The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
If all you nice Alanoners don't want your alcoholic to lie to you, don't ask him any stupid questions.
"Where were you last night?" or "What happened to your paycheck?" or "Why do you smell like Avon's Roses Roses?" Or my all-time favorite one: "WHY DO YOU KEEP DRINKING??!!"
We can't answer you. We just can't!! Because we don't know how to tell OURSELVES the truth! (until we start recovering.)
I myself have a hard time dealing with alcoholics too, and I am one! So go figure!
Hmmmm working through it...so which side of the double did this suggestion come from? Sounds Alky by the use of "stupid" questions to me. That nailed my Al-Anon double right on, (a reaction by God my Al-Anon sponsor would have teased) and then I'm on the otherside of the fence on this board. On the AA board I would have just passed it by as normal for my alcoholic side...that is. I never answered those questions because I didn't have to, the arrogance of addiction and then later on because I was too afraid to, the compulsion and addiction riding in the same car. I was looking for a solution which would allow me to still drink without control and without negative consequences. My spouses and family had the ability and the opportunity to ask those questions and they respected that I might have an answer which gave them hope; Never happened. My exspouses were all addicted also...we didn't ask each other why questions we mostly did...when, with who, where and why not.
Compassionately...there are no stupid questions on this side of the MIP fence...the victims of this disease have a voice and the time, ability and facility to use it, ask away and help me reach my bottom.
During my active addiction I would have said "I drink because I like it and it's fun." After it was obviously causing problems, I would have said "I drink because it relieves all my stress." Towards the end, I would have said "I drink cuz life sucks."
Now in retrospect, I know. I drank to not feel feelings, because I was scared of everything, I didn't want to grow up. I didn't want to be responsible....I was selfish and emotionally immature.
ESH from the other side of the disease is always welcome. I must agree with Jerry, I too felt that the post was out of line and the attitude expressed was demeaning to al anon member. I understand the intention of the post was to suggest that we do not ask questions we already know the answers to and that idea is an alanon slogan from way back
We who have found alanon are suffering and living in extremely painful circumstances. We have witnessed our dreams fall apart and our children neglected. We feel helpless and lost so -naturally we want answers and will try any approach to stop the insanity.
Successful alanon tools gently suggests possible actions. We do not demand or use sarcasm to get people to do what we want. It does not work.
I figured some would take offense to this but it was meant to be funny. I have many times myself tried to demand answers from drunk people but understand today it can't be done. It's not worth trying to reason with an active alcoholic. That's my point. Don't bother. Just decide what's best for you.
I've read on the AA board sometimes when there's a slow day on here. And I have noticed that As sometimes use a sort of gallows humor with each other. There is very little humor on this board. Most AlAnons are too hurt to find much to laugh about around the situation. We're a whole other breed of cat. And what may seem obvious to somebody coming from another perspective may just not resonate with us at all. And may even hurt our feelings. I am sure that was not your intent.
Temple
__________________
It's easy to be graceful until someone steals your cornbread. --Gray Charles
Most recovering alcoholics are also Adult Children and Codependents. We deal with many active alcoholics ourselves. It says in AA's big Book that we are deadly serious about this disease, but we also have "levity" (humor). Humor and lightheartedness are principles for all human beings to live by, and they should be added into recovery. They offset pain.
I was very reactive in my response, and I apologize. It did strike a nerve with me for the reasons more eloquently mentioned above. For me, there IS a point in asking those questions. I did not know it at the time, but it was one of the many things that brought me to my knees and therefore...to my recovery. I am proud of myself and my program, and have to a place of gratitude abo ut my experiences with my exA. I spent many years being lied and manipuplated to, and most importantly...being gaslighted and told my feelings were irrational and unimportant. Im still healing. Did I ever get a truthful answer? No. But, I got what I needed.
I have had the same experience! I am an adult child of such dysfunction that psychiatrists have told me that my role and situation in my family is "absolutely devastating". But like you CDK, I found the 12 steps to recovery. Also like you, I tried all my life to get my father to validate me, to tell me that I wasn't the "problem" after all. He can't do it. He just can't. I understand that today. he would fall apart. So I have choices as an adult, which is why I'm on this board in the first place. I have known such extreme pain over this. Because I couldn't get my father's approval, i tried to get it from others which brought me to relationships with abusive men etc...yes...devastating. But I have healed. Thanks to Alanon, I am learning tools to deal with other sick people, whether they actually drink or not.
I am the one who should apologize for my top-post. It was something I heard on a CD and it sounded funny when the man said it. The word "stupid" can cause people to get sensitive. Sorry.
Working when I first got into Al-Anon and was sitting in my first meeting (I think) I was crazy and not stupid. I got the pronoun mentioned in the 4th step directly and had my first major reaction. "...of ourselves". "Why should I/we do an inventory of ourselves", I thought..."She's the bitch...I didn't cause this. It's her fault!!" It made me angry and didn't scare me off thank God. It took me a long time to get up to living the steps and I didn't do the 4th straight away or straightly from the start...My first sponsor kicked me out of her house because I came with empty paper and wanted her to do it for me. I still didn't know that I didn't know what it was all about and then I started to do "the" program differently and let go of "my program". I got the suggested sponsor and started again and he asked me that defined question we have to face in Al-Anon..."What was your part in it"? In total I ended up doing 6 4th steps...the last one directing me to find the "tap root" of all of my character defects.
My ego was so fragile and fearful that apologizing or saying "I'm sorry for that" was like facing the devil and then as suggested and later improved I learned how to replace fear with love and apologizing became love in action. How awesome that such a healing participation is soooo difficult to get out and when I got it out I was free...at last, free at last...Thank God I'm free at last.
I did not get offended by your post, These days I can see the humor in it. 20 years ago not so I was hurting way to deeply. I can look back & laugh at some of the crazy, insane things I did reacting to my ex Alcoholic husband. I can even laugh at myself dealing with my alcoholic son & how I tried to protect him, forgetting that one cannot control, cure or cause an-others disease. Most Al anon members are really hurting & really struggling to manage financially, trying to make sense of this horrible disease that is destroying their hopes & dreams. When I look back to those days, there was no humor in my life, nothing was funny, not knowing how I was going to buy the next loaf of bread or milk for my 3 babies, I shutter, but some how, some way, with my HP I managed to pay the mortgage, utilities & feed my kids. Now when I see other young parents dealing with the same things I went through my insides get all twisted into knots for them, because I remember the pain & fear. I thank God everyday for Al Anon & for all you wonderful people in MIP
__________________
Icie
"Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die..."
I'm so grateful to hear more about your experiences in Alanon, as it is new to me. I did the 12 steps in AA and the whole thing was also about looking at my part also. Humor helps me get through things today. I just read Just For Today and it talked about not having to have all my ducks in a row.
I am glad to hear your experience. funny, I'm such an adult child and codependent that I over-apologize for things. I drank over things like that.
I don't know about anyone else and since becoming active in the AA open meetings as well as alanon something that I have found intriguing is just listening to the difference in me. I know that I took things sooooo seriously and still can be accussed of such outrageous behavior from time to time that I remember walking into an alanon meeting seeing people laughing and realizing the last time I had truly laughed had been such a long time ago. I really didn't think I had anything to smile or laugh about. I know I thought WTH is wrong with these people?! They have to be far crazier than I ever thought of being!! There is nothing funny about this situation!!! I was so emeshed in the current chaos or the chaos that was waiting to happen I literally lost my ability to smile for more than a nano second every 4th tuesday on a month with a blue moon in it. It was only with alanon that I was able to remember that OMGosh .. so much of life really is funny, even during the pain of it all .. it can be so ridiculous that I can't help except laugh because who would believe 1/2 of what happened during that time.
Now if I don't laugh at least once a day it's an off day .. so there has to be lots and lots of smiles, laughter and sometimes a few tears .. that is by far a better day than any with only one smile or laugh.
You know how many alanoners it takes to screw in a light bulb?? None .. they stand around and watch it screw itself. :)
As far as asking an A questions I already know the answer to, it depends on the situations and circumstances. If I'm asking my STBAX a question I already know the answer to he should be concerned, I'm specifically looking for confirmation. in the beginning all I did was drive myself loopy and it was a futile exercise.
Hugs P :)
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I was always like a lawyer.... I never asked a question I didn't already know the answer to. But I HAD to have that answer to verify what I already knew. And I had to know if it was worth lieing about. My alkie hubby would never answer the questions but he was real good at changing the subject. I had to stop talking to him at all.
And now, even though he has been sober for 12 years, it is such an ingrained habit with me to not talk to him or ask questions, I still don't. I watch the actions and don't hear the words.
And I think you mix up the meanings of the words "can't" and "won't". A baby "can't" walk, but a stubborn 5 yr. old "won't" walk. I think of a drinking alcoholic as the 5 yr. old. He knows how to answer the questions, but his brain won't let him. He has to protect the disease.
Pushka, I love that lightbulb joke. They stand around and watch it screw itself. Love it!!!
I think the disease of addiction is a pretty slippery one. To get to the point of seeing the person for what they are, an addict, doesn't happen overnight. I would not call anyone stupid for their way of dealing with it till then. Personally some of us have lived with addicts/ alcoholics and dysfunctional people all our lives. Coming to terms with that doesn't happen overnight either. Of course we can all lay it on the line as being a very clear issue but alcoholism is actually very very complicated. The issue is that anyone who is around an alcoholic is so affected by their behavior that their thinking and ability to calibrate the situation isn't exactly stellar. In some ways it is like living in a war zone, whatever way you turn isn't going to be an easy ride out. No one would suggest that any one in a war zone has a choice about getting in there or how they get out unscathed. For me the irony is that no matter how much I distance myself from alcoholics at some level different people who are alcoholics come into my life. I've worked around them, lived around them, dealt with them in so many ways. Every single instance requires a different coping mechanism. I don't think it is possible to extricate myself from every situation where I encounter an alcoholic. Furthermore I don't think there is a black and white version of what constitutes wisdom, clarity and astuteness when you are around something as cataclysmic as alcoholism.
No one gets out of this thing called life free. I think it's time we stop blaming others. We are responsible for the way we feel. Everyone is affected by everyone in this world, "alcoholic" or not. At some point we have to grow up and accept responsibility for our own maturity. I've been affected by people who are and are not drinkers. In 12-step fellowship we have a way out. God did not bring us here so we could remain victims of this world. He gave us a solution. Whether we want to accept it or not is up to us.
