that he's attracted to alcoholics. Another way to think it over might be to say, if you were out with a new guy and he drank a bottle of wine on his own over the course of a day, would you say, "He's just a light social drinker" or would you say, "Hmm, this might be some heavy drinking, I'd better think about this further." The kids are used to keeping track -- (no wonder, those kids have undoubtedly seen and experienced a lot) -- the kids are worried. You might look at the questions AA suggests (http://www.aa.org/subpage.cfm?page=71) and see if that's useful. One thing I know is that there's no instant dividing line between "drinking moderately" and "drinking too much." Since we have seen the immense power of alcohol, and the way it causes denial in the most well-intentioned people, it's probably wisest to give ourselves a lot of room between us and heavy drinking -- I mean be more cautious than the "civilians" would be. We know how terrible a price people pay when alcoholism "catches" them. So we want to make extra sure we stop way, way short of "drinking too much."

-- Edited by Mattie on Thursday 16th of May 2013 07:14:05 AM

katfshh · Senior Member

I have a question. Off and on for the last year since my AF and I broke up, I have dated a friend, ex-boyfriend from High School. He even went on vacation with me and my son last summer as friends. He stayed in a cabin on the cruise with his two kids. I stayed in a different cabin with my son. Since that time, it never seems to work out with us, we date and then something goes wrong and we don't connect for several weeks or month. Then he starts up with the mushy stuff, I miss you, my life needs a woman in it, you and I have so much in common, even to the point via text of "I love you, marry me." I gave it another shot a few weekends ago. But, he comes on super strong and then backs way off to the point of not texting or calling. Which puts me back to the, mind set he must be drinking when he is full of promises... I drink wine in social situations and sometimes a couple of glasses when I am home alone. I know I belong in Alanon. But, by anyone's standards that knows me, I am a normal drinker. Not an A. Well, this guy said that his kids mentioned that I drank a lot. Now keep in mind he keeps his garage refrigerator full of his favorite beer at all times. But, he opened bottle of wine for me, I don't drink beer. I was over there for about 8 hours on a Saturday. In that 8 hours I drank a bottle. That is about 4-5 glasses, but it was the entire day. I did drink on the cruise last summer, but heck he was too and we were on vacation, and I have never ever felt self conscious about my drinking. I don't get drunk. My own kids have never said a word to me about drinking. His kids seem to keep track. I know their mother is an active alcoholic with a mean personality when she drinks. OK, what he does, as I observed, is he keeps his beer in the garage, he keeps a regular cup in his hand, like a coffee cup with a lid. He slips off to the garage refrigerator and refills it and throws the can away. No one can tell how many he has had or count how many cans unless that went to the outdoor trash and counted. The kids are 10 and 12. From what I could tell he probably had a 12 pack while I was there, but I don't know for sure, but it was a lot. He brought up to me that his kids noticed I drank that whole bottle. The whole thing is throwing me off. I feel like he is probably and A, and for some reason trying to point something out to me about what I do. a whole bottle is lot for me, but it was 8 hours and just a party kind of day with good old friends and fun, swimming etc. Does anyone see a red flag here, or me being in denial or anything?

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

Katfish,

In reading your post, I'm struck by the hot-cold patterns of unavailability in the man you are dating. He seems unable to sustain a normal, healthy progress in a relationship and his thoughts, words, and deeds don't support each other. You describe that he needs to have a "traveler", a drink in hand at all times. Your relationship with this person has a lot of focus on his drinking and you describe feeling off balance.

It has been helpful for me to do a step 4 with a sponsor to clarify relationships and my role and further define my boundaries.

I hope this helps- wishing you the best.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm just going to come out and say what I'm thinking here - if there was a serious problem that occurred while camping with the children - would adults who have been drinking have the necessary presence of mind to care for the children? I think it is a problem to be drinking a whole bottle of wine in 8 hours time when one has responsibility for a child and I think it is a problem to be drinking beer all day while worried children feel the need to count drinks. Whether you stay with this guy or not, I do hope you follow the suggestions by some of the posters here today - for your sake and for your children's sake.

katfshh · Senior Member

Thank you everyone for the replies. Very helpful. I think when I am in a social situation and people are in the party atmosphere I will drink. I was not responsible for any child. My older kids are all adults, and my youngest is 14. He was not with me and I was not driving. I am not afraid to enjoy myself, and I drink appropriately. I could see how a bottlecan seem like a lot to some people. It's one glass every other hour. Even for my height and weight, which is small is not enough to get DRUNK. I was raised with an appreciation of wine, my family is from Greece. My father did drink more than I think was normal and was functional, so I am sensitive to drinking as well and am attracted to the A guy. I found the situation odd, because I was surprised that his kids paid that closely to what I as doing. His style is also frustrating me and I feel red flags with his drinking and hot and cold personality. I think that you are all correct though for me to also be careful and think about how and what I do as well in any drinking situation. I would certainly hope that at age 49, I don't ever cross that line. No one in my family is an alcoholic, I have three siblings and we have wine at family gatherings, but no one drinks in excess. My father has since passed away. My mother doesn't drink more than a single glass of wine, if that. I know for some people that have lived with an A they really hate alcohol, and would never have any. I get that. Thanks again for the replies. I think I am going to back way off here from this guy.

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't think it is at all odd that his children said something about your drinking the wine. And I think perhaps it has less to do with you than you think. Their mother is an alcoholic--they suffer from alcoholism and are hypervigilant about these things. It was my 12 year old who noticed how much vodka my AH was putting away back before I realized he was an A. And they are probably just as aware as you are of how much their father drinks. And he is their father, and perhaps their only refuge with an obviously alcoholic mother, and they may be afraid of him or of his reactions if they say anything about his drinking.
Speaking about your drinking is a safe way to voice some of their anxiety. And it is possible that they may be worried that here comes another adult into their lives who may turn out to be unpredictable at some point.
Poor babies.
And of course he didn't have to tell you about what they said. He's trying to misdirect your attention from all of his drinking. Glad you are deciding to pull away. It doesn't look as if it is going to get any better. (You can always tell him you have decided to regroup and work on yourself.)
In answer to your first question--the topic: Quite possibly. It is a professional hazard of nurses--they tend to be drunk magnets.
Others have addressed the question you didn't ask. I will say I have never felt the need to justify or explain anything about any drinking I have ever done. And it wouldn't hurt my feelings if somebody said I had. I would either know that I hadn't had too much, or the one time I got drunk, I'd have been agreeing with anybody--"Yes, I had three drinks, too close together, and I am a 'cheap date' and really cannot drink worth a darn. And you won't ever see me do that again;I felt as if I might pass out, and I hated it. What was I thinking?" And it wouldn't have hurt my feelings.
Blessings,
Temple

katfshh · Senior Member

Temple wrote:

Others have addressed the question you didn't ask. I will say I have never felt the need to justify or explain anything about any drinking I have ever done. And it wouldn't hurt my feelings if somebody said I had. I would either know that I hadn't had too much, or the one time I got drunk, I'd have been agreeing with anybody--"Yes, I had three drinks, too close together, and I am a 'cheap date' and really cannot drink worth a darn. And you won't ever see me do that again;I felt as if I might pass out, and I hated it. What was I thinking?" And it wouldn't have hurt my feelings.
Blessings,
Temple

Exactly. I have never felt the need to justify, explain, or make excuses for any time I have had a drink. People do drink in social situations, not everyone that drinks is an alcoholic. Just like not everyone that loves ice cream is an over eater. Sure in my younger days, I have had my moments of drinking too much and felt like crap! Lesson learned.

And back to this probable A. His 12 year old son has recently decided to never stay his his mother's again. He said he is too mean, drinks too much and yells all of the time. I also like what you said about the fact that maybe they brought up my wine as a way to safely talk about drinking with their father.

Thanks again for all the feedback!

katfshh · Senior Member

RE: Am I dating another A?- update ugh

katfshh · Senior Member

Update

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