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Believe them. I have spent soooo much time believing what someone tells me that when they show me who they are I can't wrap my pea brain around the fact they are probably being honest about their actions vs their words. I have had a good laugh at myself over the past couple of days. One of them is the fact that now that the STBAX can no longer blame me for the "drinking issue" it has come to light when he lies it's now my fault. This apparently is some of the stress and putting him in a bad place he has referred to over the weekend. The lying is the disease it's a choice too. He does make a decision unconsious or not to do so. I'm starting to see it as a reflex. The ironic part of this is the fact that I'm not asking questions or making personal demands. It's observational. I guess in all honesty .. it was a question I asked the night before .. completely normal observation.
He's not into sharing with me because it causes him problems. That was the text I received and my initial reaction was to feel hurt and confused, my stomach did that funky drop, I did respond back nothing inappropriate I had originally asked about a concert he had gone to and was wondering how it was, .. so that response really blew me away. My response was how is sharing about a concert causing him issues? I thought about our interaction the night before and realized that something I asked him and his immediate response, I speculate was actually an untruth.
It really did show me in this situation that nothing for him has changed and how much of me has changed, .. I no longer believe his words, .. I now am really listening with my eyes. That also means I have to take some responsibility of just the fact I really went back to believing what he says vs what he does. I have to keep that in mind to loose the expectation that he can have a normal conversation with me that doesn't involve an untruth. It's fear based completely, just as fear based as my reactions with my anger.
He wants to be friends which made me laugh .. what kind of friend doesn't share about a concert or lies about going tanning? Not a real one and it just further reminds me that this is a business transaction at this point that anything I involve on an emotional level is wasted time. He has nothing to give to anyone .. it goes far beyond me. It doesn't mean I need to be nasty or angry. It just is, and I will treat it as a professional business relationship and leave it at that, it has brought to light my own denial of the situation and acceptance that I deserve soooo much better today. I can't undo the fact I deserved it as well in the past .. I don't have to wait for the future either. I can start being good to myself through my own actions, words and treat myself with the respect, dignity and grace that I deserve today.
It's still a crooked road I walk at least though my legs feel so much steadier and without the support here and in Alanon I don't think I could have seen or told myself the difference in that moment and been able to NOT take it personally.
I have so much to be grateful for today, and that is what I'm choosing to focus on. Thanks for letting me share.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Pushka this is a rocket science recovery post...the deep kind. For me it's the perception of what huappens after I work the program and how does that fit with me. It is how I learned from my sponsorship and the elders of Al-Anon also.
I have as of yesterday also did "the walk" with a family member who isn't in the program and who years ago decided that AA wasn't for him. What is to be expected from a person like this is known for me because I can remember what it was like for me when I hadn't worked a different program than the one I had before recovery. Doing the walk requires commitment toi the new experiences and awarenesses to arrive at clearer more easily acceptable outcomes for me regardless or inspite of how the other individual react to them. What I resorted to with this person was an inspection of my wants and needs and my past experiences with others involved and after that inventory work I arrived at a "No...I will not be there" response. I've already had experiences with this other person from over a long time that they don't hear the no and don't accept the no for their own justification and would press to get their own needs met. They would not accept "no" and after I said it...I discussed no further and dropped communications completely rather than to continue to discuss so that he "get it" and be okay with my response.
It was I who had the experience and memory of what has happened over a long period of time. He lacks the awarenesses and experiences that I have and in that light he lacks the tools to accept "no" and he didn't and then attempted to one up and justify that he had the stuff...strength and whatever to forgive me. That wasn't necessary had he been able to just "accept" and not take the no personally. However it's done and No continues to be a complete sentence for me which I will use when appropriate and necessary in my life.
The program works when you work it is a promise for me. I work it and I don't work it to hurt the feelings of anyone else...Keep coming back and thanks for the higher lesson.
What a Great Share & What Awesome Recovery... I do have to say this week it must be in the Air ;) ...
I too have just crawled over another Hump in setting boundry's, and being aware of being true to myself... So Grateful... I was struggling in a relationship that just seemed to have Me & My Morals in a Twisted Knot a Very Long time! And Like (((((Jerry)))) says... No Means No & Is a Complete Sentence ... Regardless of how they Hear it!
I have those that when told No, they then have to 'Backlash' and throw in "My" Replacement! lol... I Love that, because I said No and Desided Against something, then their sickness is to just get "stirred up" and strike back.. I've Learned to be Grateful for that Chuckle everytime it happens ;) and of course this is regardless of how many times I have said "yes"... But after a Long walk thru the Steps, I have found my peace, and my common ground... I still waver from time to time, but my balance is truly picking up speed!
All my Life I have been affraid of Hurting someones Feelings, or doing so & not knowing it, I lived in "fear" of destroying some, because When My Parents split, for some reason, I Felt to blame! I was the Middle Child of 3 and for what ever reason I carried around for Years it was my fault, and that Guilt has been carried into Every relationship there after ***BEFORE**** Al-Anon :)
So Grateful to release the Burdens of Others to their Own Choices & Journeys.. And Just be Glad in the One I Found Within Me!
Thanks again Pushka... Needed to hear it and just on time as always :) Love & Prayers My Recovering Friend
Thank you for your shares and support, because that whole issue of this is "their sickness responding" I don't have to get twisted up in it, that is fully where I am at. I'm completely willing to own my part. The difference today at least, I don't have to own the whole thing, and I don't need to blame him and give him my part. It feels good to just own my own part, nothing more .. nothing less. I'm being tested, do I really mean what I say? The answer today is yes, .. and I'm sure my motives are not generated for others to hurt, just for the fact I don't have to carry my part in any given situation forward with me. I can own it and let it go. What he chooses to do with his part .. that really is none of my business. As a friend I have tried to be here, .. I don't know how to be someone's friend and not have some kind of trust going on, even Jerry's qualified trust. Today, .. he's shown me where he is at, .. and today .. I just have to love him where he is at. I do not trust him. I trust myself, the God of my understanding and I can allow others to be who they are.
That being said .. I am more than a doormat. I can see Mr Crazy Pants coming for a visit, .. hoping he doesn't stay long and hoping he avoids the upcoming holiday. I just have to let it be and continue to move forward with my own plans. It was a shocking reminder, and it's so funny because it's a God thing on so many levels to remind me that once again .. nothing changes .. nothing changes and I know I was made for change.
Hugs P :)
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Today, .. he's shown me where he is at, .. and today .. I just have to love him where he is at. I do not trust him. I trustmyself, the God of my understanding and I can allow others to be who they are.
Hugs P :)
(((( Dear P))))
Beautiful response.The quote that I have copied sums up your spectacular growth.
Well Pushka - Relationships and break ups/divorces are complex. One the one hand, I can see how a huge burden of anger and resentment would be lifted if you could just be friends with him. On the other hand, that opens you up to his crazies and being hurt in similar ways again and again. It's like testing to see if the stove is hot still...and getting burned again. Yeah, you have healed up quite a bit, he can't hurt you the same way this initially hurt cuz you are mostly "over" him but he can still rent space in your head that is better spent on you, the kids, your future.... In an ideal world you could divorce and nobody would be the bad guy. It's gonna probably take longer if that ever happens. I found that with my ex-A, since he never has gotten sober, I can only be acquaintences basically. I can't stand to get that close to his mess. It's too much of a mind screw and it sets me back asking all the same questions that have no answers such as "Why doesn't he just stop drinking?" "Why does he always surround himself with losers, thieves, and addicts?"....I don't need to know why he does that cuz he's not my problem any more and it's his task to understand himself and mine to understand me.
Well, I like what you right at the end: nothing changes and I know I was made for change. Yes, we were. For me, that's been the saddest part to accept, that my AH doesn't want to change. It's almost shocking that the A's in our lives seem to want to be miserable and negative and jerks. I mean, who really wants to be that way? I know that, for my AH, he doesn't 'want' to be that way, he just doesn't want 'enough' to change. Maybe it's too much work? Maybe it's too painful? What you're learning, as well as all of us are, is that it's their walk not ours. And, we can choose how much of their lives we're willing to share with them or how much mental space we allow them to take up in our heads. We have choices, they have choices, and that can bring us serenity. Thanks for sharing, girl!
ILD - they don't see themselves as negative and miserable, they project it onto you to not own it. They don't see a need to change as much as a need for you to accept them and stop trying to get them to change. This is the mind of an addict. They are too emotionally immature to even accept there is a difference between you being upset over unacceptable behaviors versus just being a complaining and rejecting person of them. It's not a matter of "not wanting it enough." It's being so deluded that they can't even recognize what "it" is. Furthermore, alcohol takes away those yucky inferior and frustrated feelings a lot quicker than actual admission of bad behaviors and dedication towards change.
Literature states that some of us are granted with a divine moment of providence in which we can see what sobriety might offer us. When this moment of clarity occured for me, then "wanting it" did come into play. Prior to that, I would have told you I "wanted" all sorts of things but I would have been blowing smoke up your arse because my "wants" were really me wanting others to pander to me and wanting to manipulate people, places, and things.
What pink said about wanting and then truly being willing to do the actual work to get what I want. Totally different statement, I can want all kinds of things to be different, does my willingness to make those changes happen match my want of things to be different? Usually for me, pain needs to be my motivator. When the pain out weighs the emotional payoff, I'm going to do things differently. Stbax the motivator may be the same however he doesn't think the way I do. That is his stuff to deal with, that has been what alanon has given to me. The detachment to see where I stop and he starts. It's no longer "our" issue. It's his. I have my own issues. They are not exactly the same and I can see that now. It's so nice not to be angry, because of the kids I have to find a way to maintain my serenity and still deal with him. The trick being not to get sucked in to his disease. It's a slippery slope. I'm doing the best I can and it's all I've got. Before Alannon I would have been a basket case now I can function. It's healthier for the kids. It's better for me. Whatever crazy he has going on it's no longer for me to own. I've really enjoyed this thread!! Thanks!!! :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Great share and well said. I know what you mean here. I have had a bit more contact with my ex ah because my son was staying with him. I realised he is speaking a different language from me. The brief texts and calls are so tense and strange. He seems either friendly and cheerful or angry and agitated. I can fall into the trap of relaxing and I speak to him like he is a normal reasonable human then wham suddenly he is offended and angry. I thank god I no longer live by his crazy view of life. I choose freedom from him every time.x
Wow Pushka, you said some things which really resonate for me. My recovering A "Friend" (lover) has stated that he wants to be friends but i can't ask him how a concert was either. I have said the same thing to myself many times "What kind of friend won't share this kind of basic info?" "Also i'm finding the secrecy he exhibited in active Alcoholism to be undiminished even tho he is sober and working very hard on maintaining that thru AA and therapy. I understand the whole reinvention principle but do not understand why that seems to exclude basic respect.Which i deserve as a human, aside from the love, devotion and tenderness i've shown to him. Trying to fight off the "victim head" and it's tough. Some of these posts have helped fill in some of the blanks and i'm extremely grateful for that. I guess, for me, overcoming fear is a huge factor in this and letting go and letting God is my goal. Thanks for listening.. appreciate all of your contributions.
