Really Rough Afternoon - Al-Anon Family Group

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

Really Rough Afternoon

rehprof · ~*Service Worker*~

Yesterday the ex came by to pick up the boys (16 and 10). The 16yo was stalling, kept on the computer, and ex was like "Okay, I'm leaving without you!" It was tense. He tried to talk to 16 yo...asked him to come with him so they could talk. Son refused. Then, 10yo doesn't like to ex's house without his big brother...I think the 10yo is uncomfortable if Dad is drinking...and also feels like he is dissing his big brother if he likes to go, and big bro doesn't. So, 10yo says, I don't want to go either.

So the ex turns to me and says "what do I do?" I said. "I really don't know, this is new territory for all of us"

The ex burst into tears...sobbing...grabbed his cane, and left without his kids. It was AWFUL.

10 yo was devastated -- says "I miss Dad.." and was worried that his Dad was ok...it was pretty intense to see the ex be in so much pain.

we all cried...I told the 10 yo that I would be gone today, and that I would invite his Dad to come and spend the day with him at our house.

Was that the right thing to do? All I said to the 16yo was "No matter what your Dad's choices have been, he loves you very much"

How do I proceed? Do I support the kids in not wanting to see their Dad? Am I enabling by letting him visit them in my house?

God, this is complicated, and SO, SO sad. His disease is chasing his kids away.

Any thoughts or experiences you can share will help....

best,

RP

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

My friend my thought is this, what do we do when we can no longer tolerate the disease?

We leave, or they do.It sounds to me that your boys are saying this in the only way they can. They are smart, it's good dad is hurt. He needs to if he ever can fight this horrible disease! His chances just went up very high.

I would not invite him over. The boys made their choice and again, do you want to enable the disease? I sure know it hurts. My son made his own decisions, I respected that. If the A is sad enough, he will walk himself to AA, and learn how to get clean and get on program.

He needs to learn to get rid of that misery, he has to stop and will do anything to do that.The boys are old enough to understand this. Do you have an ala teen there? You and your boys could have talks to let all the stuff out. Do you go to meetings? If so you can ask about starting an ala teen or, ask if someone would be able to be with you and boys to have meetings. Someone there might know of others who would want to join.

I remember the heartbreak very well.The ages your boys are is a crucial time. Myself I have shared I took my boy and girl on fun day trips. There are so many neat free places to go. I don't know where you live, but here we can go to where they make cheese, or visit a paper mill, fish hatchery, mountains, ocean, desert and more. Also my kids were into so many things. motorcycles swimming etc.

Sending you love and hope. Debilyn

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh, boy, this is tough territory. I'm glad you have a lot of recovery, because sometimes it's really needed, isn't it?

I don't know the particulars of the situation, like if the ex is visibly drunk when the boys go to visit. That has always struck me as harmful and undesirable, not to say dangerous if he is driving them. So I guess one thing would be whether your older boy doesn't want to go because he'll be drunk, or just because he's a teenager and wants to spend time on his computer with his friends instead, which would also be typical of a teenager. It's hard enough for even a normal parent to spend specified quality time with a sixteen-year-old.

I guess in your shoes I'd sit down calmly with the 16-year-old and try to figure out what's going on there, and whether he's just being a teenager or whether there are things going on over there that they shouldn't be exposed to.

For a long time my ex just picked up our son and they went out for pizza together. They went to a pizza place that's only four blocks away and they walked, so I didn't even have to worry about drunk driving. That was a big incentive for my son and it was a defined, limited activity, so easier than going over to the ex's house for a whole day and sitting around watching TV in a bored way. Of course with two kids it is a greater problem keeping them both from being bored.

My ex really loves our son, and I personally thought it was okay for him to come here and them to visit as long as my ex was not drunk. I just said, "I'm going upstairs to work, see you guys in a couple hours!" I don't think it was enabling in my case, because I think that connection was valuable. If he were drunk at the time, that would be a different matter.

Everyone's situation and solution will be different, though. Sending you support in handling these complicated things!

rehprof · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree...if my ex was drunk at my house...that would be a different story..and I would ask him to visit the kids when he was sober...

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Rehprof

I agree this is certainly extrememly sad and unfortunate. Since this is new territory for all of you , I believe that it is important to discuss this with the children and see what works best for them.

I liked the idea of suggesting that he visit at your house or even go for a pizzza or movie and then come home to your house.When you suggested that Dad come to your house to visit , how did the children react?

It is hard but with your recovery and tools I am sure you can come up with an alternate

In my prayers.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

If one sat down with the boys and asked them how they would feel if dad just came to your house, how that would be, that would make sense. If they were ok with that, then they get to be with dad not drinking.

My view was more if they did not want to see him at all. My A could have come over sober but he came over drunk and mean one night so I got a RO.

Maybe they could play board games, watch movies or get something they can build together.

I agree with Mattie in that they do need their Dad in their life sober. I believe it would be enabling if they were allowed to go with dad and he drinks.

hugs honey, there are always options!! debilyn

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Reprof,

I just wanted to send you love and support. I'm so sorry that your family is going through this difficult time together. You've gotten some great ESH and handled it with grace and dignity. Doing the best I can in any given situation is the best that I can do. Sit down pray about it, turn it over and you are going to know what is the next best thing for you to do for you and the boys.

The holidays can be challenging under the best of circumstances. Having raging addiction in the mix makes for a challenging complex situation.

Hugs P :)

Path to Serenity · Senior Member

I think I'd leave it up to the kids. If they are afraid to be alone with Dad at his house due to his drinking or whatever, then they shouldn't have to go. If they would be comfortable with Dad coming to visit in their home, then Dad could bring a pizza & a couple of movies - that would make a 4-5hr visit in a comfortable, secure environment.

Then there are usually some amusement park type activities that could fill up a whole day - if Dad commits to no drinking & driving -- again, whatever the children are comfortable with.

hdftby100 · Senior Member

Maybe sitting down with your kids and talking about it without him. Also a thought for them is maybe they can write down how they do not like his drinking and how it hurts them. This way they can get out what they want to say exactly how the want to say it and he will get the message. Hard to put kids in a face to face situation to say that. I'm always a big advocate of writing things as then they don't come out wrong or worried you will say the wrong thing because they can re-write it and you can help them along with this. Just a thought cause that is something I have never dealt with. Good luck and keep us posted.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I like what other's have stated. I think you are doing great and only would advocate that you kids use their own words and voices to speak their minds.

Also, Reprof, if anything is going to get your ex-A sober, it's going to be incidents like this. So while is sucks and it hurts, stuff like this is needed if he is ever going to have a shot at sobriety. Not to say that you should be happy that bad stuff is happening to him or that you should even live your life holding out so much hope for him to get sober....as I know you are moving on with your life. I also know that you would prefer to have him sober for your childrens' sake and for whatever feelings you have left for him.

So...consequences for his choices are just that....He has to have this stuff happen to him as part of his journey.

All you can really do is talk to your kids and encourage them to speak their minds too.

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

oh, I forgot... the thing about telling them dad actually loves them....... My young mind was so confused when my parents behaved in their alcoholic, selfish, self-seeking dishonest, fearful ways... and then they told me that they loved me. huh? those actions and words don't match up. I sometimes wonder if I didn't marry an alcoholic because I was taught that love was supposed to hurt.... ?

Personally, I would not speak for their dad, but that is just from my experience from having alcoholic parents. The kids are hurting and we never want our kids to hurt, so we al-anons want to fix it. but I don't know if it's ours to fix. It's "dad's" relationship with them, not mine, I don't know if it's my responsibility....

just my two cents.

rehprof · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you all so much for your ESH. I am going to take the lead from the kids...and kinda let them decide what they feel is right for each of them.

I'm very proud that I didn't go into rescue mode ...even after all this time..my heart just broke for my ex...and a little part of me wanted to make it all right.

Instead, I did what you all said...these are the consequences he has to bear. I just need to help my kids deal with an A dad.

Thanks, All

Best,

RP

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Of course the thing is that if he wants his kids not to distrust and shy away from him, it is totally within his capacity. He can walk through the doors of AA any day that he chooses. If he is crying, it's because he can't have his cake and eat it too -- he can't have his drinking and the respect of his children. Feedback is good.

Hugs.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

My 14 yo had a time after we first left and he didn't visit her for 3 months while we were 2 blocks away. When he started to initiate contact again she decided not to stay at his house since he was over doing it for awhile. She then set boundaries with him and all is good 2 years later. She has told him that she nor her little sister will sleep over if he is drinking and he hasn't since when he has them about 4 days a month. This is hard. but support your kids and I love all the ESH you received. Sounds like you did good! Sending you love and support!

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

Alcoholism can really be a sad deal for everyone concerned and it doesn't necessarily change with sobriety. My recovering bf has made great efforts to keep in touch with his kids but gets very little back. They dutifully see him on holidays. Whether it's lack of understanding concerning alcoholism since none of them are in Alanon/Alateen, resentment of his past behavior or just that they are young don't want to give up their time; it's very hurtful to him. He admits he feels a lot of shame concerning his past behavior but he still picks up that ten ton phone and calls and leaves them messages. The older two he eventually hears from but the sixteen yr. old he feels he may have lost. It's been difficult for me to see him in that kind of emotional pain. Also as an acoa, I'm aware of the emotional awkwardness amongst them when we're together. Without Alanon recovery, it can feel like a huge risk to trust with your heart and disappointment feels personal instead of alcoholism related. As a young person without this program my expectations of my active alcoholic father were unrealistic. I wanted him to act like sober non alcoholic fathers. I wanted what they couldn't give and resented him when I didn't get what I wanted. I blamed my teenaged growing pains and broken picker as a young woman on him. Lots of resentment. He blamed me I blamed him and my mother "the peacekeeper" blamed both of us in an effort to not take sides.

Since you really didn't commit to a day or time for your sons' dad to visit your home, you have time to think this through further and discuss it with your sons. No surprise that the ten year old has allegiance to his big brother. No surprise he misses his dad too. It's great that he shared that, brought that out in the open where it belongs instead of stuffing or betraying his own feelings. It's his truth, his claim to his OWN relationship to his dad. He's an individual and not a follower of someone else's thinking even if he's sticking up for his big brother in a given moment. That is very cool. I wish I'd had had that sense of self when I was ten! : ) Maybe consider how it would feel for YOU to have their dad in your home? Your own feelings are important too. It's a great opportunity for the three of you to discuss alcoholism and its effects on your family and how having dad in the home as a visiting guest might feel for all of you.

Alcoholism is such a miserable disease but there's always hope. Thank goodness for recovery programs. We take a breath, THINK and then respond instead of react when we have decisions to make.

In support - TT

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