The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I agree with JerryF that a sponsor and a f2f group would be best for you in the day to day struggle with this, however with that said... I will say this, coming from the perspective of one that has been in al-anon a good number of years and still has trouble with this very issue with her ex-AH. I needed to do a fourth step on why I felt compelled to "talk" to him when it always ends up in the negative column for me. Here's what I came up with (and this is just for me, not sure it will pertain to you... but hope it helps): my last ex-AH was my 4th marriage and I think I just don't want to admit that I failed again. I think I just kept trying because I wanted SO badly for at least ONE of my marriages to work. My ex knows where my buttons are and how to push them; so if he can get me on the phone I'm sunk. I have a new rule for myself, no phone conversations. We have no children together, and no real reason to communicate with each other, so this works for me; it may not for you. He lives fairly close to me (within 20 miles) so I quite frequently could see him in town. I've decided to deal with this issue in this way: he drives a white Ford truck, there are many like it in this town, but his has the distinct marks of having been driven into a pvc pipe and leaving a dint on the passenger side, so I'm just going to "chose" not to go "looking" for that dent anymore and just tell myself it's someone else (even if it isn't).
I have to protect myself from myself, so to speak; so I've blocked him on my cell phone and if I'm feeling particularly weak one day I will actually "unplug" my house phone, cause most people don't call me on it anyway. He has yet to come by the house, so I'm safe there so far. He's been able to keep this thing going by getting me "talked" into coming to see him at his house, because he and my daughter don't get along and he doesn't "deal" real well with the fact that I care for my mom who has moderate Alzheimer's. I know I am vulnerable right now, due to being housebound because of my mom, so I go to a lot of on-line meetings and try to respond to posts on the message board too. This keeps me grounded in my program. I also have many Al-anon CAL (Conferance Approved Literature), so I read those a lot. I stay focused on the things I can change... utilizing the tools that I have: on-line al-anon, literature, phone lists, and f2f meetings when I can get someone to sit with mom. Sometimes it has to be my 15 year old daughter, because there is no one else; but I have to take care of me.
I am so glad you posted this topic, it has given me an opportunity to address some of these issues in myself. I think I will also post my own topic dealing with my ongoing struggle if you would like to read more of my story. Hope this helps, it helped me to refocus for sure!
Overcome
P.S. Ok, I just spent 45 minutes posting my own topic to the board about my story, then I hit the wrong key and lost it! LOL Rather than stay up all night, I think maybe my HP wants me to "sleep" on this a bit and post again tomorrow, so look for an "upcoming" post by me on "Trying to live up to an ideal". That's how I'll label my topic.
-- Edited by Overcome on Tuesday 11th of December 2012 01:04:36 AM
__________________
I can Overcome all things through my HP who strengthens me.
With all the abusive blaming and other things that have gone on in my 10 years with my husband, you would think that I would be glad to have some distance, but I can't seem to keep from wanting to talk to him and try to understand what is going on.
I had to email my soon to be ex and ask him to send paperwork releasing his claim on one of the vehicles I am keeping. I have asked him multiple times and he finally responded today. I of course had to ask him why he is being so neglegent in responding when he is the one pushing for a quick divorce. I made a statement about wishing he would think of how I am feeling in all of this and that communicating with me would be helpful in making this easier. He replied about how he cares still for me and wishes that I understood that he is concerned. I responded back with lots of questions and explanations about how I was feeling.
I felt desperate for him to communicate and wanted him to answer questions, wanting to know why he is doing these things to me. I just wish that I could find a way to let go, to feel at peace. I have tried to not communicate and do ok till he does respond to the things about the divorce, and than it turns in to something else for me. I have had no closure from him and while I know that I can't expect him to give that, I truly do want it.
I have a hard time believing he is concerned and that he cares when we have been living in seperate homes for a month and he has yet to even ask how I am doing or if the kids are doing ok.
Any suggestions for finding the serenity in continuing no contact would be helfpul.
Aloha Cinders...welcome back to the board. Question? Are you attending face to face Al-Anon Family Group meetings and do you have literature, a sponsor and a home group? The question you have is best asked of a sponsor and your situation has solutions in the group. Answers about how you feel and what you are doing can also be found in the literature.
What you are doing is normal for a person, exspouse (to be) of an alcoholic who isn't in recovery herself. "We are just as affected as the alcoholic except that we don't have the anesthesia of alcohol to block out reality"' is one part of the definition for alcoholism which we use to read in my early face to face meetings.
He can have feelings for you...it's okay and they usually do which would be great if they didn't come wrapped up in the label of his usual alcohol. Alcoholic are human with a life threatening disease. They are not bad people. Both the alcoholic and those they touch do absolutely crazy and unacceptable things under the influence of alcohol...whoever is drinking it.
You're having expectations of him for yourself which are not coming out in the way you want them to come out...you can learn how to get solution to that from a sponsor, literature and meetings. We learn to be not affected whether the alcoholic is drinking or not.
Maybe you should, for now, just keep contact and expect to be left hurt and unfulfilled (sounds nuts...I know and expecting an alcoholic or anyone else for that matter to fulfill your wants and needs often is a crap shoot) that way you won't be surprised and still have the need for contact part done. You might be doing it because he has some value still and you want that to be verifying of you...maybe not and still you're doing what you're trying not to do. We call that the definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Maybe our first of the twelve steps we work in Al-Anon will work for you also. Step 1. "Admitted we were powerless and that our lives had become unmanagable". Doing the first half of that step for me helped me to stop trying to make contact...I admitted I was powerless and I was done. I hated the struggle even after I was told that it was evidence of my addiction to my alcoholic/addict.
Others will be coming up behind me with their ESH. I'm in support. Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
I do attend meetings and have the literature. I do not have a sponsor yet as asking someone I don't know for something is a very big struggle for me. I know its the expectations of him that I am doing and wish I was not. Recently I had a very good moment where I knew that if I reached out to him, I would be let down and there would be none of what I expected coming back to me. It felt good not reaching out to him.
I really believe that no contact is where I need to be right now. The reason for that is I can send him 10 emails and text messages, he won't respond, not at all. I know he won't but I start to worry that he is not ok, that something has happened. When he finally does respond it sounds like the kind of communication you would have with a work colleague. And that ends up hurting my feelings. I seldom reach out to him anymore, what ends up happening is that he or I have a question on the divorce, we respond to each other and I end up wanting more, which I don't get. Your share of maybe communicating with no expectation of what I get after might be a good thing to try. I will work on letting go of the need to have something more back from him again.
I feel good about step one. I am powerless in this and I know that while living with him, my life was completely unmanageable. I have found much peace in the move to my new home. I still love him deeply and wish I did not. I have some very good moments where I am so at peace and glad it is all finally over for me.
going through similar, my ah had his 4th relapse in as many years-this time I facilitated a place for him to go and drink to his hearts content or to his bottom-ir was the only way to get him out of the home and away from the grandchildren-he calls when he is angry or wants me to fix something, he's hungry, someone took his keys-finally blocked him-he too is about 20 miles away, afraid he will show up-already has once, I just can't deal with him any more and will take legal measures-again if I have to-I worry or am on edge sometimes-but it is still better without him here-letting go and letting God one day at a time
Mine lives only about 5 miles or so from me. I never see him, he doesn't do anything but work and sit at home drinking. He has stopped living any kind of life several years ago. When I moved, I chose to not give him my new address, phone number or personal email. The only way he can contact me is via my cell and work email. He doesn't call, email or text me of his own choosing. All contact occurs because of something related to our divorce. Its me that feels desperate to talk to him or know that he is ok. I am working on that part. I know that this is his journey and I have to let happen to him what will happen. Even with all the bad over the years, I can't forget all the good that was there too. I miss him, yet I know he was not healthy for me and that my life and the lives of my children are much better now. Even though the kids are not his, I guess I had hoped he would show some concern over how they are doing since he has been in their lives for so long. My daughters are 13 and they have known him for almost 10 years. He is the only dad they have any memory of living with. I need to take a lesson from my kids, when I check in with them, each of them is happy it is over and they have no desire to talk to him. Amazing how strong they have been.
I feel for you and I understand, too. It is hard letting go of the dream, even if it was a nightmare some times. It took me a lot of ups and major downs to stop having any expectations of having my emotional needs met by my AH (now separated--living apart for 18 months cycling between hopeful and hopeless). It can still hurt sometimes--but a lot less than it did and I feel I am in a better place now. It takes TIME. 10 years is a long time and so you should be gentle on yourself. (hugs)
I'm still reading and haunting the post cause for me again it's a great "Wadda ya do when" post. I remember journaling/inventorying my own same situation with my past relationships...(I don't fall in love I fall into lust addiction) and specially the one with my alcoholic/addict exwife. What I learned and had to face was that like in most relationships I did really invest my entire mind, body, spirit and emotions and the investment was deep with grand expectations. Ending the relationship didn't end the expectations of it; I think that was mentioned by someone else too. I learned that my value of my happiness was caused by the amount of hope I had that she would get sober/clean first and then I would be satisfied and happy. My happiness depended upon someone else whose greatest focus was on mind and mood altering chemicals. I learned that I had become digusted with myself for trouncing my values and putting my own life on hold for someone who wasn't investing with me. I learned that I was/am a naturally loving person who invests his love at times into failing relationships and gets no return for the investment. I had to learn to detach with love in these cases; keep the loving character and get away from bad relationships. I learned that much of the time I was emtion driven...when my feelings were strong they let me anywhere and when that happened my mental and spiritual conditions were lousey. I had to get back into balance. I learned also that I was self interest centered which put blinders on me that I couldn't see where other sources of help and support would be and I wouldn't step away when my alcoholic/addict found help for herself. I got envious and jealous and wouldn't let go of my illusion that I was still in control.
The journaling and inventorying is very helpful and of course prime would be that I changed my controling behaviors after the discovery. When I found out that my relationship with my HP was a conditional one (I asked my HP for help only on special occasions meaning rarely) it became one of the primary behaviors I went after first.
Practice, Practice, Practice is a mantra for me...not only with the alcoholic/addict and also with other people, places and things I allow control over my mind, body, spirit and emotions.
Hoping you find more recovery growth and relief. (((((hugs)))))
For me, doing inventory included drilling down to what hooks me into wanting to communicate. I found that I could make changes and include healthy substitutes which greatly reduced times that I would think of contacting my exAH.
Another tremendous hook is hoping that I meant something to him- that he cares. In my situation, my exAH's disease continues to progress, so that each communication has become an opportunity for him to lie and manipulate. It has taken me a long time to stop and check my motives and anticipated outcomes before dialing.
After reading so much wonderful thoughts and shares, I think I am ready to do my own personal inventory. Bud, I read what you wrote and wonder at what hooks me in to WANTING to communicate. Why do I feel this desire to try and find closure and understanding when in my brain I know I will not get the answers to my questions? I am ready to take a close look at myself and why I feel so much need to feel comforted by him. Especially since I already know the outcome. As Jerry put it, its the definition of insanity. Interesting days ahead for me!! While I am sure this will be painful at times, I am actually excited to start this next step.
Exactly Cinders... "what is the seduction" of being in touch? Deep down, what need would be filled? Slowly, I'm finding other ways to satisfy my needs.
I'm a little late in the game cinders sorry you are going through this, I do believe it's very normal to want to know the "why's" of everything, I really believe for me at least it's more about I want him to tell me the "why's" so I can hear from him "what" ... what is wrong with me that he would choose this life over the life of what could have been. You have already received wonderful ESH.
In order to have peace of mind I have to let go of the "why's" because I'm dealing with very cunning, baffling and powerful disease. It also takes the focus off of me and so I don't have to look at myself. I need to stay in a place of making sure I don't start doing the finger pointing so I can avoid doing what I need to do.
If you have Courage to Change book I really encourage you to read the section about "expectation" and "acceptance" the reason i pick those two is because there is a wonderful read about acceptance I think that talks about when I stop trying to figure out why someone does what they do I can focus on myself. There is more to it than that, it is a very strong reading to me because it reminds me again that I am powerless over people, places, things and the past (that is strictly my add .. lol). The expectations is huge .. because I have to stop expecting normal behavior out of someone who is not in a palce to give it. I also have to stop expecting him to think like I do. He doesn't. Right now I'm way way way ok with that!!
The other thing I strongly encourage is before taking a full blown inventory which (the questions you are asking are great and deserve introspect) .. please do get a sponsor or work through it with a therapist. It is way to easy to get in the trap of beating oneself up and right now is a good time to do the work while being very gentle with yourself.
Yes, the addict is sick and has a disease, however they are just like everyone else (they are not special snowflakes that the rules do not apply to them) they are still responsible for their choices and the consequences of such choices. The only part I own is my part. I am not required to own anything that is not mine. This reminds me again to be gentle with myself and not be overly responsible for or take on more than I should.
Hugs P :)
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I actually sat down and ordered the books online today. That is one that did not have and wanted. I look forward to reading it and the others.
I also do have a therapist and am enjoying working with her. She has been great and has strongly encouraged me in alanon.
Thanks for the thoughts. You all are a great support system and I love hearing from folks that have gone through similar feelings. I see so much of what you all express as part of what I am also going through and it has helped me to remember that I am not alone or that I am crazy for feeling so mixed up in what I deal with having been married to an alcoholic.
Cinders, it's a 10 year relationship that has had lots of ups and downs and is now finally drawing to a real end. You have months of grieving and adjustment ahead of you. It's painful. As human beings, when we are in pain, the natural thing for us to do is to grasp at ways to try and end the pain. I supsect that you keep wanting contact or think "closure" will help because it will lessen or stop the pain of this break up. It wont. Only time and you changing into a different person will.
It's normal to grieve. It's okay to feel sad about the divorce and break up. It's like your marriage is dead and you are trying to do CPR on something dead. A lot of folks would try and do that but we all know it doesn't help. You are taking all the steps with alanon and therapy to work through this, and I to believe you ultimately will come out the other side much stronger. It will take time though.
