The material presented
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Why am I still having such a hard time realizing that NOTHING I do is going to make a difference? Believe me, I have tried it all - drill seargent, supportive wife, nurse and in the end, separated myself from the situation but still, he tries and fails. Part of me feels so sad for him when I see how insecure and shaky he is but it also makes me furious that he has done this to himself. I definitely feel better when the anger takes hold and I blame him for not being willing to do what it takes to get sober. I tell myself that I know it's hard but people do it every day. That he has made the choice to not get better and I have to make my choices based on that. BUT then, the sympathy factor starts creeping in and tells me that he can't control it. I think how hard it is to stick to a diet. I may mean it with all my heart that I will never eat sweets again, but 2 days later, I am eating a cookie and drinking a Pepsi. Would it make a difference if that Pepsi and cookie were ruining my health, my family and my job? I don't know. Would like your thoughts as I am really struggling with this at the moment.
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"Just being there for someone can sometimes bring hope when all seems hopeless." - Dave G Llewellyn
I echo this pain. My ah is ruining the family. He knows and usually adm to being an alcoholic yet he says, "im not sure I can give it all up...its the only thing that helps"....referring to chronic back and emotional pain. He says the alc dulls his pain...all of itand he doesnt like drugs tht have been prescribed.seems like an excuse and a choice yet at the same time, I KNOW hes in in lts of pain. I willreply more later....i share your frustration
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When all else fails...there is Faith, Hope and Prayer.
If you were a diabetic and the extra cookie a day were threatening your health, you might wisely choose to go to Overeaters Anonymous if you couldn't resist that cookie on your own.
There's also the fact that even if something's not a choice, that doesn't mean it's healthy for you to be around it. I would say that his susceptibility to alcoholism isn't a choice, but his decision not to take care of himself and his loved ones by attending Al-Anon or another recovery program is a choice. And a harmful one.
But say you knew someone who had hallucinations that you were inhabited by the devil and were threatening her life, and therefore she might erupt in mayhem and violence. (As the relative of someone I know had.) You might well feel sorrow for that person's problematic brain. But you would do well to protect yourself from that person, even though the harm she would be causing would be "unintentional." Our first job is to protect ourselves and our children. Our job isn't to sacrifice our lives to damaged people. That's the way I see it.
I also know that, in my case, I kept finding reasons not to leave my AH. "I made a promise." "I want to help him." "I don't want to be the bad guy." "If I stick by him, maybe he'll see the light." "It isn't that bad." But in my case what was really going on was that I was addicted to him and to the chaos. To the "promise" that things would get better.
I have really had to "wrap my head" around my AH's death this month. I left him a year and a half ago because he refused to deal with his alcoholism and untreated diabetes. Though both of these diseases are not curable, they are both treatable. His choice was to not treat either, and he ended up dying from both at age 52. So, so sad for our family to witness.
In reading about your analogy to someone needing to stick to a diet. Yes, it is very hard to work on self-control, but what is even worse is when a well-meaning family member or friends reminds you that you are on a diet or that you are harming your health. I know in my own experience that comments or concerns from these folks does not help me with staying away from sweets. It needs to come from within, not from those on the outside looking in. My best success at losing weight was when I owned my eating issues and lost the weight for me, not for someone else. Take what you like and leave the rest...
I like the shares and after losing someone to this disease I find the questions even larger.
What I noted about this person who succumbed is this. On the surface as his AA friends, family and others struggled to keep him focused on the choices - he himself did not believe it was a choice. His words often echoed the inner belief that he just had no choice, it was just something he didn't ask for and he couldn't control.
Ultimately, that is what killed him I think. The belief he couldn't do it. He just gave in and gave up. Not because he didn't WANT sobriety, but because he just couldn't believe it was possible.
So with that it ultimately lies within the person. Will they ever get to that day where they realize they do have a choice, or will they continue to believe on some level that they do not. This person could tell you he knew he was making the wrong choices but if you listened closely to the other talk, the unintentional talk, you heard the truth. The victim, the unwilling participant. So the truth is that it's both. It is a choice but only if the person really "gets" that.
Aloha WOMFI and others...this is a sooo important post and for me it brings up early recovery in Al-Anon where we read in part the AMA definition of Alcoholism and where I learned that my wife was a sick person and not a bad person. Part of that definition is..."It is a compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body. The alcoholic has lost the power to choose whether he drinks or not". I came to understand why my wife drank even when she didn't want to...openly or secretly and then I came to understand what addiction looked like, sounded like and was like. She often drank when she didn't want to and more than she wanted to and the disease prodded her for more and then her life would go into the toilet and because I was addicted to her as she was addicted to the chemical I also followed her into the toilet. "Alcoholism affects everyone it comes into contact with..." the description goes on to say and as I stood there and counted the victims of my spouse's uncontrolled drinking and using I came to understand....powerlessness as mentioned in the 1st of our 12 steps which originate from AA's 12 steps.
And then my sponsor brought me further along after listening to me recite over and over the liteny of her apparent failings and he asked me a question which helped me so much to underestand even further, "Are you talking about your wife or your alcoholic"? he asked and I came to understand the difference between both. I came to understand which one was present with me at anytime and my hatred of the disease lost it's boundaries.
She drank when she didn't want to. I understand the pain that comes with the alcohol and addictive drinking...the mental and emotional pain and the physical pain and of course the spiritual pain of loss...over and over again. I came to understand that alcohol will anestithize the pain which comes with fear of being taken over by a chemical that I wanted to stop my relationship with and the body pain which also comes with it...the hangovers and the bladder and liver and stomach and more. I am alcoholic also. My wife chased my drinking...she was my drinking partner...that is how we met; the three of us...she,me, alcohol. She was my choice. I was her choice and we were the choice of alcoholism. It takes a power greater than alcohol and ourselves put together.
"Alcoholism is a fatal disease...it can only be arrested by total abstinence and if not arrested it will result in insanity and/or death. It can never be cured and is a disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions.
Don't give up...pass it on and keep coming back. Learn as much as you can to help you change your perspectives and keep your recovery.
To wornout..are u still w ur ah? ,children? I do feel ur pain. Im close to leaving myself ss I gettired of thr loudy choices...and the sfter effects. That said, I stay. I read Jerry fs post and realized I hate the alc part but im deeply connected to the man...the non alc side of him. That post helped me see pt of the reason I stay...its just being married to dr jrckyll and mr hyde is a huge and often painful task and its sure not pleasant and I know I dont do it well. I struggle to sep the husb from the ah...i think I then punish the husb when really its the ah that im angry with....on top of everything else. I find it hard to accept that they cant just say NO. but jerrys post helprd a bit to keep it in perspective. (((( ))))
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When all else fails...there is Faith, Hope and Prayer.
it is so hard living with an active a. i try hard not to feel sympathy because for me that triggers my enabling trait. empathy is my goal. i think this means i must always be kind and not judge and give him the respect to live as he chooses, even if that life is killing him. we are powerless. take care.x
I really struggle with this a lot. I understand that it's a disease and the a has a compulsion to drink, but my AH is extremely intelligent and even in his most sober and lucid moments, he still insists that he doesn't need a recovery program. He says he is working his own program...even after I filed for divorce, he still is saying I am the one with the problem and I need a psychiatrist (btw I see a therapist and he has assured me I do not needs psychiatrist). Anyway, out of all the trips to the ER, the time he overdosed on prescription meds, and all the drunken nights, I have only felt really sorry for him once. It was when I saw him snuggled up with a can of compressed air that he had been huffing. When I told him how sad it was, he didn't understand why I would think that because he thought it was fun. So, I believe he has a choice and he likes his choice. I don't get it, but I guess I don't have together it. I definitely don't have to deal within anymore.
I like the responses here. Being in recovery is a choice that dawned on me like Astrongerme stated. I don't know why it became that way for me. Prior to that moment of clarity where I went to AA, I just could not stop. It took a FULL surrender into AA. It was a radical course of action and I believe most folks can't fathom that or it's more scary or threatening that continuing in their active addiction.
I don't know why I "got it" as they say, but I know it's a blessing. Sometimes I almost feel survivor guilt cuz I know most people never do get recovery.
There is clearly an element of choice once you know where recovery is and how to proceed with it though. I feel like if I relapsed now at 4 and a half years, it would just be a really dumb choice. I would not claim the disease "got me." That would take my role out and prevent me from choosing to get back in the program.
I did decide to go to AA. That was a choice. The active addiction leading up to that was a combo of choices made in the context of addiction - Still choices, but addiction heavily influences the choices.
After being with mine for so long and seeing him in recovery and using. I don't know. I do know he can choose recovery and does well if he sticks with it. He just doesn't stick with it; for a multitude of reasons - some that I understand and others I never will. I do hope that one day he chooses to stick with it. He's missing out o a great girl (our daughter) who loves him very much and even though I'm angry with him, an old friend that does care and wishes him better days.
I tried to post to this earlier and didn't have any luck so I'll try again!!
When listening in the open AA meetings I am constantly reminded of the fact that the active A who really wants recovery has to be willing. They have to really want sobriety so much that they are willing to change everything. God is everything or God is nothing .. there is no inbetween in choosing recovery or it won't stick. They get there when they are suppose to get there too. Each seat bought and paid for at that AA table.
On my side of the street I have to accept that I am powerless over the affects of addiction and the addict is powerless over the drug of choice whatever that is. I really gotta let them work their own program or not work it for me to be ok. I have to be hands off. I also have to accept that addiction is a disease. That disease part is not a get out of free jail card, .. it really for me goes back to the powerlessness of it all. I'm back to the AA promises that states "unconstitutionally unable to be rigerously honest with themselves" they will basically fail at remaining sober. Rigerous honesty, willingness (to change everything about themselves) are the top two things that have to happen to recover. I have listened to many shares that it's taken a LOT of time to get to that point of wanting sobriety so bad that it didn't matter what needed to change. It's more than a choice it becomes the only option.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
You know I used to think I did not have a choice about the people pleasing. I just HAD to give till I dropped. Then I investigated, took peoples suggestions and guess what I did have choices. I just didn't like them.
I have plenty of issues in my life I do not have choices about, illnesses and disabilities. I would love to have ways to cure them but I can't so I have to work around them. I can stay sorry for myself and make excuses or I can take responsiblity for them.
What I do notice about alcoholics and addicts is they take no responsibility and are impossibly self absorbed. They really do not see others at all in the big picture it is only THEM. I have definitely been in places where I did not read cues but it seems like alcoholics go out of their way not to see them and then feel sorry for themselves.
It is really infuritating to be around but at the same time I do have choices about how I deal with that. Right now I choose actively, day in day out to put a lot of distance between myself and anyone I consider to be an alcoholic (that includes some people who I consider drink a lot who might not be an alcoholic but do drink a great deal). I set limits, I put little emphasis on their being emotionally available for me. I look at what they say and what they do and I pay attention rather than be on automatic pilot.
