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I was just talking to someone yesterday, and said I could never make out I was ill to claim for benifits because I would not like to cry wolf and be punished for it!, They replied that makes me think of your relationship with your husband? and went on to say is that how I see life?
He said that at our age we're not punished by the actions of others outside of the law, we allow ourselves to be punished! in his opinion!
This has struck a cord with me about punishment and the treatment there of, and what I have alllowed people to do to me without really knowing that what they were doing to me was abusive, and there in I became the unknown victim of their failings if you like, people that haven't lived with alchoholics don't understand that this isn't a conscious choice it happens over time, it is in my mind a form of control and submission, abuse comes in many forms, silence and being ignored is terrible, shouting and agression, and withholding afefction, I guess what I am asking really is? am I normal to feel like this.
I think I need more coffee today! I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the other persons comment.
This is what I took away from what you said .. the other person feels you subjected yourself to someone else's abuse and created your own "punishment"? You are stating that it is a slow process and no one really notices until they are in the mix.
If that is where you are coming from then this is just my opinion take what you like and leave the rest.
You are both right. While what I went through is a slow process I did allow the other person to abuse me. I didn't notice that my thinking has become distorted and I actually did not see that I had other choices. I have to own the fact I did allow unacceptable behavior, I did allow the mental and emotional abuse. I bought into what was sold to me. It didn't happen over night it was a long time coming and probably started before I even got into the relationship with my STBAX. Actually I know in my case it did.
I don't know if that makes sense or not or what you were trying to convey. That is just what I took away from your post.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I think I am a little confused. I thought I read your first statement to say that you believed in a Karma of sorts. Not lying about something because it will bring it's own retribution in time. A belief that "What you put out comes back to you.."
This could tie into accepting unacceptable abusive behavior from an alcoholic, in a positive way You did not react to the bad behavior, used alanon tools, took care of yourself, did not engage and trusted HP to handle the outcome. You are living by alanon principles.
On the other hand I know that when I examined my motives for accepting this behavior I found that I had my own hidden agenda and thought that , if I pretended to accept this behavior and pretended to be understanding,accepting and non aggressive I would manipulate the situation and get my own way.
This is very different from alanon. Alanon always suggest I examine my motives, respond to a situation and not react and be honest, open and willing. and say what I mean , mean what I say and not say it mean
So I guess to answer your question, being in an alcoholic situation, we do try to handle the insanity by making our needs invisible , hoping that sanity would be restored. Since so many of us resort to his same behavior and this is the foundation of alanon I would say it is pretty human. Normal now that is another case
Well...Society really socializes little girls and women to be "good"...to follow rules and to be helpers. All throughout school and growing up I do think it's a common female experience for girls to be getting punished for what bad boys are doing. This would include the elementary school class not getting to go outside cuz the boys were bad...family not going places cuz brothers were bad....etc. So, I do think being punished for others' actions and feeling punished for others' actions is ingrained to a degree - especially in girls/women.
That leaves women in a spot where they are already conditioned to put up with a lot and they might think it's normal and/or okay. Hence, when your significant other breaks the law or has to go to rehab, jail due to drug use or alcoholism or related behavior the automatic thought might be "Oh here we go....we are getting punished." In actuality it's just him being punished, but enmeshement and past experience would lend you to think and view it as a "we" thing.
Not sure if this is what your post is about, but one of the beautiful things I see in alanon is women (and some men too) stepping out of these victim roles, handing back illness to those who it belongs to, and not accepting consequences for the actions of others. If someone else is floundering and figuratively gasping for air - we can stand on firm footing while breathing fully.
What you describe are other people looking to dump their pain into you. It's not just alcoholics; the world is full of predators. Tighten up your boundaries. A silence is a good response. Alanon tools of all kinds. Believe it or not it's human. We ALL do it. So what are you getting from it? When you identify THAT and stop looking for it, you will be free. See, we all want something (until we recover)
It's interesting all the varying responses in here.
What I read into was that your friend was essentially saying "There are no victims, only volunteers."
That doesn't mean as a volunteer we're going in with our eyes wide open and saying.. "Hey! Abuse me! I want it!" But it does say that we tend to accept a lot of unacceptable behavior out of fear - fear of losing the person and being alone, fear of financial difficulties, fear of bodily harm. We unfortunately volunteer ourselves for continued unacceptable behavior because we don't take action to stop being available to experience that behavior.
Hi there. Thats what ive been going through. Punishment,and all other sorts of abuse.