The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
You got it, my friend. the idea that "I matter too." My husband said the same stuff, "you won't let it go, the problem is you." He did say he was sorry and he loved me, but his actions never changed. The actions and words never matched up, that is what caused my confusion. Then they told me to BELIEVE his actions, not his words. Finally, I got clarity.
I really like what's been posted so far, I, too, believe forgiveness is something I do for me, it will set me free. obviously, an angry person does not have peace. When I worked my inventory (a must-do with every resentment) I discovered I played a part in my own suffering, I just didn't know it. I discovered my dark side in that inventory and at first, I was sooooo angry at myself. My sponsor told me I had to forgive myself.... I didn't know any better.... I did the best I could with what I knew. Then it shifted, I decided it was the same as him. He just doenst' know what he is doing, he is in the dark, he is lost. I can forgive him because he is just like I was.
So I look at forgiveness as peace-building. I choose to forgive for my own peace. Could I live with his abuse anymore? I couldn't. The amends had to go to ME, I had to make it right for me. He was who he was, doing the best he could, but me going back to volunteer for more was harming me. I had to accept that and make it right for me.
Working the SOLUTION, which is picking up the al-anon tool kit that has been placed at my feet - brings miracles. Keep working it, Trudy, I am seeing miracles in you too, and it gives me goosebumps ((big hugs))
-- Edited by glad lee on Tuesday 16th of October 2012 09:36:54 AM
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
Forgiveness does NOT mean accepting the unacceptable....It means I forgive you because I understand you are sick, you have a addiction a disease of the mine, body & spirit..... I forgive my alcoholic son & my ex alcoholic husband I love both of them!....I will not be part of their illness, I will not let them abuse me, use me, blame me, manipulate me, con me....As long as they are not getting treatment, if their lips are moving they are lying. Pay no attention to what they say, all the crap & garbage, it is their actions & behavior that will tell you how sick they really are or if they are getting well.
-- Edited by Icie on Tuesday 16th of October 2012 10:30:37 AM
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Icie
"Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die..."
As AH and I are currently seperated and I am trying to figure out if I want to stay married to him, I have had to do a lot of soul searching. When I tell him my hesitations (all the years of lying, hiding, verbal abuse, etc.) he keeps coming back at me with "well if you can't forgive me then that's your problem" kind of stuff. I think, like a child, he truly believes this really is just about forgiveness. In the past I think I have taken this idea of forgiveness and used it as a crutch to keep myself in a bad marriage, thinking it made me a bad person if I couldn't just forgive and move on, isn't that what we are taught in Sunday school?
So the more I think about it I am coming to terms with what forgiveness does NOT mean. It does not mean I will endure infidelity, it does not mean I will tolerate lying and manipulation, it does not mean people get to treat me badly and I just have to 'forgive' them and allow them to continue to hurt me. I am trying to find forgiveness in my heart for my husband, but forgiving doesn't mean forgetting, and while I hope to forgive him someday I'm not sure that I can be married to him. I don't think I can live my life looking over my shoulder waiting for the shoe to drop. For ten years I have heard over and over that he is starting fresh and won't do (insert bad behavior here) anymore because he loves me. Each time he went back on his promise and found new and devasting ways to hurt me and further destroy our marriage. I am trying very hard to look at the entire inventory of our marriage and use that as my guidestick, not his words. It is a struggle and there are days I panic and want to take him back because it is what I know, but then I try to think of what a 'healthy' person would do, and I keep coming back to a healthy person would get out of this marriage. Anyway, just some Tuesday morning thoughts. Hope everyone has a positive day.
Forgiveness is what will set you free. Boundaries are what will keep your AH from being able to hurt you again. You are right you don't have to forget. There are a lot of great readings in both One Day at a Time and in Courage to Change on forgiveness as well as how to not let the past keep repeating.
I hear you and I too have struggled with the idea of "Forgiveness". I found that I had to first be willing to let go of my anger, and sadness over the incident . When HP had lifted both , I found that acceptance followed as did forgiveness.
Today I can easily speak of my husband's infidelity, reckless spending, never being a father without judgement, anger or sadness. The behavior just is a part of my past that I learned how to deal with. as long as I did a 4th Step on the situation, owned my part in each situation.
I have learned from the past and will use that wisdom to live by in the future.For me Forgiveness means I let go of anger and accept the situation and learn the lesson of the situation.
For me, forgiveness actually came easy, but trust and fear of all of his 'stuff' happening again was what really keeps me stuck. It sounds like you are ready to set some boundaries. Remember this saying: nothing changes if nothing changes. I have to repeat that to myself over and over again frequently. I'm not sure I can ever forget because I can't remove my mind from my head, LOL, but forgiveness comes with time and patience and letting go. Be patient with yourself.
The only time when I truly was able to forgive my ex-A was after we broke up. While together, I was just overlooking or accepting. Forgiveness involves being at the point of being able to say "I'm okay now and I forgive you for what you did." That would not happen if:
1. You don't do what you need to do to "be okay"; and 2. If events are not in the past (meaning what he did)...There is no forgiveness for "what you do" that is either acceptance or ignoring or something different. The things you need to forgive him for have to be in the past.
So, I guess I'm thinking that you can forgive him, but his actions have caused you to not trust him. Forgiveness and trust are different things.
Trudy, do your best to remember that he is a busted person just trying to put 2 and 2 together. His ego is fragile (but also overblown) and all he knows is manipulating others. For now, he needs to blame you or make it simple in order to not use drugs/alcohol. That's his issue. He can make you out to be a demon if it keeps him sober for now. It won't stay that way if he's really going to progress in the program. Don't fall into his traps.
It's not helping you to put so much energy into fending off and reasoning through what an unstable, illogical, newly recovering person says. Most everything that comes out of his mouth pertaining to you is garbage. It's going to take a couple of years of hard work for him to grow up.
I know you want to be a faithful, sensitive, and caring spouse....and when you hear "It's on you to forgive me" it hits a nerve like you are a bad person for not sticking by him. As enablers we forget that the other person has already smashed our boundaries and broken their vows to deserve that trust, sensitivity, and caring. Our trust, sensitivity, and caring is better spent on ourselves and people who reciprocate it rather than those who eat it up like greedy monsters and demand more (i.e., like addicts/alcoholics do). Staying with him would not be "wrong" but don't be shamed into it. It sounds like his ploy isn't working anyhow.
is it like, just because an incident is over you are supposed to just forgive and forget the hurt and move onto the next one? Forgiveness has to be asked for, sincerely, and the sincerity believed before it can be granted. oh, sorry you got hurt, wheres my fishing pole.... just don't cut it.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
I agree it is not about accepting unacceptable behavior and it can end up being that on accident. So that's where we monkey with our boundaries to figure out how not to absorb their crap (sorry, that's just how I see it from my ex).
I engage in discussion with my ex as long as he's reasonable. The MOMENT he is abusive, rude, condescending or confrontational - I cease all contact. He is learning, he now only does it once, waits a couple of days and then corresponds nicely with me again. He has yet to apologize after he's a jerk but I figure the best he can do is quit being a jerk quickly.
I forgive him but cannot be with him because he has the mentality that other people are beneath him and it's acceptable to treat people as if they are stupid. He won't change that and so he's an ex. If he had tried to change that things might have been different but staying with him meant accepting bad behavior over and over. :(
For me forgiveness is the opposite of resentment...I hate feeling resentful toward anyone including myself and so I practice forgiveness. They are polar opposites for me. I cannot feel both at the same time. When I feel forgiveness it is to free me and doesn't do anything for the alcoholic addict. Forgiveness isn't the same as acceptance. Great post and responses (((hugs)))
Boy I stuggle with this as well. I have no ESH, but just wanted to say WOW! Really great thread! Really great ESH. This is getting printed and posted for me as this is something I really need to work on and gain more understanding.
Sending you so much love and support and HUGS! I can SOOOOO relate to your post. You are not alone.
hi tdudy ... im going through a very similar situation and i think you have put some pretty wize words in there :), just reading that has helped me out in my situation. so thanks for putting on the post.... i hopr that you can get through this as i know full well how hard it can be. ive been to alanon meetings once but it wasnt for me ... have u done the 12 step programme ? and if you have does it help .... just feel like im on an uneven keel all the time ?
Davie, I do go to face to face meetings, they provide a fellowship much like these boards and combined it all helps with the feelings of loneliness. I thought when the day came to leave my AH I would just feel relief, I am surprised at all the other emotions involved. I am trying hard to really think thru my feelings and my past behaviors so I can make better future choices but boy is it hard, especially when you still love the person. Keep the faith! Ts
