manic depression and/or alcoholism?? - Al-Anon Family Group

tortuga · Senior Member

manic depression and/or alcoholism??

abbyalana · Senior Member

I don't know. My exah was crazy head using...totally out there. The only time he was sober was after a suicide attempt. He was put on anti depressants and the best I'd ever seen him. EVER. But he went off those two months into it and then snuck back on pot. You could say something direct to his face and repeat it ten times and he would still accuse you of never saying a thing. I know alcohol can cause dementia. I have no real idea of what his psychiatric issues are. Combined with the intense child abuse he suffered, he is a mental mess. It just makes me sad for him. He has moments where you just love him - moments of clarity and lucidity but they were always fleeting.

If there is concern about your a will he speak to his doctor about it? Maybe he will need some meds for a time while his body and mind are working things out?

I send you healing thoughts...for you as you deal with this difficult behavior and try to maintain your own recovery.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Tortuga,

I think you are talking about 'the elephant in the room' here.

It looks to me that many drinking alcoholics take up drink to medicate their horrific condition.

I grew up with it and so adopted a lot of the traits myself.

Much of my life I have "battled" to achieve balance, stability and serenity...

... aww smile smile aww a great topic...

David.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Tortuga

I am no longer with my ah but I know exactly what you mean. My ex is sober at the moment but his thinking is very distorted. It is very difficult to have a normal conversation with him so generally I don't. I believe it takes around 2 years in recovery for the brain to become more balanced and for the a to grow emotionally. I am not sure what comes first the mental health issues or the alcoholism. From my own experience my ah had issues with attachment and abandonment from his childhood and has spent his whole adult life blocking out feelings, all feelings. So he is emotionally stunted. When I really think about it I do not think he knows who he is, so in turn I dont know him and never have. I think about him like a child in some ways. When he is sober, feelings and thoughts that he has been avoiding for years come to the surface of his mind and make him uncomfortable. Non alcoholic people deal with these issues and build up experience on how to deal with their emotions, they get better at it as time goes by. Alcoholics have been in a bubble so when they get sober they are right back at the beginning in terms of their emotions. My ex ah vents his feelings through being irritable and angry and trying to deflect the real issues onto anything or anyone else. He spends most of his time alone now because he is so difficult to get along with. It's sad but until he embraces AA I can't see him ever changing. Take care.x

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I researched this a bit cuz there was a related post on the AA board where an ill informed person tried to state that alcoholism was that only cause of mental distress and dual diagnosis was not real. Anyhow, here it is:

Bill Wilson and the early writers of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous were very careful not to take a stand on medical matters or run at cross-purposes to the established medical society. Still, it would be decades before the medical community would embrace the disease model of alcoholism and accept the difficult truth that a group of erratic drunks had found a way to help people get and stay sober that had eluded science.

They were also quick to recognize that addicts, for the most part, are pretty complicated folks, and despite its success at helping each other get sober, AA alone was often not enough to manage the host of complications the average alcoholic possesses. The reality is that after drunks and addicts get sober, they probably still have some pretty serious issues ranging the entire spectrum of mental health disorders. Simply put, addiction or alcoholism rarely occurs in isolation. Bill W. politely labels this smorgasbord of disorders character defects. Not coincidentally, half the stepsnumbers four through 10are pretty much designed to help the recovering person manage or even eradicate these persistent problems.

Still, even Bill W. recognized that in many, or most, cases, the steps alone would not be enough to bring AA members back to full mental health. He chose his words carefully when he wrote that AA had no opinion on medical issues, pointedly urging members to seek outside help when necessary.

The reality is that after drunks and addicts get sober, they probably still have some pretty serious issues ranging the entire spectrum of mental health disorders.
But how does a person in recovery know that it is time to seek outside help and what type of help should they seek?

Again Bill Wilson can be admired for his prescience. Research has proven that he had it rightthat people with alcohol or other drug disorders often suffer from a bouquet of descriptive acronyms and psycho jargon that has replaced his placid character defectsduel disorders, comorbid disorders, MICA (mentally ill chemical abusers) and substance abusers with SMI (serious mental health illness), to name a few. The newest term is co-occurring disorder.

The percentages are a bit daunting; about 16% of the US population suffers from substance abuse problems. In people with mental health disorders, the number is almost twice as high: 29%. Forty-seven percent of schizophrenics and 56% of people with bipolar disorders have a substance abuse disorder. Almost 80% of alcoholics experience depression at some time in their lives, and 30% meet the diagnostic requirements for major depression. As many as one-third of people entering treatment for substance abuse issues meet the requirements for Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSD).

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

For Tortuga and Amyclaire, your qualifiers are too new to sobriety to definitely say whether they have mental illness or not.

Amyclaire, I hear that type of paranoia in the stories from recovering drug users often. It seems common to drug use and often does go away when they sober up, so I'm doubing it's schizophrenia. More likely due to drug use (not to say it's not possible). Tortuga - It will take months more to tell if your qualifier is moody and erratic due to having no coping skills in early sobriety versus actually being mentally ill. The cutting suggests mental illness, but I can't say for sure. MANY addicts and alcoholics appear bipolar upon getting sober. Many actually do turn out to be bipolar, but not as many as it would seem (because all of them seem bipolar almost upon first getting sober).

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you Mark that was perfect!

Tortuga, A's honestly should not detox alone, it is very dangerous. If he is having all these symptoms I would take him to the er and find a detox for him to get support.

Stopping the using is not the only thing needed for one to go into recovery. It is vital he get help. You are wise to be asking these questions.

I do know mentally ill people I have seen do tend to get into the drug world more. They just don't have the best thought processes. A's are totally different than the non A. They do not think the same at all.

Please take care of you. It would be great if he would go get help to detox. That is the only way he can be evaluated to see if he has more obstacles to deal with.

Hugs!! love,debilyn

Hoot Nanny · ~*Service Worker*~

I have bipolar disorder & not to jump to any conclusions but there are signs. They call it dual-diagnosis. I hope he gets the help he needs through some kind of counseling & maybe there will be some kind of other way of getting him help--he has to want it though.
Take care of you first, Tortuga.
Maybe this won't help you but at least you got it out there.
Kathleen

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you Pinkchip, I needed that info too. Sometimes getting it wrong can be right.x

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Tortuga,

I have had similar thoughts about my AH and those thoughts have made me feel like I'm the crazy one as well. Much of the behaviour does date back to before he started drinking, although the degree of self harm/abuse etc has grown a great deal.
My AH has, in a sober moment, described his drinking as a symptom of depression. But most of the time he denies the depression which means that there is not a great deal that any of us can do to help. As Hoot Nanny says, he has to want help.
So after a few years of googling bi-polar and worrying about AH's mental health I now accept that there is not much that I can do but I do know that I am no good to him or myself if I get sucked down into his depression as well (so easily done). Now I really try to take good care of my own moods. I try to make sure that I see other, happier, people on a regular basis and I try to do things that I enjoy and that make me happy. I have started to become as protective of my own self esteem as I would be of a small child and when AH starts moaning his self destructive projections I step away. If I can I simply say 'I am sorry that you feel bad, I am not able to help you right now. Would you like a hug instead.'
Take good care of yourself Tortuga. Sending a big ((((((hug))))))!

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