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I was a month ago on the right path, and got there by telling myself: There is NO FUTURE with this person, stop thinking about him. Then, I did things for me without reaching out to him, and sadly: I stopped communicating how I felt about him to him. No 'I love you', 'how was your day'. I just stopped caring. It felt like moving on to me.. and I guess to him too b/c he started changing himself. This has always stuck with me, from "getting them sober" ... "If you care about them, they don't have to." The bad thing was, the second I moved on... he got serious.. and then I went back to supporting him and believing he could do this.. which puts us back here eventually. This time I won't do that, i am so angry this time that it would be impossible for him to convince me of ANYTHING at this point. I will walk away from this relationship before I go back to accepting his drinking. So again, now I am starting today all over like the alcoholic in 90 days, to step away from this situation and move on with my life.. and not give in to any promises, or be hopeful, or want anything from him or this anymore. I won't budge, and if he wants to change he can.
I don't threaten him, I just remind him we don't have a future, and then I just back off. I realize a threat makes me weaker, b/c I obviously won't execute it. And backing off and cutting him out is as much as I can do right now. Thanks for the book suggestions, Can always use those. ((Hugs))
-- Edited by giraffe13 on Tuesday 7th of May 2013 12:57:54 PM
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Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.
I don't know what to say other than I am frustrated and disgusted at the fact that I am back in the SAME PLACE with my AB like 3 months ago. He went through this I can control my drinking phase, 14 times over the course of 2 and a half years of dating, and finally in February he decided to go to AA, which then turned into I have a problem. It is bewildering to me because at this point he shared with his family which was unheard of, that he had a problem! His dad, him, and I talked on the phone all night until 7 am one night about this issue. He cried, said he may even need to go to re-hab bc he was lying, and screwing up left and right, and disgusted with himself and what it did to our relationship. * Moment of Clarity. * After what seemed like a month of everything going fine now he is having a few drinks and already sloppy wasted two nights this week. And telling me, he never said he would stop drinking completely. And the "90" days thing isn't " like that." It isn't about not ever drinking.
I want to punch him in the face today, but I calmly tried to explain to him last night that "we have no future" if he doesnt deal with this and I cannot be "resonsible for his life and reality. He needs to face that himself."
These are the key words I keep using, and when this happens I just back off, do my own thing, and literally stop thinking about having a future with him. That part isnt a lie. I just basically cut him out of my life to the point where he feels desolate and like he isn't in a relationship anymore. Words do not work with him, and I am so sick of this circle that at this point, after going so far to even look at rehabs and now all the way BACK, I think I have had it and I just want to say, "F*** this, get out of my life."
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Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.
I have found I can never make idle threats with my A. It has to be.... mean what I say, say what I mean but never say it mean. When the A hears something that is not followed up on......things will remain the same. If I want change it starts with me.
I will never again give threats or boundaries I can't uphold.
Whether you stay or go.......or he's drinking or not. What are you going to do?
Take care of you....
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
I hear a lot about what he's doing and not doing with his own recovery .. how are you taking care of you? I hope you are able to get support that you deserve through counseling and/or alanon meetings. Living with an alcoholic is to much for most of us. For me I sure couldn't do it alone and mine is no longer living with me. I have heard the same song and dance as you have described and what usually has happened is there has been a point of crisis there is the "come to Jesus moment" the crisis passes and then so do the whole ohhh what do you mean I have a problem stuff. The best thing you can do for you is take care of you .. some of the best books out there are Getting them sober .. which is not about getting the A sober as much as it is about taking care of YOU!!
It IS a vicious circle and until things start changing in the terms of something changing .. nothing changes. One of my favorite slogans is .. if nothing changes .. NOTHING changes.
Hugs P :)
Keep coming back ... it gets better when you find your own recovery and let him do what he needs to do.
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
from "getting them sober" ... "If you care about them, they don't have to." The bad thing was, the second I moved on... he got serious.. and then I went back to supporting him and believing he could do this.. which puts us back here eventually. ------------------------------------------------------- You don't need to threaten him. You just need to do what you have to do FOR YOU. Alcoholics have radar. They know when you are serious. They know when you have reached the end and it scares them. Then they will have to start thinking about what they are going to do.....and what they do is work real hard to change you. They need to change your mind. So they put on a good act and get you acting right.... then they can go back to what they really want to do. Unless he changes himself, you are stuck on this merry-go-round.
Check out the web sites of getting them sober and try to find the merrygoround called denial.
Does he live with you? I'm confused. Are you going to tell him you "have no future" but keep him living with you? You make it sound like you are going to play a "we have no future" game hoping he will change again. If you say "we have no future" that should mean end the relationship, otherwise it's games and it's going to get you back to the same spot.
Of course he is full of crap and his ongoing rationalizations for drinking are ludicrous. Nobody commits to 90 days of AA or treatment with the plan to relapse. That is just absurd. Yeah, AA is a day at a time program, but a consistent desire to stop drinking the basic tennet. It is about not drinking again ever. It's nuts that an alcoholic will distort everything to avoid the simplest and most obvious thing (that they need to be abstinent from alcohol completely). That is legitmately maddening. I guess I just wanted to say that if you are saying you are ready to hop off the train...Hop off for real. Otherwise it's not too different than him saying he's gonna quit drinking and not doing it.
we do not live together, but I realized that many of the other things I say to him make it worse and are uneccessary. When I moved on and he panicked , and wanted to talk: I simply answered from the heart that moment and said: We have no future like this. Your problems are not my problems and I have no hope right now for the future.
That seemed to hit him pretty hard. And Yes, of course it was radar- b/c he slammed right back into his bad behavior when he got my " support and attention and HOPE." This was my first experience with radar guys. Now I know better. I am starting over this time. I read the merry-go-round of denial and I realize that I am in Act II. I must change myself to have a hope for any change at all. Othewise I continually contribute by provoking or enabling him. I will for the second time attempt to do this and steer clear of the radar and keep plugging along. If its good for me its good for him too. I am really shocked though at the stance the merry go round article takes: Wives play an important role in the A recovery b/c they are the ones that hold the key in act two to make A change, any change that will disrupt the continual circle. regardless of employers or friends. And they can impact his chances for recovery. I always believed it to be contrary. Nothing can positively impact recovery. Other than to quit arguing.
Pink chip- I did say that to him again b/c it was the only dominating thought in my head. I didn't say it in the heat of an arguement or in a threatening tone, but more of like - "I dont know what to think about this? " I just am backing off for now. without any demands on myself to do or say anything about our relationship and where it stands. We both live alone, and are in our 30s. I wanted to move in together by the year end and was hoping he could pull it together but im done living that fantasy.
-- Edited by giraffe13 on Wednesday 8th of May 2013 03:25:16 PM
-- Edited by giraffe13 on Wednesday 8th of May 2013 04:19:00 PM
__________________
Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.
detachment is a real hard one. For me recently I was really overly concerned with issues at work which often I do not have control over.
I over reacted, obsessed and then felt terrible. Basically I can go in a spiral where I can be swallowed up by situations.
I think it is basically very very hard to cut someone out of your life in one big swoop. Obviously that happens sometimes for people but the nature of being with an alcoholic is usually pretty "sticky". They can have many good qualities.
I also understand very much the anger and the rage at dealing with someone who is in denial and wants to negotiate sobriety. Of course there is no negotiating sobriety.
I have been to a lot of AA meetings and basically no one really jumped up to get there. For many of them they had to get to the place of really acknowledging that they had no where else to go and for some people that takes time, years even.
There are a lot of ways to detach from people. Detach in anger, detach in frustration, detach in grief and there is a detaching in serenity. None of us get it right at all first time. Some of us have to do a lot of practice in detaching. The maxim for me is what do I have control over. I have control over me and thats pretty much it. I have no control at all over other people.
What I can do of course is set boundaries. I set boundaries on topics, what people can ask me. I set lots of boundaries, renegotiate them. Ever noticed if you set a boundary how people try really hard to break it. Thats really whats we are up against with an alcoholic. They will go all out to break the boundaries. That is why it is so essential to have support, care and understanding from people who care and understand.
What is "detaching with serenity?" I was very angry right after I walked away from him, and saw this as the road I was starting once again. So at that moment, I detached with anger. Later in the day I calmed down and still stuck to : I need to detach! But as he reached out to me, wishing me a good day etc. through text from work, I responded dryly saying to myself, This is ALL I CAN DO right now .. hence I think at that point I was responding to him at least but it changed to detaching with frustration and sadness. Then later in the night he took a well needed jab at me to hurt me and make me feel insecure about other women being a problem. I did not respond, and it was SO DIFFICULT. Then, I was angry again. Today, I asked myself:
What is detaching with peace? Does that mean I respond to him today when he tells me he loves me? I dont feel like responding at all, but today, I DO feel calm and peaceful. I am not nervous, anxiety ridden over losing him, but I do not feel like talking to him. Obsessing over how we treat them is part of our problem- so I try not to focus on the guilt I feel about ignoring him. He deserves some tough love. HOWEVER, I do want to know how to handle these situations, as I do not quite understand detaching with peace? ? They are quite pushy with the compliments, requirements to respond to them pronto on the phone, all the while passive aggressively putting you down in away way possible that they " didnt even realize. " its just a push and pull of games, and it makes me want to not respond to him at all.
I just want to understand what that means.
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Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.
What is detaching with peace? Does that mean I respond to him today when he tells me he loves me? I dont feel like responding at all, but today, I DO feel calm and peaceful. I am not nervous, anxiety ridden over losing him, but I do not feel like talking to him. Obsessing over how we treat them is part of our problem- so I try not to focus on the guilt I feel about ignoring him. -------------------------------- You say YOU are at peace today..... but you are concerned about how to treat him. Worrying about him is the frustrating part because we are overly concerned about THEM. That is the detaching with frustration as opposed to simply worrying about your own peace and not worrying about how it will be received by HIM. It doesn't matter how anything is received. It only matters how you feel when giving it. He has to worry about his own reception. The rest is out of your control.
Do you remember all the times when you treated him in peace but he was in a "place" in his mind where he turned it all around and it got all ugly? Well, you weren't in control of that either.
That's why we talk about keeping your side of the street clean. Don't do anything you think would be mean. Stay in peace.
Worry about YOU. Let him and his HP worry about him.
-- Edited by maryjane on Thursday 9th of May 2013 07:58:44 AM
Detach with Love, Detach with Serenity or Detach with peace......
Here what I think about it..
I love my son and I tell him so. I see my son if he's sober I talk about my day with my son. I listen to his day I can go out to dinner with him or take him out to dinner I can go shopping with him Many things I can do on my terms with my son. I can have boundaries and still be around him.
DETACHMENT
If he calls drink I hang up. If he calls in crisis I hang up If he needs sometime and answer is NO......complete sentence.... If he is capable of doing it himself....the answer is NO I don't confront him I don't fight with him I don't look for him or check up on him. I don't nag him to seek help. I don't tell him he is destroying his life
I let go and God......I stay on my side of the street when it relates to the disease. It gives ME peace
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
He always just manages to get the best of me, or put me in situations where I get so nervous I dont know how to handle myself. I feel sad. And I am trying. Each moment or day is hard, in making decisions that seem easy for other people .. in relation to communicating with him. It is a sticky struggle, that turns my stomach.
He kept calling me yesterday, pushing me. And I did not want to answer. I was uptight, and not ready to "handle myself" in explaining anything peacefully. I barely did the day before when he showed up unannounced. I answered, and told him that this is his addiction, his problem and I don't want to be manipulated. I sounded so angry. And of course he played the victim. I then said: I do not feel this angry every day, since wed when we spoke, I felt peaceful and calm. It is only when I am on the phone with you discussing this that I get this angry.
Last night he wanted to talk on Saturday, and texted me that he has 'concerns and feelings to share.' (Which usually is his time to manipulate me.) I said I was not sure I wanted to speak saturday in person, and he insisted that phone was not kind or right. I did not relent. I said - I wasnt sure and I understand he has things he wants to share. I just felt that he was complicating things to keep drinking and I need to go to bed for now.
Today, I was going to just leave it alone, and contact him saturday to give him the time to speak. Maintaining my quietness and peace of mind. He decided that he needed to poke at me today and he went from that kind and hopeful attitude of having that talk on saturday to being extremely manipulative and twisting what I said on the phone to him about my peace: (it is almost like he knew I was so angry at that moment, and he can get me to explain and defend myself staunchly.- which i always do. getting sucked in.) This is what he said :
I hope your day is going well! Stress free and happy. You deserve to be happy! Ive been thinking about how you said you have been happier and stress free since you have been away from me. Have a nice weekend!
I am just disgusted with him, and it took everything in me to not write back : lets take some time off. I just wanted to sock it too him. But then, I realized that this reaction is a momentary one, and later the effects are much harder on me. Which could cause me to go right back to him. I need to make THAT decision from the right place. Thank you so much for pointing out that we must keep our side of the street clean!!! I simply responded: "ok, so you decided you do not want to talk saturday? im sorry you misunderstood what I said. Have a nice weekend."
I feel like I didnt overly explain myself, I am at peace , and i told the truth. He can feel like he hung himself on that one.
__________________
Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.
I don't know what to say other than I am frustrated and disgusted at the fact that I am back in the SAME PLACE with my AB like 3 months ago. He went through this I can control my drinking phase, 14 times over the course of 2 and a half years of dating, and finally in February he decided to go to AA, which then turned into I have a problem. It is bewildering to me because at this point he shared with his family which was unheard of, that he had a problem! His dad, him, and I talked on the phone all night until 7 am one night about this issue. He cried, said he may even need to go to re-hab bc he was lying, and screwing up left and right, and disgusted with himself and what it did to our relationship. * Moment of Clarity. * After what seemed like a month of everything going fine now he is having a few drinks and already sloppy wasted two nights this week. And telling me, he never said he would stop drinking completely. And the "90" days thing isn't " like that." It isn't about not ever drinking.