"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I need to have "The Talk" with ABF

Raven Juniper · Senior Member

Hello again everybody... I was wondering if anybody out there would share their advice for how to have a successful talk with an A about the future. I don't know that such a thing exists in reality, but I guess I'm wondering how to express my feelings and views on my situation with ABF in a way that will somehow make it through without sounding confrontational. At this point I'm questioning my own sanity and feel so alone. I would like to enter into counseling with him, if he will commit to that. It's most likely too early to bring up rehab to him, so I'm hoping couples' counseling might make him feel more receptive to healthy communication. Thank you...

dponlyme · Veteran Member

No wonderful advice here but want to wish you luck. My aw sees every conversation confrontational that involves her drinking habit. My only advice would be to go to counseling yourself even if he won't. It's been very beneficiial for me.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Raven

I tried to introduce relationship counselling into our lives while AH was still drinking and he could not have been more defensive and abusive. The good thing that came out if it was that I carried on working with the counsellor on my own - she was someone who I could have my WTF moments with and at the same time she very gently helped me to build up my self esteem. AH naturally objected to my keeping the counsellor on (so I knew I was on the right tracks!) and then, lo, when he stopped his drinking he asked me if we could now have some joint sessions.

I think that Mattie's description of the best type of conversation is spot on. I have found that my best efforts to convey my view/concerns have been when I keep it short and to the point and talk about how I am feeling and I leave the 'you' word out of the conversation altogether. (btw AH still hears blame and gets defensive however careful I am about what I say).

In my case I also found that it was pointless to ask AH to stop drinking or to tell him what I thought he needed. What he needed at that point was another drink! And he is a grown man with the freedom to choose drink if he wants. It took a while for me to realise that I should stop trying to rescue our relationship and start looking after my own health and self esteem. Eventually I was empowered enough to described what I needed to do to protect my self esteem. When I started to follow through on this things started to change for the better for both of us.

Something that has helped me more recently is to lodge the word 'dignity' in the forefront of my mind so that when AH tries to push my buttons I just think 'dignity' and it helps me to sailed right through the flack.

PS I've also doubted my sanity and felt extremely lonely - its natural! For the sanity I checked with friends (or my counsellor) and for the loneliness I signed up for a writing course and I made a point of getting in touch with friends and finding ways to meet new people.

-- Edited by milkwood on Monday 25th of February 2013 10:58:39 AM

-- Edited by milkwood on Monday 25th of February 2013 11:00:34 AM

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Ditto mattie.

Raven Juniper · Senior Member

Thanks to you all for your advice. I have to sadly admit that dignity wasn't exactly in the foreground last night when I had a few words with ABF. He wasn't very receptive, and that's okay. I'm going to seek out counseling on my own and trust in HP that things will work out as they should. I'm also ready on my own to work the steps. I think I will need to do that on this forum, being that in this area there is only 1 f2f meeting once a week, and it didn't seem that the steps were followed. I may go back there in the future, but at this time I don't know that this particular meeting is what I need for my own recovery. Thanks to all of you again smile

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

http://alanon.activeboard.com/t38730205/okay-so-what-can-we-do/

I copied a post of mine from the archives, where Toby Rice Drews makes some awesome points of what we "CAN" do...

My experience is that "couples counselling", with an active A, is an exercise in futility, that will not end well for anyone.

Take care

Tom

Sopes · Newbie

I agree, I don't think that it will be very easy to take him to couples counselling, work on yourself & try to take care of yourself. Good luck to you, I hope it works out.
Talking about it with someone is one of the most relieving things you can do.

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

I can attest to what others have shared in that couples counseling with an active A just does not work if your goal is to "change the A".

As Mattie shared, counseling requires a willingness to be open and honest and active A's are not capable of this as they're full on in their disease.

I attended couples counseling with my active A and we did so with a counselor who specialized in substance abuse. What I got out of the counseling sessions most clearly was that the A was absolutely NOT going to change. That did initiate a positive change for ME, however, in that it seemed to be the final path I needed to take to finally recognize that this was not a life I wanted to live any longer.

So, I suppose if your goal is to see just how stubborn your A is, then couple's counseling is the way to go.

Remember, all of us - if we're suffering from the disease of alcoholism or not - have to want the change ourselves if we want to change. We cannot will it on another human being because it's THEIR life, their body, their mind, their soul - they call the shots for themselves. Coercing someone to change so you can finally be okay only leads to frustration and heartbreak for both parties.

Heather 68 · Veteran Member

I have been in your shoes, my AB gets very defensive and does not believe he has a problem. I have been learning about and practicing detachment, he does not like it. I, however, have alot more peace when I allow his crisis to be his and not allow the drama of the booze into my life. He now has to face the consequences of his own actions. He tells me how selfish I am and whines alot..but its also about my recovery from the effects of his drinking and that is first!!

giraffe13 · Senior Member

I don't have a lot of background to give too much advice in areas on this forum but darn it this is one i do! LOL. I caught this post way late but I would love to share my experience just for variety of thought. :P

When I first realized my ABF had a problem, I found an addictions therapist he did not like b/c the person did not "sit right with him." Then, after a vile 6 months he caved and found 1 himself who took his money for over a year talking to him about his family only. He loved that person and then suddenly stopped seeing this therapist. I'm certain the guy told him the next step was AA or rehab of some sort b/c my boyfriend darted fast from that situation-- no explanation other than he was always booked.

Side note: Before any of this, I found a therapist to help me 1 on 1 to deal with his abusive behavior early on. I kept seeing this therapist secretly during all this time he was seeing this addiction's specialist. It greatly helped me! He backed off on the abuse 70%. When he stopped seeing that addictions therapist he found for himself, he asked to come to a couples session and meet mine. I allowed it, and we started couples therapy.

It was not a bed of roses I can tell you that. The therapist does not deal primarily with addiction, but couples. However, she did manage to somehow make more headway with him b/c HE liked her. And, when he felt that he could not get through to me and she was able to, he began to trust her. In exchange, she had increasingly more power to talk to him about things " he did not want to discuss with me in the room-ie: drinking." He started seeing her alone!! He was incredibly difficult to talk to, would never communicate or be kind, and was pretty nasty when he had to talk about any type of relationship issue, unrelated to drinking even. That cleared up and he made a huge effort. I didnt ask, I was just grateful. When we would have an issue he would suggest we see her. (he trusted she could help. trust was so beneficial) Meanwhile, he was an active drinker. Episodes and Chaos continuing during this, but with al-anon, our private therapy, couples therapy, and reading I kept my home calm and myself together. His final episode I couldnt speak to him it was just too much. He went to see her and finally decided to go to AA. albeit, he started drinking again shortly after, but even in the thick of his denial currently, I look back and say that as much as it did not do a 180 on my relationship, it greatly helped him calm the hell down when he had to discuss a problem, try a smidge harder, and eventually not freak out when we bring up drinking. That's progress.

Where it has not helped is here: he still has "alcoholic behavior drunk or not drunk, hasn't dealt with his personal issues that make him drink or feel low. AND- I realized that he still goes in there and lies to himself and her- about the reality of where we are and he is. If they aren't ready to face the problem, therapy does not bring that to fruition. The most it does in my opinion is calm them down a bit to maybe be able to start looking at it and even that is a long shot depending on the person.

I hope this was helpful. : /

Raven Juniper · Senior Member

Thank you, giraffe13 :) your advice wasn't late, it was right on time:)

giraffe13 · Senior Member

: ) good luck to you and be patient and keep your cool in your sessions no matter what.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"