Advice for a newbie - Al-Anon Family Group

SecondChance · Newbie

Advice for a newbie

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Second Chance,

Alcoholism is an illness. Its effects can be catatrophic if it is not arrested... but an alcoholic in permanent recovery can be the salt of the earth.

Many people in caring professions- teaching, nursing or social work can have issues of- codependency; mixing up their natural desire to

help others with their personal lives.

It is worth a good look at imo...

The 2 year rule is a 'rule of thumb'- and results can vary- depending when someone in recovery achieves a measure of maturity. Another

'rule of thumb' is that at the time a person starts to drink or drug their maturity ceases.

There is nothing at all wrong with building a relationship with someone in recovery imo...

Thinking about joining Alanon would be a good move! aww

my penny'orth,

DavidG.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Second Chance and welcome to the board...let me add that the chances are that he has been addictively drinking longer than 2 years. Including the 2 replapses 5 months of being alcohol free isn't sobriety its a reprieve of sorts and not sobriety. Alcoholism affects the mind, body, spirit and emotions...Sobriety must exist on all those levels at all the same time in order for it to be true sobriety. What I learned was that if sobriety didn't exist on all 4 levels all at the same time and the person wasn't drinking the term to use is "dry" not sober.

Alcoholics are not "normal" people unless I include "abnormally normal" in the same phrase. I was born and raised from both sides of my families in this disease and am a recovering from alcoholism person myself. We are very different people indeed. Not bad...different.

Glad to have you here and hope you find face Al-Anon meetings in your area to get literature and the stories from others who have been in relationships with alcoholics. Keep coming back (((((hugs))))) smile

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome,I invite you to read,"Getting Them Sober" by toby Rice Drew, volume one.

As we know the best counselors are A's themselves. Experience is the key. I am so glad you found us. This book will help you.

I agree 100% with Jerry. This is a cunning disease. The person you mentioned is already not following a program by seeing someone. That in itself is a read flag.

Myself after lots of experience would not date an A even if they had been on program for 10 years. Though I may love them very much. Especially because if I was young, I would never want kids with them, never want to go through the relapse phases almost all go through.

Now I don't have the strength to go throught that pain again. It's a noncurable disease that gets worse and worse.'

For me it has to be, To Thing Own Self be True.

hugs and great thread,debilyn

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Sounds like you are approaching him, the issue of having a relationship, and his alcoholism as if it's a case study. Are you drawn to him out of a fascination and wanting to better understand the pathology or do you really think this is the relationship that is best for you? As a clinician for over 15 years, I can tell you that I spent a LONG time trying to play therapist in my relationships and it brought me absolutely nothing but frustration when I couldn't fix the other person and I also couldn't fix myself. I needed spiritual solutions and help from other people.

You have lots of time to decide if this person is worthy of committing yourself to. I got in a relationship at 2 months sober because I was so highly codependent. I came into AA at the same time as a break up with my long term partner (who was also an alcoholic) of 7 years. Hence, I reasoned it was less of a change for me to be in a relationship than not in one. The truth was that I was scared to be my own person and I wanted to cling to someone else as a method to slow down what I saw as changes that were happening that were too frightening and scary to go through on my own.

Well, I got what I wanted. The relationship didn't make me relapse, but it did slow my growth down. That relationship lasted about a year. It was a pretty ridiculous relationship in retrospect and I was just using the person to avoid my own fears. Furthermore, he had a multitude of his own issues and I had not progressed in sobriety long enough to know who I was and what boundaries were right for me. So that whole dating experience prior to 1 year sober was a pretty big bust. Oh well.

So as a clinician, I will suggest that you keep your work where it belongs...at work. You will have AMPLE opportunity to deal with people with serious problems in your career. Don't actively chase it in your homelife. If you do, you won't have the energy to do it in your career. Been there, done that. As an alcoholic, I would tell you that I needed about 2 years sober to be able to have enough maturity to have a relationship that was not fraught with drama and BS. Take your time before leaping into any commitment if you do decide to keep dating this person. Ask yourself why you don't deserve a relationship with a person that really has their crap together.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Right now you know that he's been active in AA for five months. You also know that he has had two full-blown relapses and a serious enough addiction that several weeks in rehab were called for. So you know that despite being in recovery, he is vulnerable to bad relapses -- not just once but more than once -- and that a while of sobriety doesn't assure continued sobriety.

What I've noticed about myself and other partners of alcoholics is that we don't run when the red flags go up. It's like the horror movies where the serial killer is on the loose and the teenagers decide, "Let's all split up and look for him in the dark!" And one teenager hears the sounds of a knife being sharpened in a room, so what do they do? Do they get the heck out of there and call the police? No -- they put on a determined expression and open the door to the room. The only difference between that and my experience trying to deal with alcoholics is that movies aren't real. I don't mean that they came after me with a knife (though others have had that happen), but that the destruction was terrible and long-lasting. So what is it about us where we stay -- we keep opening that door -- when healthy people run away?

For me it was a whole range of distorted assumptions. "But he's X and Y and I've always wanted that -- I love those things! And that's what matters." "But my feelings are so strong. If my feelings are strong, I'm helpless before them. I want to do this, so I couldn't possibly stop myself." "I bet it wouldn't be so bad. I can handle it. I can handle what other people can't." "I bet I could help him. I'm especially gifted that way." "I deserve a little bit of happiness after everything I've been through." "There aren't any other available men out there anyway. Why shouldn't I have someone for a while??" "I'll just get a little bit involved, and then if it's not working out I'll end it." (Ha! I bet heroin addicts say that too.) "No one else would want me, so I better seize this opportunity." When other people say things like that, I think, "How could they believe that?" But they seem so real when you say them to yourself.

So this might be a time to figure out what you're saying to yourself that makes a relapsing, not-sober-very-long alcoholic who's going against his program (in starting to get involved with someone) seem like a reasonable bet. I know how powerful those feelings can be. I think when I have those that they're about what I need rather than who that particular person is. Wouldn't it be great if we could channel those feelings toward someone with all the attributes already in place to be a wonderful partner for us? It requires a lot of work and reminding!

I'm glad you're here and hope you'll come back. We're here no matter how things go.

Hoot Nanny · ~*Service Worker*~

SC: I just want to say welcome to MIP! It has helped me a lot & I find that dealing w/ alcoholics gets easier as I recover!

Kathleen

UK Jane · Veteran Member

welcome second chance, wow there is a lot of very powerful ES&H in these shares.

SecondChance · Newbie

Thank you for all the heartfelt and honest responses. This does all help a lot with putting things into perspective.

In response to pinkchip, and for clarification to other readers: I do apologize if this sounds like a case study. I am deeply immersed in my academic writing at the moment and make everything sound like a scholastic essay. I do not mean to approach any of this in such a light and am constantly working on and hyperaware of my own natural persona - the "helper." That being said, I am even more cautious with this potential relationship because I know my own limitations, needs and desires.

I will have a lengthy and in-depth talk with this person of interest and hope to discern more from that. After all, every person does deserve the dignity of such honest communication no matter their past. Once again, thank you ALL so much for the advice and warm welcome.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

One thing to keep in mind is that denial and deception go hand in hand with alcoholism. So if someone says, "My recovery is in its early stages, and I'm quite vulnerable, and also moody and worried about a relapse," that might be good honesty and a positive sign. If someone says, "My recovery is solid and there's no chance I'll relapse," that would be the denial -- and paradoxically that would be a bad sign. If they add, "Actually I never was a bad alcoholic, like those people, so recovery is no problem," that would be a very bad sign. Those last two things are high on the list of things alcoholics say when they're in the early stages of recovery and deep in denial.

katfshh · Senior Member

Welcome. I haven't been spending much time here the last few months, and I am realizing how much I need to spend time here. I would proceed with caution, a lot of caution. The A's move from person to person, and those of us that think we mean something wind up enabling them and hurting ourselves in the long run. I do know they tend to tell the truth, but they downplay the truth. They also blame their past and think that you or their new circumstances will make the difference. But, it doesn't. Wherever they go, they take themself with them. It's tough, I am struggling right now. I miss my A. My logical mind tells me that I saved my own life by ending things. But, he has a new girlfriend, we broke our engagement and he moved out July 16th, he left while he was drunk. He stayed sober for 90 days once he moved to his buddy's house. His buddy is in recovery and wouldn't let him stay there if he was drinking. Before the last relapse he was sober for a year. The longest ever for him being sober was 3 years. He is 47, he first went to AA at 21.

This new girlfriend took him to rehab today, bought him new underware and pants and helped him pack. She is doing what I did. But, she doesn't know that! I am sure he is telling her that she is wonderful and the support system he never had. I am frustrated and jealous, but I know the truth. But, my disease screws with my head. Why do I know what she is doing? because he called me today, and asked to come home after rehab. Does she really mean anything to him? Doubtful. Is she laying in bed tonight thanking God that he wised up and went into rehab. I am sure she is. She is me, she is me many times over...5 monthis is nothing. I hate saying that, but 5 months I have seen, 1 year I have seen, 3 years....

Just my viewpoint and there are people that do it, but it is a true gamble for those of us on this end.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

SecondChance wrote:
Thank you for all the heartfelt and honest responses. This does all help a lot with putting things into perspective.
Once again, thank you ALL so much for the advice and warm welcome.

Hi, and good to get your feedback...

In Alanon we do not give advice, just opinions... ...it is great to see the responses here... classic Alanon- a form or brainstorming. As we say- 'take what you like and leave the rest'. :>) DavidG.

Tasha · Veteran Member

Oh wow - excellent thread! Mattie - wow! Everyone!

This is amazing (wink wink HP) because my husband and I just had this discussion this morning! Like an hour ago! I went to him and said "You know, maybe you should consider the fact that I'm a huge risk to be with, and get out while you're still young. The statistics are really bad for me to stay sober, and at 7 months sober, I feel like I've really got it, but I could relapse tomorrow. People are droppin like flies all around me." : ( pouty face at my own dreary statistics". My motives were not reassurance and fishing for it like they once would have been, but purely for him to start and think about this fact!

He looked at me, and said "you're not a statistic". I told him that was amazing of him to think that way, but maybe not the most logical. He said "it's my choice" and he's right. I can't control him. I can't make him skinny by eating less, and I'm not working my program if I think I can.

From there, I have to remember that I am not just a statistic, and no one knows what's in my heart but me and God. I love this man enough to let him go, and he knows it. He also loves me enough to let me go - and I know it. I have the program, my HP and these boards to thank for that. It works if you work it - and when anyone tells you what to do - they are interfering with God's will. I am not God, I don't know what you should do, nor do I think I should meddle with God's plan for you. When I start telling you "run forest run" I am playing God, and not working my program.

So when you get to a point of loving this man enough that you'd let him go - and he'd do the same - then maybe you can decide from a good place if you should continue the relationship.... but like Jerry says - maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about or recovery yet myself... I'm only 7 months sober.

I know that today I'm very grateful for where I am, who I'm with, and what this program has done for me and my family. What others think of me and my recovery is none of my business. I am doing this for me.

-- Edited by Tasha on Saturday 10th of November 2012 02:30:07 PM

alcfriend · Newbie

Second Chance, I really think you are on the right journey by posting the question here. Only you can decide if this relationship is right for you. Al-anon helped me stay in a difficult relationship for three years with my now ex-wife. We divorced nine years ago because her addictions escalated into abusive behaviors on every level. I have continued to go to meetings and stay connected with friends in the program.

I will say this, if you really want to add a few kudos to your counseling abilities, you can learn more from the school of hard knocks than within any textbook. It's one thing to learn about alcoholism and another to actually be involved in a relationship with an alcoholic.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.