Alcohol in Cooking - Al-Anon Family Group

beaglegal · Newbie

Alcohol in Cooking

captcodee · Senior Member

If I were in the same situation, I would opt away from the lessons involving alchohol. I would not want to offer the temptation, however, why don't you ask your significant other what she feels?

The alcohol may burn off, but the bottle it comes out of doesn't

Aron

pixel04 · Senior Member

Hi Beaglegal,

I've wondered the same thing, and at one point I looked it up online. Here is a site I found helpful:

http://www.ochef.com/165.htm

Hope this is helpful,
Kristen

Powerless · Senior Member

I don't have an answer to your question, but have a thought. Even if the alcohol burns off in cooking, wouldn't the taste still be there? Is the taste enough to give someone recovering a difficult time? I imagine it would be. I watch the cooking channel a lot and have noticed that they do use wine and liquor in cooking. If you find the answer, will you please share with us?

lin0606 · ~*Service Worker*~

As far as I understand it, it's like non - alcoholic beer. MOST of the alcohol is gone, there is not enough there to get a person drunk. However, AA advises against it, and I think they are wise. There is no point in flirting with this deadly disease.
If you talk to any oldtimers in AA, they will have plenty of stories of people with many years sobriety, who thought that they had it beat and could eat a liquer chocolate, or have some baked alaska, or a small glass of wine. A year later, they are back out, drinking like they had never stopped.
It doesn't seem worth the risk to me, but I'm not the one whose opinion matters.

kitty · ~*Service Worker*~

Interesting replies (althugh I haven't checked out that link yet) ~ I do know for a fact that alcohol DOES burn off at a very low temperature. You do see a lot of alcohol used in desserts and it is for the flavour.

As far as the can of worms of "would the flavouring of the alcohol" send an A into a binge, I doubt it but have no idea, as everyone is different. I would think it was the alcoholic content itself that would effect their brains but maybe it is the flavour too, who knows.

Also it would seem to me that you wouldn't be talking about a great deal of alcohol anyway... unless you were pouring it on top of a cake say, that allowed it to soak in over night - I have a recipe like this & I WOULD NOT serve this to a recovering alcoholic.

Incidentally the little bottles of artificial flavorings that you buy in the grocery have alcohloic content, pretty high I do believe.

I think the best thing would be to discuss it or maybe make two, so you can see first hand how much the difference would effect the outcome. I'm not an alcoholic & have used wines, liquers, you name it in recipes, it adds greatly to the flavour & culmination of the dish.

Like everything in this program, this is ESH (experience, strength & hope) you have to determine what is right for you at this time.

In regards to "non-alcoholic beers" they indeed do have .5-1% of alcohol in them, so they really are not 'non-alcoholic' ~ my step-father tried that 3 weeks into his "Program." I bartended for a summer (many moons ago) & knew this & told my mother immediately, as she had no idea! The advertisers are sneaky & so are those A's ~ God love 'em!

Holiday Greeting & Wishes,

love, -Kitty

-- Edited by kitty at 16:33, 2005-12-19

-- Edited by kitty at 16:37, 2005-12-19

Flora123 · Senior Member

Dear Beaglegal,

Much as I hate to disagree with Kitty, I think a very small amount of alcohol does not burn off. I like cooking programs (just as well, my son is a chef, and watches them avidly!), and, just the other day, heard a top chef confirm this in answer to the same question.

I am not an A, and enjoy wine, but, I HATE the taste of alcohol in food - no wine sauces, brandy on Christmas pudding (yuck, and I can always taste the burntness - my new word), rum babas, etc etc.

I agree with you, lots of cookery classes seem to use alcohol - personally, I think they mask the taste of their mistakes! lol

I know that a very dear alanon friend was in total shock at a social evening, when her hubby ate some sherry trifle - nothing happened, if he noticed it, he never said, and did not go back to the bottle. We all have enough to worry about, without these "secret" ingredients, I have found Christmas puddings, allegedly alcohol-free, to contain cider.

Don't know the answer to your problem, if it was me, I would find another gift. My daughter - sober 5 and half years - with AA - is very much against the "alcohol-free wines, etc", her feeling is that it gives you a taste, a temptation, and it is a trap.

I am very interested in your post, and hope to hear how things go on. Please keep us posted.

Finally, the one place your A would get E, S and Hope.... is AA - they have all been though these probs, maybe she could think about that.

Lots of love,

Flora
xxxx

PS This could be a great business idea for your A! If she can find a way to achieve top results without the alcohol, there is a market - I would buy a recipe for a Christmas cake without brandy, dont like using orange or apple juice to keep it moist.......

kitty · ~*Service Worker*~

This came from the link Pixel posted above:

"James Peterson, a cookbook writer who studied chemistry at the University of California at Berkeley, mentioned it in his encyclopedic cookbook, Sauces (Canada, UK). He says you need to cook a sauce for at least 20 to 30 seconds after adding wine to it to allow the alcohol to evaporate. And there is some sense to that, since alcohol evaporates at 172°F (78°C), so any sauce or stew that is simmering or boiling is certainly hot enough to evaporate the alcohol.

We still weren’t satisfied though. We recalled when we have flambéed foods that it often takes at least a minute for the flames to die out, a sign to us that the alcohol is gone. So we dug around online, and got in touch with various government agencies and trade groups that represent wine and spirits manufacturers.

What we found out has really surprised us. The conventional wisdom accepted by just about everyone in the food world is that all the alcohol you add to a dish evaporates or dissipates during cooking. It’s wrong. In fact, you have to cook something for a good three hours to really eradicate all traces of alcohol. And some cooking methods are less effective at removing alcohol than just letting it stand out uncovered overnight.

A study conducted by the US Department of Agriculture’s Nutrient Data Laboratory calculated the percentage of alcohol remaining in a dish based on various cooking methods. The results are as follows: "

Preparation Method Percent of Alcohol Retained

alcohol added to boiling liquid & removed from heat = 85%

alcohol flamed = 75%

no heat, stored overnight = 70%

baked, 25 minutes, alcohol not stirred into mixture = 45%

baked/simmered, alcohol stirred into mixture:

15 minutes = 40% ; 30 minutes = 35%; 1 hour = 25%; 1.5 hours = 20%; 2 hours = 10%; 2.5 hours 5%

"Now, it may be that the amount of alcohol in a dish is modest to start with, but the fact that some of the alcohol remains could be of significant concern to recovering alcoholics, parents, and others who have ethical or religious reasons for avoiding alcohol. "

I apologize for any confusion, as I stated in my post some ppl don't like the flavorings of certain alcohols; extracts do contain alcohol; "non-alcoholic beer" does have .5-1% alcoholic content; no one can know what will send a recovering Alcoholic or Addict into full blown alcoholism; and I respectfully stated my own opinion, take what you like & leave the rest... you have to make up your own mind, all I said was make two or ask your A.

Very touchy subject... glad I went to the site Pixel posted & learned something!!!

God Bless & Good Luck, love, -K

-- Edited by kitty at 18:44, 2005-12-19

beaglegal · Newbie

Thank you for replying. I suspected that there was a strong possibility that alcohol would still be present.

The cooking course is "winter soups" and one of the soups that the class would be cooking is a beer-cheese soup. She loves homemade soup and I thought that this was the perfect gift until I saw the beer-cheese soup listed.

I can't chance it. Even though it has been 3 1/2 years, I clearly remember what it was like when she was drinking.

Karilynn · ~*Service Worker*~

Beaglegal,

Love that name! Welcome!

Kitty is right. As an avid cook, and having worked with caterers and chef's in the past, most of the alcohol does burn off according to Kitty's post. My husband and I love to make French Onion Soup, the way Julia Child did it. That includes white wine and Vermouth. Eventhough he is recovering I am not comfortable using it in the house. So I skip that part and find other ways to deepen the flavors using other techniques.

Would I deliberately put temptation in his way? Of course not. Certainly the Beer and Cheese Soup is tasty (I don't even like beer) but I would avoid that. Now that he is living apart (so that we both can concentrate on our own recovery) I cook with wine but in smaller quantities and never keep the bottle out. When I know that he will be home, I remove it.

Just remember one thing (my A had to remind of this): it is ultimately their responsibilty to take or not take that first drink. If they really want to drink, they don't need an excuse. For some people the triggers are actually chemical for my A it is more emotional. I'm glad she has so much sobriety time. Good for her.

Live strong,
Karilynn

Flora123 · Senior Member

I loved this topic. Many thanks to Kitty for her research. If anyone does come up with good replacements for the booze in food, I hope they will put up another post.

I was looking for a New Year card, for some recovering alcoholics - it took me hours to find one without a champagne bottle, or a glass of something in the picture!

Lots of love,

Flora
xxxx

kokyuho · Newbie

A friend of mine is an AA member and clinician at an inpatient clinic. He asked me to work on this problem: cooking with wine without the alcohol.

I'm developing an alcohol-free, dehydrated wine for cooking. While not a perfect culinary solution, I believe it will add the essence and color of cooking wine, without the alcohol.

I'm looking for folks who like to cook and would be willing to try this solution, once I run the first batches. If you would be interested in testing this product, please contact me at: admin@thecoscos.com

Thank you.

Ben

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