The material presented
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information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
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My ex-wife (she divorced me 5 months ago but we are dating/reconciling) has been in and out of recovery for years. A little over a month ago she hit her rock bottom (again?) and is back in AA but also seeing a therapist and a psychiatrist. The difference is that she is actually working the steps this time and has a sponsor so I am inclined to believe that this attempt is different than the others. She has begun Step 4 and her sponsor has told her that she needs to cease all sexual and intimate relationships until she has completed the 4th and 5th Steps. When she was drinking she was sexually adventurous and always willing, when she was in recovery our sex life became more mundane and less frequent but still satisfying. Now it has to stop?! I've spent the last two days torn between wanting to sabotage her recovery and/or going out and hooking up with someone else. I don't want to do either thing and I realize that I sound selfish but I can't understand how things have gone from a sex life that most guys dream of to the sex life of a monk! How does our intimacy endanger her sobriety? I just don't understand. Has anyone else had their partner receive similar advice in Step 4? Does anyone have any advice or suggestions on what I should do?
The point of steps 4 & 5 are to find God. How can we do that if other people and old behaviors are still dominating our thoughts?
You answered your own questions. You said you realize you are being selfish. Interfering with someone finding God is extremely selfish. But I understand it; you are afraid to not get what you want and of losing what you have.
If you do the same work you would have the same result she will hopefully have. And then the 2 of you will be able to decide if you want a new relationship on a new basis.
Live and let live. Everyone has to heal before these relationships can work.
God bless.
-- Edited by WorkingThroughIt on Thursday 24th of January 2013 06:19:11 AM
Welcome to MIP! There is alot of experience, strength, and hope here and in face to face meetings. Reread your post - are you really saying that you want her to be in her disease rather then in recovery? With that being said, when my AHSober (he left the marriage eight years ago) was in his "disease" he was in a way more manageable and predictable. So what it said to me was that I was as sick or sicker then he was. Recovery is better for me even though it is difficult at times.
P.S. - I can see how strangers making suggestions about your sex life would be offputting and threatening....and I do understand where you are coming from with this. Just trying to help you see the bigger picture regarding alcoholism, her spiritual growth, and the opportunity that exists for you to grow spiritually here also whether that be in alanon or some other way.
Also - In my early sobriety, I was scared of so much. I used the relationship I was in at that time as a crutch and it was not a healthy relationship. Your wife(exwife...whatever) is probably not so much of a victim here. You also have a right to question what she can really offer you at this point. I was so emotionally needy at that point in sobriety....Can't say if this is the same in your relationship, but I wouldn't want you to get used like that. That's why the recommendation is often for folks in early sobriety to either not be in relationships...or to be very casual, but cordial in the relationships they are in (detached).
-- Edited by pinkchip on Thursday 24th of January 2013 09:51:06 AM
Aloha Sarjint...welcome to the board...sit! stay! listen! learn! practice practice practice...Good to have another guy pop into the room cause the disease of alcoholism has not equal or prejudice on who it takes down. My alcoholic/addict was also my wife. I relate to your post cuase I've been there and done that also.
Learning about the disease of alcoholism help me over time to understand the suggestions of recovery. When I came to understand that alcoholism was a disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions I knew we were in big problems and that huge changes would have to come because the disease affected us on all levels and listening to you now I'm nodding my head. Yes it affects relations and relations affect it...it goes both ways and for an alcoholic addict to even think that they could have what "normal" people have is an illusion. Alcoholism/alcoholics are far from normal.
Want a suggestion that might help? Call the hotline number for the Al-Anon Family Groups in your area to find out where and when we get together and then come sit! inside of our groups. Stay! around and Listen!...there is lots to Learn! that you don't yet know and that you will want to practice, practice, practice that you might have a chance to continue with your wife who is in AA.
Keep coming back here and let us know how it's going.
The point of steps 4 and 5 are to become aware of destructive behavior patterns and then humbly allow one's higher power (whether that be "God" or something else) to start coming in and helping the person change those patterns which have always contributed to alcoholism and other hurtful behaviors.
While doing this searching moral inventory it is appropriate for the person to be focused and to not have other distractions. Much of her steps 4 and 5 also have to deal with resentments and owning up to one's own role in relationship problems. Naturally, your relationship with her and your marriage is likely going to be a major part of that process and her stepping away from you for just a bit so that she can come back to you later on (maybe) in a healthier state is a good thing. There is also a sexual inventory that is typically part of step 4 and it will be very difficult for her to assess whether her sexual behavior is healthy or not or what her motives are while she is busy worrying about pleasing you.
You are not seeing her as different from the same alcoholic, constantly relapsing person she always was - maybe a bit more serious about being sober now.... Her sponsor and AA is viewing her as a vulnerable newcomer whose sobriety is very fragile right now and their only purpose is to save her life by helping her stay sober. Maybe that helps you understand how it's not about you - not about the relationship - and not about sex right now.
If you love this woman, do your best to detach and let her recovery take root. When I got sober, AA needed to take the greatest amount of time and focus in my life. I didn't have much left over....though I did try and have a relationship and it didn't turn out too well.
She is trying to recover from a life threatening illness and AA is her lifeline (not you). Basically, she may appear physically well on the outside, but she's not. It's like pushing the issue of sex with someone who is still healing from major surgery.
She might decide not to follow her sponsor's suggestions...she's an adult...same as other folks choose not to follow their doctors' advice - but I wouldn't push it (no pun intended).
If you really want to be compatible and have your relationship grow, Alanon would be a good place for you to go. She is trying to have a spiritual awakening that will radically change her life. You could benefit from the same. Get on board and stop looking at the small picture of getting your rocks off and sex being the only way to be close to her. If this is meant to be, it will evolve as both of you grow and change. If she gets sober, she will not be the same person she was. Are you okay with that? If not, all the more reason to go to Alanon. Perhaps you do have motives for wanting to be with a drunk woman...and that's not healthy.
So, in the meanwhile - get to know your hand if this lady means so much to you. If she's just a sex partner, move on.
Have you made it to any face-to-face Al-Anon meetings yet?
Some questions you may want to ask yourself: What are your motives for being in the relationship - is it purely the sex, or are there other qualities that you value in the relationship?
Can you consider that intimacy can take other forms than sex?
I get it that sex is important. I know that it is for me, for sure. I see it as another aspect that my body requires as a part of my physical health, else I wouldn't have the desire to do it! The caveat to sex with other people, however, is that they need to be a willng participant. This requires respect on my part for that person's boundaries, and if they don't want to or cannot, then I don't get to push the matter and pester them about it. Well... okay, I *could* do those things, but I know I wouldn't feel good about myself if I did.
I went through a sexless marraige myself. And I recognize how painful that can be. I was tempted myself to cheat because I wasn't getting what I felt I needed in the relationship. But my own personal morals stopped me from doing so.
I did have to come to accept that if I wanted to be with this person, sex just wasn't going to happen. My exA was NOT in recovery, however, so this wasn't some exercise he was doing in the name of getting better with the idea that perhaps after he got better the sex might return. I did come to an eventual decision for myself that divorce was necessary. Lack of sex was just one small part of that decision, however. There was a laundry list of other reasons as to why I decided I couldn't be with this person any more, namely that he continued to be an active alcoholic.
Life is full of choices. There may be other options available to you to take care of your sexual needs that sit well with your morals. I don't know what those might be - that's for you to decide.
But if you do care about the alcoholic, then stepping into some Al-Anon meetings may be the first path to some solutions for you.
My husband is the AH I have no idea what advice he was given about intimacy in Step 4. I have heard that it is not advisable to have a relationship in the first couple of years of recovery, I don't know how this works when you are already married. I felt and feel very lonely not been able to work out what is going on. I know by emotional health us not good, despite sobriety I still feel manipulated. I attend Alanon, most of the time I feel lonely there too as most people are doing the steps and I just can't seem to get started with them. Most days I feel something I can't even describe, my anxiety, crying has gone and now I am feeling dumb and find it difficult to take action and feel motivated.
I want to thank each of you for your thoughts and insight. Some of it was painful to read but all of it was either informative or useful. I have been attending meetings daily and I'm trying to accept that the journey through recovery may not take me to the destination I had hoped for. My eyes are slowly opening to the fact that this process is about MY emotional and spiritual health and the only destination I should work towards is that health, not reconciliation or a return to "the good old days".
