The material presented
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information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
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my first thought is maybe they should get to a few open meetings of al-anon!!!! so far enabling your son and picking up after him have resulted in???? him still using, my second thought has he really been only using on avarage 3 times a month??? third thought have they lived in the home with an an adult child????
Hit more meetings, post more read more. He needs to grow up it seems by not going to his drug councelling he is trying to control and hurt you (pram and rattle being thrown out).
As parents we have guilt anyway but for the so called professinals to chuck this at you seems harsh. They said about your expectations for your son were unrealistic...I think your son's expectations with regards to what you'll do for him are unrealistic.
Just my humble opinion...In love and support through this tough time, take care of you.
Simone x
-- Edited by Zimmy on Friday 14th of December 2012 03:10:22 AM
__________________
What a caterpiller calls the end of the world....God calls a butterfly
Funny thing about counselors...they are human....and sometimes they are WRONG. A college degree does not guarantee wisdom and understanding, and NONE of us have a crystal ball.
They have a right to their opinion...I like to say, it's America! you have the right to hold a wrong opinion.
Trust your own intuition, and your own judgment...and HP will get the rest.
RP
-- Edited by rehprof on Friday 14th of December 2012 06:40:39 AM
These 'xxxx' drug counselors are killing people. Only an alcoholic (addict, whatever) can touch another alcoholic in that special way...AND only if they have the set of directions from AA's Big Book to pass on to the new man. They can do it effectively because they have walked through it themselves.
Talk therapy does not work for the type your son is (I know, I was just like him). 12-step recovery is not talk therapy and counseling doesn't work. These people do not want to lose their jobs or status and it ticks me off what they do...they just don't get it.
Mention the Big Book to them and see how disturbed they get.
-- Edited by canadianguy on Friday 14th of December 2012 01:19:54 PM
I have stuck by my son who is an addict from day one (he is 20 years old). He also has bipolar disorder (but will not take his medications regularly). I Put him through drug rehab twice and he has had constant counselling in some respect for 5 years. I Visited him in Jail where he was for 4 months last year and I have paid financially outrageous amounts of money in court fines and lawyers bills because he has been in a lot of trouble with the law. In July, he got thrown out of his second drug rehab and came home. Things were fine for a couple of months, then he relapsed. I moved after the relapse because he told me he wanted to get away from the old neighborhood, and we found a new counsellor. Since the relapse he has used off and on (according to his counselor only 3 times per month). He has also been very abusive verbally to myself and the rest of the members of my family and refuses to look for a job (I suspect because he cannot pass the drug test required of most employers and he knows that). I have paid for him to enroll in his second semester of college that he has done poorly in. In a nutshell, he seems to not be able to get his life together and I always end up picking up the peices.
My problem: I kicked my son out of my home 4 weeks ago because I could not take any more. Everything I've read and everyone I have spoken with has told me that I did the right thing. HOWEVER, Today I met with his drug counsellor alone because my son refuses to go since being kicked out. The counsellor brought another counsellor in the room with us and they pretty much told me I had ruined 12 months of clinical counselling by kicking him out and it was the worst thing I could have done. I was told that using drugs 3 times a month was acceptable for someone who used to use daily and that my expectations of my son were "unrealistic" and that he is now damaged from being kicked out. I was basically told to get myself counselling and attend alanon (which I already do). I was feeling good about making him get his life together, but after meeting with his counselor, I feel 10 times the amount of guilt that I normally do. I have done nothing but cry. I am at wits end. If kicking him out was not an option, what was i supposed to do? Any help is appreciated. THANK You so much.
THANK You. I did not throw my son out to benefit myself. I was not angry. I was at my wits end and so tired. I did not know what else to do and the only thing I knew to do was place him in an environment where he could take accountability for his own actions. I have tried to not enable him when he is living with me, but that does not work. He carries on arguing until I give him whatever he wants at the time. If I do not give in, he becomes verbally abusive or holes form in the walls and other things get broken. I have called the law but that just ends up just costing me more pain (and same result; he will be taken out of my home). The counselors are worried about HIS safety, but apparently my safety is not a concern?
To answer your question; No the professionals have not had adult children in their homes.. they are too young for that. After kicking my son out, I finally felt I had done something positive for my entire family and my son, but after this visit with the counselors, I feel as if everything is helpless and the guilt they placed on me is unbelievable.
By the way, you're gonna have to let your son fall. Don't put your hand in front of God's hand anymore. Let him do what he needs to do until he is so sick and tired of being sick and tired and so destitute that he has the willingness to go to AA. Beleve me, he knows somewhere in his heart it is there for him. He needs his willingess to recover - and no one can give another human being willingness. it's the one thing we can't do for them yet the one thing they must have.
Use Alanon to help you walk through the guilt of codependency. Leave it in God's hands.
Not easy at all to do but the only thing you can do other than what I have suggested is section him to rehab if he says he's going to kill himself. And only an experienced rehab which gives a strong 12-step message can be the foundation for his AA recovery.
Wow...the behavior of other counselors never ceases to amaze me. Most of them measure progress and goals by a "reduction" in the behaviors in question. Of course folks can lie about that and there are flaws in that measurement system when the goal needs to be total abstinence.
It's not any parents' "job" to handle their adult child's life 100 percent. Even if he was really severely mentally ill, at some point he might still be better off in a group home rather than you taking care of him forever and continuing the cycle you described. You are too close to the situation to be the one motivating and incentivizing him to get his life together.
To thine own self be true. Alanon meetings will help you. That's about the only part of what the counselors told you that I would stock in.
Funny thing about counselors...they are human....and sometimes they are WRONG
I echo what the others have already said on here, and love Rehprof's comment above.....
I would gently suggest that you are NOW doing the things that will help your son towards his potential sobriety.... Paying his fines, giving him soft landings, etc., are not helping him get better...
There is an awesome book out there - "Getting Your Children Sober", written by Toby Rice Drews - that will help explain this so well...
Take care
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
The counsellor brought another counsellor in the room with us and they pretty much told me I had ruined 12 months of clinical counselling by kicking him out and it was the worst thing I could have done.
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That makes my blood boil !!! Your son is an adult and 100% responsible for his own actions and recovery..period. He will never get better as long as you continue to provide the soft-landing that Tom mentioned.
I also have an A son - my house rules are: absolutely no drinking/using in my house or on my property(had to expand my boundary to include the yard cause he thought it was ok to get drunk on the front porch..wrong!! ) He will maintain a paying job and contribute (within his means) to household expenses. In the past few months, I had him removed from my home twice by the police & he spent the nite in the detox tank. Totally humiliating for him but ya know, if he choses to break the house rules, then he gets to deal with the consequences of his actions.
We now have two months of sobriety, he's back to work, paying his own way & pitching in $100/wk to the household.
There is a God - we just have to stay out of his way and let him do his work.
I was amazed by how the counselors my A husband and I saw, and by the ones he saw alone. They had all those years of training and all those degrees and yet they were clueless about addiction. Just clueless. They meant well but they had no idea. When he said he only drank occasionally, they believed him. When he said okay, he'd quit drinking, but he didn't need to go to AA because he could do it on his own, they believed him. When he said I was paranoid and had a problem because I didn't believe these claims, they'd say, "Mattie, why do you think you have so many problems?" He completely bamboozled them.
I also know an addiction counselor who is an alcoholic herself. I have known her many years and believe me, I have enough evidence. Of course she's in denial -- aren't they all? But why does she keep a bottle in her office desk? Why does she start drinking before she goes to her office in the morning? You can imagine what "good" advice she's giving her clients!
Sadly, the fact is that many counselors are just not up to the job.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you. Hang in there.
I am very moved by everyone's posts. I needed to hear some of this to keep on going; Especially with Christmas so close and I have not heard from my son in quite a while now. I worry enough without feeling guilty too. I Pray that God takes care of him. I know I cannot any more. Before meeting with the counselors, I had began to accept and detach but the last 2 days has made that very difficult. I know my son has probably (I do not know this for fact since I haven't heard from him) relapsed badly since I threw him out, but I just pray it is part of God's plan for him. THANKS for all the support. It was what I needed to continue.
Still using 3 x a month is not recovery so it's not like he even relapsed. He was never recovered to begin with and you did this hoping to let him have his own consequences and also for your own sanity.
Still using 3 x a month sounds like frequent relapse already. He might be on a binge right now, but he wasn't recovering in your home and you knew it so I applaud you in staying true to yourself and your own higher power that is guiding you.
I would let him do his thing. My experience in dealing with this for years in AA is that people usually re-surface again and they need that time. I was told by my sponsor to run from anyone who tries to take my pain away. I needed every bit of my pain to be willing.
You are doing the only thing for him you can do - praying. You could ask God to bring your son to Him...envision him in the rooms of recovery with stability, some happiness and growth. Oh - and if he gets to recovery, please remember it is not an overnight matter. We are usually still pretty crazy until we go through all the steps. Even then we are never cured, only better given our willingness on a daily basis to live right and seek a spiritual way of life.
God wants you to have some peace and joy this holiday season. Lower your expectations of what Christmas should be or what it was when your son or even yourself were little. Honor the day for what it's about - the birth of Christ. In the midst of all of this, you can actually have some fun! Let yourself feel all the feelings but try to stay unattached from constant depression and anxiety. God loves you.
counselors can be wrong... sponsors can be wrong... no one among us has ever been right all the time. there is an expression, "to thine one self be true."
my experience has shown me that if I make a decision and the knot in my stomach eases, then it is the right decision for me. sometimes we need to trust our own instincts. hang in there. keep praying. keep talking. keep going to meetings.
and as our closing reminds us, "there is no situation too difficult to be bettered and no unhappiness too great to be lessened..."
I have been given several great pieces of advice here and I am grateful to all of you. @workingthroughit; you are exactly right. I do need to detach and see christmas for the simplicity that it is meant to be. A simple child born into this world who may just be our saving grace someday. Thank you for your words of wisdom in helping me. Also @Kaybee; easing the knot in my stomach.. thank you for that as well. This discussion was my saving grace over this situation. I almost caved because of the counselors. Had it not been because of this board, I probably would have gone back to enabling. I know letting him learn for himself is what my son needs at this time in his life no matter how long that takes. It is also what I need.
Stay strong! I would say to follow your heart but that could get you into trouble. Follow your head instead. No guilt trips allowed. I feel sad that I have kicked my son out of the house but know it is the right thing to do for him and, more importantly, for myself. It makes him furious to hear my new Al Anon attitude and rules rather than the enabling/codependent he formerly enjoyed. You will notice that they are upset about not getting the 'things' they want more than alienation of feelings. The more they argue and yell, the better you are doing! You got this.
Thank you, Magster! We are meeting my son for the first time in 1 1/2 months Christmas morning at Waffle House for breakfast (my conditions, he tried to manipulate the where and when, but I stood my ground). I am very nervous, but I will do my best to get through a short meal and see him on the holiday. I am using my head although my heart does hurt. It is not easy, but I have a lot of help from my alanon group and my church group... Getting through it. Have a Merry Christmas, everyone! Thanks for the help.
