The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My AH showed up to a counseling session with his therapist and his son with a BAC of .14 at 9:30 am. He ran into a car in the parking lot. His therapist had seen it happen and waited to see if he would mention it and when he didn't he confronted him and made him take a breathalyzer test. He told him that he had to go put his info on the car that he hit and give up his keys or he was calling the police. Fun times! This morning, I get a call from a concerned ex-neighbor who said that he has been out in the yard doing yard work staggering around and barely able to manage walking up steps. She said that she almost had a heart attack when he came out with a chainsaw and started pruning the shrubs in that condition.
I have separated from him and detached as much as possible but what in the world do you do when they are truly endangering themselves and others.
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"Just being there for someone can sometimes bring hope when all seems hopeless." - Dave G. Llewellyn
I've been having those same thoughts as well. I think for me I have to really really really check my motives and my first primary purpose is to make sure my children are safe. I have to address the issue of what is my business and what is not. I will neither cause a crisis or prevent natural consequences from occurring. Where I get frustrated is why do I feel it's my responsibility when other people are witnessing things of this nature, and since they are physically witnessing it why aren't they calling the police?? Why do I need to get sucked in to these things???
If I witness something in terms of I know my STBAX is driving drunk or so on .. I do feel it's my responsibility to call the police .. I have to witness those things and he has to be acting out in those terms for me to take action on it. If someone else is having those issues then THEY need to act on those things. My STBAX was driving with no insurance to the best of my knowledge as of this past week, .. now .. I'm addressing that issue because he already has a ticket from the police in this regard.
Outside of that he's got to find his own bottom .. unless he calls me telling me he's going to hurt himself .. I don't know that it's my business to come in and fix it for him.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
About 26 years ago, I woke up in the local nut hut, with my head shaved, with what looked like green baby diarrhea all over me. I had been in a black out for two days. But hey, that doesn't mean I wasn't doing anything productive in the midst of it! LOL
The story is (I hated when someone else had to tell me what I did) that the thought suddenly crossed my mind that the side of my house needed to be painted. So I went into the garage looked around and found four gallons of different colored paint, mixed them all together, and came up with a horrible pukish, poopish greenish color. But I was mighty proud of my ingenuity!
I opened the garage door and discovered it was pitch black dark outside. Well, now what else could I possibly do? Then came this really spontaneous great idea!! I got out a flashlight and some duct tape. And I duct taped the flashlight to the side of my damn head!! I did a really good job of it too! Duct tape going in every direction across my head, with the flashlight looped into it really tight! That flashlight wasn't going any where! I was sure of that! Again, I was pretty darn proud of my almighty ingenuity!
I got the ladder out, drug it to the side of the house, leaned it up against it, climbed up it and started my attempt at painting the house. Problem was, from what I understand is that I climbed up it with my back to it, so I did a number of butt slides down it, spilling the paint all over me on the way down, but I was not going to get discouraged and deterred from getting the job done. Neighbors heard my ruckus, and watched from their windows as I was trying to perform this great feat. After the 4th or 5th butt slide to the bottom of the ladder, hitting every rung of it with my skinny ass on the way down, one of the neighbors got concerned and called the police. The report was called in at 3:27AM.
They took me to the hospital and ER tried to use a variety of solvents to get the duct tape off my head and out of my hair to no avail, so they had to simply pull it out, and cut it out to remove the flash light from the side of my head.
Everyone said I could not understand why they were making such a big deal out of man trying to paint his house! Heck the neighbors should be glad of my home improvement efforts!
They moved me over the pysch ward and put me in a room that didn't have a mirror because they thought I might have a heart attack when I saw what my head now looked like! What a mess! Where the heck did they learn how to cut hair?? And when they discharged me after 3 days they would not return my flashlight to me! BASTARDS!
You would have thought I literally "hit my bottom" during this event, but nope....Pinkchip is right they can involuntarily commit an alcoholic that poses a danger to themselves or others. My house didn't get a drop of paint on it, but my butt hurt like hell for about 2 weeks!
Ya think the phrase "Alcoholic Insanity" can be found in this story?
John
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" And what did we gain? A new life, with purpose, meaning and constant progress, and all the contentment and fulfillment that comes from such growth."
Hugs to you, I do VERY much understand. My A climbed a 12ft extension ladder with a chain saw & 1/2 gal of vodka bungy corded to himself to trim & take that tree down. It was quite the neighborhood scene. Hold onto you sanity & serinity the with a tight grasp. I'm thinking of you & praying for you as well.
And Hollywood gets a fortune for making movies about lives that are fiction while we live lives that are real and never make it to the box office. Although the reality isn't funny, reading that a man climbed a 12 foot extension ladder with a chain saw and 1/2 gal of vodka bungy corded to himself to take down a tree has hit my funny bone. Unless people live the lives that are all ours, they'd never believe what we see in relationship to our As choices.
I suspect during your years together - especially leading up to you separating, hearing these things caused you to be horrified and embarrassed. As more time passes, I would not be surpised if your response to hearing these things just turns into "Yeah. That's why I left him."
I know in Florida there is a law to involuntarily commit a substance abuser who is seriously posing and imminent risk of harm to self and others (Marchman Act). However, in Virginia (the state you live in) it would appear these laws are less clear though apparently they were ammended in 2008. I know you are talking to lawyers regarding divorce and settlement issues. This may be worth discussing because someone in his family would have to initiate this commitment procedure. Here is what I found:
The revised statute amended the language of both prongs of the previous civil commitment criteria. The new statute provides the following (several key phrases discussed below are in bold): After observing the person and considering (i) the recommendations of any treating physician or psychologist licensed in Virginia, if available, (ii) any past actions of the person, (iii) any past mental health treatment of the person, (iv) any examiners certification, (v) any health records available, (vi) the preadmission screening report, and (vii) any other relevant evidence that may have been admitted, if the judge or special justice finds by clear and convincing evidence that (a) the person has a mental illness and there is a substantial likelihood that, as a result of mental illness, the person will, in the near future, (1) cause serious physical harm to himself or others as evidenced by recent behavior causing, attempting, or threatening harm and other relevant information, if any, OR (2) suffer serious harm due to his lack of capacity to protect himself from harm or to provide for his basic human needs, and . . . (b) all available less restrictive treatment alternatives to involuntary inpatient treatment have been determined to be inappropriate, the judge or special justice shall order that the person be admitted involuntarily to a facility for a period of treatment not to exceed 30 days
ADD TO THIS:
A persons "status" as a substance abuser per se is not a sufficient predicate for commitment but (a) acute and chronic medical complications of drinking could lead to an increased risk a harm to oneself or others, and (b) substance abuse can complicate other psychiatric illnesses, thereby contributing to an increased risk of violence.
***Now, considering all that info, it would seem that he may meet the criteria for involuntary committment....especially when you look at that part "B" of the last bit of info I posted. It does seem that he has dual diagnosis because from all you have written, there seems to be a profound depression going, delusional thinking...maybe even a more serious mental illness IN ADDITION to his now seriously progressed alcoholism. If he is not eating, not taking needed medications, at a total recluse stage...That probably is enough to merit dual diagnosis for depression and alcoholism. Furthermore, substance abuse DEFINITELY seems to complicate his other psychiatric problems and also from what you have written before, it does contribute to increased risks of violence (animal cruelty - screaming tirades scaring you and your family members).
So...It's something to consider. BUT - you'd have to weigh out the benefits versus the cost (some may be literal costs). I don't know if if costs money or how much to initiate such a proceding. In Florida, you can initatiate this for free. This may cause him to hate you forever but he may already be at that point...dunno. It may give him enough sobriety under his belt to make some rational decisions but again...dunno. These types of consequences eventually do pile up and they are what tends to tip the scales to sobriety IF is to ever occur.
Otherwise, the intervention will happen when he hurts himself and/or has to stay overnight in the hospital. That will throw him into DT's and he will have to go through detox again. They will recommend treatment again and again and unless there is a criminal component involved, he will have the right to refuse the treatment/rehab.
So....all of this is a lot of work and a lot of investment of time and energy from someone you are really moving towards detaching from. You'd have to ask yourself is it worth it? Especially when you consider he's likely going to get himself to his own bottom without you intervening (even though death could be the actual bottom he hits sadly).
I had many phone calls from others in reference to my husbands actions when we were separated. Frustrating! I left him so I wouldn't have that chaos in my life anymore.
At first I would react. Then eventually I realized, what is the point.
Then I'd get ugly with the people calling, then I realized, this is not my problem.
Finally it clicked, they can deal with it if they want to. So my response became: I understand your concern. I'm not sure what to advise you to do in reference to what you saw my x doing. I was in the middle of something when you called, I'm not able to talk right now.
Appreciate the responses. Thanks for all the info pinkchip. You are so right about all the reasons for and against getting involved again. I'm going to talk to my son today and show this to him. He has kind of picked up where I left off. He has a bit of contact with AH's family where I am pretty bitter towards them at this point. AngieP, thanks for the laugh this morning. I needed it. I'm so tired of all of this neverending crap everytime I start to move on. Get well or die. Sorry if that is cold but it's where I'm at right now.
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"Just being there for someone can sometimes bring hope when all seems hopeless." - Dave G. Llewellyn
Guess I'm not as cold as I thought because I feel bad over that get well or die comment. :( Frustration talking. What I mean is get treatment or die. I'm not in a good place today. May have to try an online mtg. again. None here for the next few days.
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"Just being there for someone can sometimes bring hope when all seems hopeless." - Dave G. Llewellyn
I can so understand your pain and concern. When I received those calls from neighbors I suggested that they call the police as I was too far away to help. it worked
John
Love how you connect and share your story!!! I too have witnessed some pretty insane activiites during my life dealing with alcoholism.
Glad to provide a lil chuckle but just wanted u to know you are not alone! Many of us have live very similar insaine situations that you would think no one else could identify with. Johns flashlight episode reminded me of when my A duct taped 2 flashlights to the lawnmower (because he worked 10p - 6a) and mowed the law in the dark... It's looked like it was mowed by a drunk... Oh, that's right it was!
The BRIGHT side is that same man is now 4 months sober at age 40 and a lifetime of alcoholism & treatment centers. I "think" he finally has it. He's working an awesome program.. Nothing like I've ever seen he do before, he can finally think, process, make some good decisions, etc. he is a new person. I hope one day we might be able to live together again.. But only time will tell.
