I am with you on this one. I am equally baffled. People don't choose to have certain biochemical tendencies or predispositions, but it doesn't mean they have to follow it to the gates of hell, so to speak. That's not to see it isn't a herculean struggle once it takes over - it is. But how does one get to the point where it takes over? I have these discussions with AH who is now over a year sober. He tries to explain to me what happened when he was in the midst of it, and how he had no choice at the time, and I know that neurologically he was totally dependent on it then. And yes, his brain and body were totally addicted. However, I still believe he could have stopped it earlier. He doesn't think so, but I remember an RA friend of his who came over to talk to him when he was in the middle of it, and the friend said "you can choose your bottom." Noone ever put a gun to someone's head to make them drink. I don't think any alcoholic can get better unless they choose to, and luckily there are lots of examples of people who did that.

 

((((Christy))))...the closing statement of our meetings in part says "if you keep and open mind...you will find help".  For me that mean't letting go of my impressions and attitudes about the alcoholic and alcohol and alcoholism and just listen, listen, listen...open mindedly without judgments and old rational.  When I was confused and crazy it mean't to me that I didn't know and was relying on the same brain that had no information and solutions.

I learned the American Medical Associations definition of alcoholism in Al-Anon and that taught me alot.  I listened to the fellowship talk about "Cunning, Powerful and Baffling" and that helped.  I memorized compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body and therefore the alcoholic has no choice on whether they drink or not or when or how much and I got more because I could listen with my eyes when alcohol and drugs took my wife out.  I learned about how it touches every organ and cell in the body and sets up a painful withdrawal if and when the alcoholic attempts to stop and how the alcoholic hates the disease and sets up (with the help of the chemical) impossible self plans and promises to control, curb and then cease all drinking and then has the next one.  I learned that it affects everyone it comes into contact with and that as a spouse of an alcoholic/addict I also affected everyone I came into contact with.  I wanted to know about it intimately because I was sooo astounded by the whole thing and so I went to college to study alcoholism and addiction (I recommend it to others) the technical stuff and like Aloha mentioned I also focused on genetics and the genetic markers where the disease passes from generation to generation and how the lock stays locked until the key finds the keyhole and the first drink is taken and I learned that this disease is progressive...not only within the life of one alcoholic and also thru the family tree.  I was turned on by my grand-mother at the age of 9 and neither she or I knew what was happening.  The only person in the room who saw the shadow of alcoholism pass into my life was my mother and as hard as she fought to prevent my grand-mother from giving us that thick, strong, cultural wine and she lost the fight and the disease of alcoholism passed into me on all levels...mind, body, spirit and emotions. 

Once an alcoholic...always an alcoholic.  Alcoholism doesn't go dormant...when the alcoholic stops drinking the disease counts the number of drinks that have not been taken and if the alcoholic returns to drinking they do not continue from where they started drinking...they continue from where they left off and that is one reason the relapse is so very rapid and stunning.  I have never lost the compulsion to drink...I just don't right now and I hang with relapsers in my recovery program because that is the information I need to have today...how the compulsion becomes the behavior even when the desire is not present.   Cunning, Powerful and Baffling. 

Is there something in your life on some level that you are concerned about doing and want to stop and still haven't yet have done even more?  Done something against your better judgement that might even be fatal sometime?  That is the alcoholics life...the behavior winning out over the will not to.  My early sponsor helped me to understand that alcoholism is a four level disease and that if I wasn't recovering on all levels all at the same time...I wasn't recovering.  Thank God for him and that lesson because I work my recovery program...both rooms...mind, body, spirit and emotions all at the same time.  Each level affects the other all the time.

It is almost impossible to wrap my head around this disease and find serenity.  I find serenity with "acceptance".  I no longer question...today I just accept and then move into my own progressive growth and serenity.  I accept the fact of the disease and what it has done and continues to do.  I didn't cause this, I have never been able to control it, I won't find and am not the cure for it.  When I try to figure it out...that means it owns me and has cut my life short as it is doing to you and your alcoholic.  Your alcoholic sounds like is in the "end stages" of this fatal disease.  Alcohol is running his show...like it or not...that is the reality and accepting reality is much better than denying it. 

I am also a recovering alcoholic and I will do for your alcoholic the only thing that I have seen help another alcoholic...pray that he runs out of drinking room, feels the full force of a painful bottom and the cries out to a God of his own understanding.  I do know that works because that is what happened for me.  The prayer is gone...you are included in it.  In support.  (((((hugs)))))

-- Edited by Jerry F on Thursday 4th of October 2012 01:55:23 AM

I understand it is a constant struggle, and I understand that the body goes through major physiological changes from drinking, and comes to depend on alcohol the same way it depends on food. I do get it. But, after having detoxed, why would you choose to start up again? And, when you realize that you are putting your family through sheer hell and have lost your job, all your money, etc., why would you still choose not to get help/treatment? How is being on the verge of losing everything that means anything to you not scary enough to make someone seek sobriety???? I know everyone's bottom is different, but I just do not get how so many A's can dig themselves deeper and deeper into a hole.

My aunt, who lived with us when I was growing up, was a Type I diabetic. Didn't ask for it, didn't do anything to cause it, and took insulin injections everyday to control it. She knew she had to, or she would die. But she was also an alcoholic who refused to give up drinking, and that combined with the diabetes was fatal. She died at the age of 48. Again, I don't get it. Why would you go through the pain and expenses involved in injecting yourself over and over again with a lifesaving drug, and then turn around and undo all of it by drinking?

I do have my vices. Right now, it's TV. It's my only source of entertainment, adult conversation, and escape from reality. I can't afford any other vices, and my appetite has gone out the window so chocolate isn't that important to me anymore. When I thought my boys had broken the television set last month, I was ready to throttle them. But, if I knew that I would lose my kids, my job, my health, my house, everything, if I kept my tv around, I would throw it out the window this second. Nothing is more important to me than my family...that's why this situation hurts so much, and makes me so incredibly angry.

I guess this is the thing that I continue to struggle with when it comes to accepting that I am powerless...I like to feel empowered. And to say things like 'he's powerless over it' and 'it's not a choice', to me, that sounds like it takes away someone's sense of empowerment, and if that happens, how do you begin to recover?

Hi MIP Family

Everyone has posted powerful responses to this question.  i would like to point out that John, Our Board Founder has posted a "Stickly" at the top of this Board that addresses this issue in a informative manner  Here is the link 

 STICKY: Why Alcoholism is "categorized/listed" as a disease by AMA (explained)

(Preview/Moderate)

-- Edited by hotrod on Friday 5th of October 2012 09:20:11 AM

I can understand your frustration holivex. I have only heard a few alcoholics actually try and state "I had a disease" to try and get off the hook for all the stupid and self-destructive choices they make. Generally, the disease model just promotes treatment.

I would never argue that there is not a matter of choice involved. For me, I did reach a point where I made a choice to enter into recovery. At 4 years sober, it would be a set of small choices (skip meetings, grow isolated) and then a major bad choice (pick up the first drink) that would lead to relapse.

I will tell you that the level of psychic pain for an alcoholic or drug addict seems so intense that it is painful for them to be sober. That doesn't let him or her "off the hook, but it feels like being tortured and the only thing that will make the torture stop, is alcohol. You'd think that being sober 3 weeks and post-detox would mean that you were free from that tortured state - it doesn't. The person has a leg up at that point cuz at least the physical addiction is lessened or gone but then they are still massively broken and in turmoil with regard to how to function in the world. They can't just push an "enjoy life" button or a "be normal now" button. Like Jerry said, it's cunning, baffling, and powerful. For me to learn to be remotely normal again, it took a couple years of daily AA meetings, calling my sponsor every day.....doing the steps. To stay functional, I still have to go to meetings and live by the principles of AA. In the first 18 months or so, I cried and bitched like a baby every time something stressful happened to me and I did this until my default changed to me coping with problems instead of running to a bottle. I nourished my spirit and let myself heal. The danger is that alcoholics will tend to go through a painful detox and think..."Wow. I'm so glad I'm cured now!" Um...no....after detox is when the serious emotional pain begins because it's time to face up and learn to cope. The person doesn't think "I will lose everything" necessarily when they feel so crappy and that everything is already lost (even when it isn't). When I drank - I just didn't care. I didn't care what I was losing or about any of that inner turmoil. It shut that part of me up and that was POWERFUL. That's why I drank more than anything....to not care and not feel things. Knowing that, I can tell you the thought isn't "I'm going to lose my family if I do this...What the heck! glug glug" It's more like "I am such a screw up. I am so unworthy of my family. The world sucks. Life is so unfair. I can't stand it! glug glug" That is what the inner thought process more resembles. It's massively selfish but doesn't extend to even acknowledging hurting others so much.

My biggest concern for you is that you not think "he chose alcohol over his family." It's really more of a tragedy than choices. If you need to be mad to move on, that is fine. It's not good for you to live that way forever though. He basically got attacked by a mental disorder that influenced him to make a series of crappy choices. It happened - it wasn't planned. Most importantly, it's not because of anything you or your kids did. It's not because you were not a better option than alcohol. Trust me, an alcoholic rarely gets the gift of clarity. You were always more important than alcohol. You just were not more powerful than it.

None of this means you shouldn't continue with the divorce or that he deserves you cutting him slack cuz as you know, enabling doesn't make him better and it hurts you too.

I asked my AA friend who is 10 years sober and an alcohol and substance abuse counselor.... This is the response i got:

Me: Why AFTER an addict gets sober, do they choose to drink or use again? Even if they know they will loose everything?

Friend: Well that's the million-dollar question dear. But addicts do two things, they either use drugs or they don't. And the ones that don't are an exception to rule. So there's many reasons that someone may go back to you using. But it's pretty complicated. After someone's been sober for a while they take back control, forget what it was really like. Their addiction tells them that they can handle just using a little here and there. Denial kicks in. Being abstinent from alcohol for a while is not the same as being sober, or being in recovery. If people aren't working a program of recovery, and their life is not getting better, then they will resort to their solution which is drugs and alcohol.

Friend: You see, when you take drugs and alcohol out of the life of an addict that's when life becomes unmanageable. Trying to exist and cope with no coping skills other than drugs and alcohol is overwhelming for them.

Me: I see. So they have to see the improvement to continue sobriety, or it's just not worth it?
Even having their family? It's not worth it?

Friend: Correct. Otherwise they would've just quit using or drinking a long time ago, if life automatically got better. You see, you're trying to use logic to explain what is illogical to those who don't suffer from addiction.
People can't just think their way out of addiction by rationalizing why not use. Just the opposite is true, they will rationalize and justify the reasons to use. And their addiction overpowers all logical thought. And they actually are in such denial again even after not drinking or using for a while, that they think they can do it differently, and that going back to drinking isn't going to destroy their lives, that they can control it..

Friend: So somebody who's in recovery, has to learn all over again how to cope with life, how to find happiness in things that they never thought would make them happy. They have to let go of resentments, overcome overwhelming fear.

Me: They do that through working the steps, and going to meetings and sharing...thats how they learn that?

Friend: Exactly. And going through a good treatment program and working with a counselor, those are other ways that they can work on those things. For some it takes more than just the steps, it takes counseling. And for many there may be an underlying mental illness that's going on, depression or anxiety that needs to be addressed.


I am not sure if this helps you at all...but it sure helped me understand a little bit... :)
dragonflys

OMG. What Jerry and Pinkchip said.

I am an alkie. I am just over 18 years sober. And I can tell you, those two summed it up pretty darn well.

Even after 18 years, I can tell you that I have NO IDEA why I got sober and the next person didn't. Even in AA, which is the best thing going for getting and staying sober, the stats are grim. I have heard that roughly 10% of the population is alcoholic. Of those, 10% get to AA at all. Of THOSE, another 10% get and stay sober. Grim indeed.

What I can tell you is alcoholism is fatal. Your DH *will* die of this. No question. It's an ugly disease, and it IS a disease, and it's fatal every.single.time. Unless he finds a way to get sober.
You can find a copy of "Under The Influence" on Amazon or Half.com...I highly recommend. It is a tiny book and it describes in great detail the physiology of alcoholism and what goes on in the brain and body systems. Unfortunately, by the time an alkie exhibits signs and symptoms of hir disease, s/he is so entrenched in it, there is just about no way out. And the ugly part is, the disease manifests in outward behavior as much as inward deterioration.

3 weeks is *nowhere near* the light at the end of the tunnel. I can tell you that from hindsight. 3 weeks is a mere baby in sobriety. Two years is a mere baby in sobriety! Even 18 years-- if one is not vigilant-- I know I can pick up today, or tomorrow, if I don't stay on my toes. As they say in AA, while I am in the rooms, my disease is out there in the parking lot doing pushups. Just waiting for me.

I would say read again Jerry's and Pinkchip's posts; they are spot-on. And go get that book. If you had the time you could read it in an hour. It's teeny. But gripping, and enlightening.

Good luck, hon. I hope he gets it. I hope you find serenity.