The material presented
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I could use some positive vibes sent my way. AH and I have counseling again today and the last time he screamed at me saying, "You tell me the last time you SAW me drunk." and he accused me of cheating on him and challenged me saying, "You tell me why a celibate married woman needs to be on birth control. She must be cheating on me. Why don't you go call your boyfriend?" Then, when I tried to defend myself against crap I don't feel the need to defend myself against, he just gets more incensed and I get more fear rushing through me.
Things at home are OK, we just get along on the surface but when we get into therapy things get crazy. I woke up shaking and fearing what he's going to come up with today. Last time he also blamed a co-workers wife for getting him into trouble at work because she reported him to the president of the company for his drunken behavior on the Costa Rica trip. Apparently he made a few of the wives uncomfortable and his boss confronted him about his 'new' persona.
Anyway, my mom keeps bugging me about why I'm even continuing to go to therapy with him because it's obviously so damaging to my psyche. I told her that now he is going to individual therapy and that I committed to keep going as long as he went to his own therapist weekly, too. Although, at this point, I don't know if the anxiety is worth it at this point.
I remember counseling and being told lots of things that were not true. I couldn't defend either so I quit. I would listen look at him then go on with my concerns about the marriage. If the counselor asked me/him about anything said/feel that was when I could say yes, no or defend when needed. I could never interrupt or defend when he was talking....did no good. I would also ask that he be quite when I was talking and not to interrupt me. Hopefully the counselor has the knowledge to defuse and ask about the the accusing or truths being said. Feelings are hurt right now on both sides I'm sure.
If you and he truly want this to work that crap will go away in time with the help of the counselor.
Prayers are with you today.....Serenity Prayer (((((hugs)))))
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
I love dogs, I went through all of this with my ex husband. He wasn't an alcoholic. He was a manipulative, abusive, adulterer. What is happening here is your AH is trying to control the situation by throwing blame your way. My ex did that with every single counseling session we went through. He always made me feel like I was the one to blame. He said that I was over-sensitive to things, and because I gained weight, blamed me for his affairs. I already suffered from a low self-esteem, so I was an easy victim for him. One thing I need to press...you need to be absolutely honest in these sessions. Do not allow him to bully you into not sharing everything in front of the counselor. If you hold things back, you will not be helping either of you.
It is the therapists job to conduct therapy that does not cause fear and trepidation on the part of the participants!
There are times when counseling HAS to be challenging...I have had individual sessions where I left questioning everything! but I think that is different than what you are experiencing..
You are paying this person, right? I would tell him or her about your discomfort with this process and see what he/she does with it...you have a right to good service! I'd encourage you to ask for what you need in this process....
Yeah, I have been a bit disappointed in this therapist because he likes to tiptoe around AH and the alcohol problems, etc. Although, finally last week he did say that the counseling wasn't going anywhere and that we're on the same merry go round because AH won't allow us to get to the real issues because he keeps changing the subject, blaming, deflecting, putting up walls, etc. So, the therapist required AH to start his own individual therapy for AH to address his anger, drinking problems, and trust issues. AH doesn't trust anyone(including me) and he makes it very clear that humans aren't capable of trustworthiness and that everyone is out to get him. His paranoia shines through a lot when we're in therapy and the therapist has told AH that he is a fatalist that goes beyond normal pessimism but he believes that AH can change. Me? I'm not so sure at this point and I'm tired of living in fear. And, I know I have choices. For now, I choose to stay and I know that I bring that fear upon myself because of my own choices and decisions. I just have to learn how to keep turning it all over to HP and letting go.
From my days in alanon rooms, listening and learning, I have accepted that people are free to say anything and accuse me of anything they please. Their motives are usually to protect themselves and blame another. My job in each of these situations is to NOT REACT, nor take it personally but to respond in a constructive, self validating manner to each accusation.
It takes detachment and a decision to not take this personally . Then I could take that moment where I did not react , pray and listen to the small voice within that will guide our thoughts and actions. With your counselor as mediator this should be a healthy way to discuss issues.
Betty, I do respond as appropriately as I can. Yet, my AH forces the counselor to demand a response from me to defend something I didn't even do. I try not to take it personally but that concept is still very foreign to me and is extremely hard to do when the A comes up with so many reasons as to why I MUST be doing what he says I'm doing and then demands a response to each accusation. It's draining and not worth my time and I wish the marriage counselor would step in, but he usually lets this part get out of hand. He has told AH that he can feel the anger coming from him and that it makes him uncomfortable but that he understands why AH is so angry and wants him to address it in individual counseling. UGH! If my AH can make a therapist uncomfortable, imagine what he is doing to me in there. I'm sorry, but detaching when someone is in your face is easier said than done. Obviously, something I need to work on but I'm not there yet.
It does not sound as if this therapist is up to the job, frankly. I know that of the five counselors my AH and I ended up seeing, none of them were up to the job. One of them I know was an excellent counselor otherwise, the others maybe not so much. (What therapist would accept that accusation as realistic? That's insane.) But as your experience demonstrates, you can't reason with an alcoholic. They are not trying to get better. (And therapy requires trying.) They are actively trying not to get better. One therapist I saw separately told me that she had a policy never to accept alcoholics or addicts unless they were also actively participating in a recovery program. Knowing what I know now, I think that was realistic. Basically, everything I've seen suggests that unless the alcoholic stops drinking, therapy is futile. Not to say that separate therapy for you would be futile. But that an alcoholic determined to stick in denial cannot benefit from therapy. That's my experience. I see that you don't want to be the one to quit and have even more blame aimed your way. It's very hard. Take care of yourself.
I agree with others. Maybe this therapist isn't the best for your situation. I know it's difficult to think about going to a different one and starting fresh. The thought of it can be exhausting. However, if this person isn't helping, you are just spinning wheels.
Sending positive vibes. I know how much hurt the accusations cause. Last week I was told in one hour about 3 different boyfriends I supposedly have. I actually had to laugh. One of the guys that was suggested was a boyfriend of our oldest daughter. The boy was literally just legal. My AH comes out with some very far fetched things. I have come to the realization that it is part of the disease. Please take care of you. If the therapy is too painful maybe another therapist would be a good idea. I started seeing a therapist that specializes in addiction. She gives me great insight on how to make myself better in this situation although my AH isn't willing to do therapy together. That's entirely his choice. I am getting better for me and my children. I hope you know you are worth it!!!!
I never defended myself against my ex. His own behavior outted him without so much as a single word. He would rant, accuse, blame and call me names. I would just sit there quietly and eventually the counselor would ask me "is any of this true?" and I would say "no but he can think whatever he likes I don't care what he thinks of me and I don't feel the need to defend myself against it either".
After about 2 or 3 sessions the counselor got irate with ex and told him "if you want to continue in this session, you will show her respect, refrain from attacking her verbally and talk about YOURSELF is that understood?".
After that, he started to quit going. And I just stopped feeling the need to defend myself against him ever - just because it comes out of someone's mouth doesn't make it true. I know my own truth and eventually it all came out... quickly to be honest. It was clear within a month that he was full of hot air, idle threats and lies and I was the one with facts to back me up.
Take a deep breath and listen to your ex as if you were listening to a perfect stranger. You will find that it's pathetic, not believable and everyone sees right through them. Hugs.
I am with your mother and the numerous posters on here who have said over and over and over that marriage counselling does no good as long as the addict is still doing his drug of choice.
So I wonder just what is it that you are getting out of this experience. Being able to say Well, I kept my word on a promise to somebody who is not in the least acting in good faith?
Life is hard enough when you are living with an alcoholic. I wouldn't put myself through the torture. And that is what is sounds like it is. I hope you are in therapy for yourself with somebody who is really up to the job on dealing with an alcoholic relationship. I think such a person would help you to achieve some clarity.
Feeling shaky and scared when you are going somewhere to get help just doesn't seem right to me.
If your therapist isn't able and willing to set some safe parameters for you in today's session, you might, maybe want to protect yourself? It seems to me that you are wasting your time, and being verbally battered, and the alcoholic is getting off on the power trip. Gag. And of course he is deflecting all the attention away from him.
Good luck.
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It's easy to be graceful until someone steals your cornbread. --Gray Charles
Well, here's an update: After another crazed outburst from AH and a double standard that he threw out there in anger, the therapist decided that we should only do counseling once a month or so. He figures it would be OK to check in with him but he doesn't think he can help us right now until AH works on his issues. Well, thank goodness he finally came to his senses. Of course, AH didn't take the session well because he thinks only 'bad' people go to marriage counseling and that makes him bad. Oh well, I am too tired to care what he thinks anymore. I just need to keep working my program and focusing on me.
((HUGS)) ILD. I'm so sorry the sessions have been so hard on you, but glad to hear that you will be cutting them back, at least for now.
My AH and I are not in marriage counseling (according to him, I "won't like what a marriage counselor has to say" because everything is my fault), but I have set a boundary for myself that if we ever do attend, I will only attend with a counselor who is also a certified addiction counselor.
I have another point of view. I definitely went to couples counseling in more than one relationship which I was in.
At that time I felt pushed, prodded and victimized. I also felt despairing and hopeless.
Over the years (and it took a while) I have found that marriage/couples counselling was one of the avenues where I learned to have better expectations (that is more reasonable ones) I also learned that it takes some people a long time to get better. And of course I wanted it instantly!
Like you, I discussed my couples counselling with a lot of people (I didn't have great boundaries then). I allowed people to challenge me on things that were really none of their business. Such was the state of my despair and hopelessness.
These days everyone does not get to hear about my counselling, relationship with any doctor or really my frustrations of dealing with so many things. Before I thought I had to get someone else's opinion to be validated and since they didn't go to therapy how could they validate it?
My AH and I went to a marriage counselor who also was an addiction specialist. The unfortunate thing was that he called my AH out immediately when he started with the BS. My AH never went back, so that back fired on me. I still see him however, because he has great insight and a lot of wisdom that I find very helpful. My Ah is just so far in denial that he couldn't handle someone who wasn't afraid to call a spade a spade. I hope you have tester luck soon. Be thankful he is willing to try.
I read this topic just this morning and it brings three responses.
One: regarding the crazy making blame game - my ex once left a message saying that "if I could prove I wasn't having an affair, he would go to AA" even now thinking about it makes me go HUH? How do you prove you aren't doing something? And - it boggles my mind that THAT sentence ever even made sense to him.
Two: regarding facing situations I fear - I often find myself repeating part of the Lord is My Shepard prayer - "yeah, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil"; and, the Bible quote - For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Three: and I realize this is so easy to say but so HARD to do - there is nothing wrong with stating a boundary with both your AH and the counselor - I will leave if he starts yelling at me and you let him. (and then you have to do the hard thing, actually leave when it happens).
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
