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Perfect opportunity to teach your daughter to detach! I've had nearly identical issues with my ex and my boys.
I say (and therapist HAVE OK'D THIS) things like "your dad is a grown up, he makes his own decisions, we have no business telling him how to live, if you don't like what your dad is doing it's something you can remember when you grow up and not repeat".
Most of the time though it really comes out "remember your dad is who he is, you cannot change him you can only accept him as he is and realize sometimes we don't agree with everyone in life".
As far as talking to her dad - would she write him? Sometimes that goes better. My son, now 16, finally DID let his dad have it a year ago. Stood up to his dad, told him everything he felt, let him have it with both barrels and it actually improved the relationship. But he was 15 so that's actually normal for a boy to do.
Also, in my state of CA at 12 they can decide where they go if it can be proven the child is mostly of sound mind for the age. 13 is an easier age to get the back up but the Police will not even get involved once they pass 13 no matter WHAT the court documents say. I learned this when my son was that same age, 15, someone finally told me to test it and we did. He refused to go (had had every reason not to and it was not because of some simplistic issue), I backed him up, I told my ex to call the cops and explained to my son he might have to talk to an officer first. NOTHING HAPPENED. The police would not come and his lawyer told him he was SOL. So between the talk and a few months refusing to see his dad - things changed.
But I encourage you - if she wants to see her dad - to teach her to detach. No better lesson than right now. And always as other say, remind her they love each other.
-- Edited by AStrongerMe on Friday 7th of December 2012 02:15:43 PM
I divorced my alcoholic ex-husband after 16 years, 3 rehabs and 1 suicide attempt. I had to let go and choose healthy. That said, we share a 12 year old child. A great girl. Smart, funny, compassionate and truly well behaved. My ex really wasn't there for her during our marriage and at the heart of it she does not have a great relationship with him. I think she's come to understand he is sick and not expect too much from him. They do have visitation and I do not disparage her father or discourage that. The alcohol issue and the state/court system here is tricky at best...
So why am I frustrated? I deal with the fallout. I knew I would have to. I know it will continue and I have no expectations from him with one exception - he not drink and drive with our child in the car. We don't talk at all and even in the divorce decree it states communication by text only unless it's an emergency. Otherwise I get drunk , angry, berating phone calls and I'm not doing that anymore. I generally stay out of all his business and consider us more parallel parenting - at best - over co-parenting.
My current source of frustration is related to dating. He is on his 3rd girlfriend in 4 months and our daughter has been subjected to them all and she comes home and is just pissed about it. She won't discuss it in therapy. She won't tell him how she feels - ever - because he won't care and will tell her to stick it. If he isn't ignoring her on his weekend (he only gets her 4 nights a month) for his drinking buddies - he ignores her because he's busy with his new girlfriend. I feel the need to clarify - I don't care that he's dating - I expected it. I have no control over that and I know it. The fact that he is dating women like him (alcoholic/addicts) is not surprising or unexpected. I just wish he would leave it at the door for the 4 nights he has our daughter. Of course, I can't say anything and it's not my choice to make...I can only deal with the fallout the best way I can.
So, I've said things to her (when she's crying/angry/going on about their terrible visit) along the lines of...I wish your visit with your dad had been better. I'm sorry it wasn't what you expected. You know that I've been dating but I am not going to introduce you to someone until I am sure they are the right person for our "family" and is special enough for you to meet. Sadly, your father has a difference of opinion and he chooses to do things differently. Just know that I love you very much and you can talk to me about these things anytime.
So, from those that have been there...how have you handled these kinds of issues with your children? How do you handle your frustration? I try not to let it get to me but seeing my daughter so hurt just breaks my heart and makes me mad. I do go to therapy and talk it out but that's not helpful for the day to day nonsense.
I think you are doing as well as could be expected. In my experience which only comes from counseling kids of divorce, it's my understanding that once the kids get to be a certain age and can advocate and speak for themselves, the judges will listen to them and they will not force the child to go to visits if the visits are traumatizing and the child doesn't want to go. Not sure if your daughter is ready for that or not. Doing that would have it's own backlash of sorts probably.
For me, I had to learn (mostly from my sponsor), that I was only responsible for MY relationship with my kids, and not for my A's with them..... I told my kids, over and over again - that they are "safe and loved" - and that is all I could really, truly promise them. It wasn't my place, nor my business, to try to tell my kids why their mother was acting (or not acting) in a certain way.... All I could do, is hug them, and reassure them that they are safe and loved..... Over and over and over again.
The other stuff - even well meaning stuff - is really not our business..... If things with your ex escalate to the point where you think your daughter is in physical/practical danger from the visits, then perhaps going back to court and changing the visitation rights is the answer.... At 12, your daughter is nearing the age of consent, so if the visits with her Dad are too upsetting to her, she will soon have the choice whether to go or not....
It's hard - it's really hard.... As I read your comments, it brought back tons of memories to me.... how I, even when I thought my heart was in the right place - would say things like that which would (purposely or not) disparage my A..... I leaned on my sponsor for a long time on this issue, and he finally convinced me of the truth..... I am only responsible for MY relationship with my kids..... and they are safe and loved....
T
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
My therapist and hers are all on the same page with what I say, how I handle things and how well we communicate (my child and I). There is NOT any disparaging of him going on in our lives. He is sick. He was abused growing up and he emanates that now as an adult. She wants to see her dad and have him love her but all he does is ignore her and treat her like crap. If he's not nitpicking her or getting in her face...yet she still wants to see him. I send her off under an immense amount of anxiety every other weekend and pray it goes well and that I don't - once again - get a text to come pick her up.
I just find it hard to deal with my frustration at the situation for her. That he can be a flaming crazy head but I have to deal with all the fallout. When she is angry at him - she takes it out on ME! When she's angry at him she won't say a word about to him because of the wrath she will endure. It is frustrating. I just want to be left alone and get away from the chaos and trauma and I can't. Some days it just sucks.
It's almost as exhausting as being married to him once was. I look forward to the day she gets sick of it and tells him she's done. I expect that will take a year tops. She is 12. She has already had visitation reduced drastically...she's a smart kid.
If she is going over there and staying the night, and every time he has a woman over and they're doing drugs or drinking to excess -- well, I would not be comfortable with that either. If I were in that situation, I'd advocate for a change of the visitation arrangements. Like, he could take her out to brunch on Sundays, or visit for an hour under some kind of supervision. From what my lawyer has said, the step to take would be to start documenting what happens -- "Week 1, he had Mandy over to spend the night, they drank beer in front of the TV all evening, Mandy passed out" or whatever -- if your daughter is okay telling you that stuff. I'm guessing she is from what you know already. Then the next step would be consulting the lawyer about formally changing the visitation arrangements. In my case, my ex was okay with new arrangements -- he actually welcomed not being stuck with our child as much. So we didn't have to slug it out through the courts. I don't know your situation. But that's what I would do if the situation happened to me.
