"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

Gingerbread81 · Member

Broken and confused

Gingerbread81 · Member

Hello all,

I posted on here once about my boyfriend who is an alcoholic; we are both 31. I have been with him for 6 years. Basically, it has been an on and off reltionship for many reasons (lying, not working, hanging out with friends all day and night, verbal abuse, crazy behavior and cheating). I have been so up and down for so long that I don't even know who I am. I tell myself that he doesn't want to change and I don't even know that he knows how to handle life. He has 2 kids-he spends time with one, but not the other. He rarely works, but any job he gets, he makes sure he can drink during the day. He owes almost 20,000 in child support and lost his license due to unpaid ticket (I just found this info out within the past few months). I have researched alcoholism, read the forums, tried to stay away (when he cheated I stayed away for 2 months), tried to love him, tried to push him away, but nothing works and I feel trapped an cannot break this. It gets more confusing by the day. In fact, the past year we have been together for about a week or two, then we fight for whatever reason and I don't hear or speak to him for a week. We make up and it happens again. It is killling me inside, as I don't even know if he cares. I kicked him out in January and he finally got an apartment with his two best friends and he lives below a bar. They literally party every night and they all barely work. A couple of weekends ago, we spent Friday night with family and it was good. Saturday, he started acting strange and distant. Sunday he flew off the handle and began screaming at me, telling me he's tired of me, and he needs space. I agree, I constantly nag him on finding a job, paying his child support, and working on his drinking so we can have a life together. I gave it a week and then called him sat, sun, and mon. On sat, he was crying saying he hates his friends and misses his daughter (mind you when she is here for the summer, he only spends about 2 days with her and then he sends her to his mom's or with me) and that he is so depressed. I was going to stop by to talk and he was drinking with the same friends he hated only an hour later. The next day, I called about 20 times and he finally answered and told me we don't get along and we need to break up-that's it. No other explanation, no caring in his voice, nothing. I called so many times the past couple days to see what's going on and I get nothing. If he answers, he screams at me, he says he hates everyone too, but then he is hanging out with them. He said he will never see himself without drinking. It's so confusing because 3 weeks ago, we had the same cycle and we didn't talk for a week. He began to call me over and over and I didn't answer, so he came over crying. He said he know he needs to wuit drinking, but can't. He said he knew it was stupid to be living where he is living and he didn't know why he wouldn't help me with rent and why he treated me so bad-I felt so bad for him. 2 months before that, he actually went to aa for a month and was a totally different person and seemed to be happy. I don't know what to do. He tells me he is so depressed, but he is so nice, fun, and caring to others. Why so angry at me. I know that all of his friends also drink constantly, so I don't know if I remind him if his reality? It's like one week he loves me and our life and the next, we just wants to party and I don't even cross his mind. In fact, he said when we don't talk that he doesn't think about me. He said he never thinks about his daughters and he doesn't know why. If I explain it's probably because he is literally drinking from am to pm, he yells. My dillemma is what do I do? I know I am tired of the on and off. I know I want a family and a normal life. I bought a house and take care of it. I work hard, but I can't get him off my mind. My brother (who is an addict) said I should not give up if I love him because he seems like he is in a spot right now where he may be realizing that he needs to stop drinking and change, but he either may not want to or be ready. Do I stop calling him (he usually never answers) and move on? I have tried working on detachment, but I can't stop thinking that he is out partying and I am at home alone. I have tried to date other guys, but when he comes back, I always go back to him thinking it will be different. He has maintained a normal life with me before and held a job, but that was 3 years ago. Why are his friends more important and why would he hate me? I only want the best for him, some days he see's it, some days he doesn't. Sorry this is long and hopefuly it makes sense. Does anyone has tips for moving on? Is no contact better? I pray, I try to go out and do things with friends, work on my house and whatever, but I can't get him out of my mind. I want to go back to the person I was before him-happy, likes to work out and always out and about but I am so far from that.

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Gingerbread - welcome to MIP, and glad you found us....

What you are describing in your post is very common behavior amongst active A's - that whole roller coaster of "I love you, I hate you, I love you" saga, the whole Jekyll and Hyde thing, etc...

In a nutshell, we learn to stop trying to make sense out of nonsense. My wise old sponsor used to remind me to "stop thinking sick and irrational people are going to behave in healthy and rational ways"....

The answers to your many questions are within you, and the best way you can figure all this stuff out is to choose recovery - for YOU. Al-Anon will help you a ton, and will help you get back to a place where you can see the forest through the trees; separate the lies & promises from the truth; etc., etc....

Nobody here has the right (or enough knowledge) to know what is right or wrong for you, as far as staying/leaving is concerned, but we DO know that you need to take care of you, and get yourself healthy.

Please find yourself a chair at an Al-Anon meeting, and in time, the answers will become clear for you.

Keep coming back

Tom

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Ginger,

I don't know if what I'm going to say is going to make you feel better, it's coming from the stand point of been there done that and now I can look back and say I'm so much better off and so are my kids today. I'm talking about from just 8 months ago.

There is a lot of him him him him in your posts. What about you? I know you say you want to be happy, you can be happy regardless of if the A in your life is drinking, lying, cheating and so on. NOOOO .. not saying you have to stay or go .. you just have to know what you want.

The best place for me that I found those answers has been in the rooms of alanon meetings. I truly encourage you to go find a meeting in your area, get a sponsor and start remembering who you were as well as discover the woman your HP wants you to become.

It really does get better and as long as I stay mired in the dialog of him did this and him did that (I call that singing the "hims" :)) it's hard to get out of my own way and let the A in my life suffer the consequences of his choices. There are many by the way that are all coming in on him as I type.

He is not going to change for you, because of you or anyone else for that matter. You didn't cause the addiction and the behavior associated with it, you will not control his addiction and the behavior associated with it, and you will not cure the addiction and the behavior associated with it.

Keep coming back, this is a great board to find peace and hope it's only one tool among many that are available to you.

Hugs P :)

Gingerbread81 · Member

Thank you for taking the time to listen and the replies. I try hard to focus on me and for some reason, it's like I'm stuck. I may do good for a week and start feeling happy again and social, but then I cannot keep but thinking...why doesn't he love me or want the life he says he wants. I keep trying to make sense of it and the fact the he is so nice to others and appears like he is having fun at the bars, hurts even more. I am doing things for myself, such as I becoming a Big Sister, going on hikes, and working on my house. It's just hard and frustrating when you love someone that has alcoholism. I realize it's like talking to a wall and if he wants to change only he can do that, but when he comes to me crying one day and the next he hates me, I get caught up. I know in my head that this is his addiction, but I guess I have not accepted it like I need to. I also know that I want to be a family and he is probably not the best choice for this (at least at this time). I know it's not right, but I can't stop thinking, maybe I am boring (I used to drink socially and bar tend, but I pretty much stopped drinking and bartending-I just am getting older and don't care for the bar scene). I have been around people with other addictions to hard drugs (such as my brother) and I never thought that it would be similar to alcoholism, but I see it. Addiction is addiction-I guess it seems different because he can be so social and carefree when he's drinking and it's legal, but it causes just as much irrational behaviors, hurt, denial.I wish I could switch an "off" button to my mind, but it's not going to happen. Thanks again.

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

I can definitely relate...

My ex-AW went in progressions..... (and always remember that it IS a progressive disease)

Early on, she drank socially - too much, on occasion, but nothing seemed too askew...

Then she started drinking regularly - going out (with different groups) multiple times per week.... this was the toughest emotional time for me, as we had two young children at home, and it seemed like she was "choosing" alcohol over us.... (*this seems to be the area you find yourself in right now)

Next step, for her, was her drinking was beyond "control", so she knew she couldn't drink in public anymore.... (now to us, as non-addicts, we might simply say "quit", but of course the active A doesn't think like this) - her "solution" to this problem was to drink on her own, behind the closed doors of the house....

For her - she seemed to need to go all through those progressions, before SHE was willing to make the commitment to her sobriety. I'm happy to say that she is more than ten years sober now.... Our marriage didn't survive, but she has her life back, and she is a good Mom, once again, to our kids....

Hope that helps..... bottom line is.... he will get better when he chooses to get better..... (the honest truth is - the same can be said for us)

Take care

Tom

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Gingerbread81 wrote:
Hello all,

I want to go back to the person I was before him-happy, likes to work out and always out and about but I am so far from that.

Dear Gingerbread

I am glad you came back and shared your heart. I can identify with all the pain, confusion and frustration that you are enduring. I too lost myself as a result of living with the insanity of alcoholism and really needed my own program of recovery.

I copied the quote from your posting because I wanted to reply that:" There is HOPE " and you can get that Person Back.

I entered alanon meetings so very lost and confused. It was there that I learned how to break the isolation caused by living with the disease, and was given new tools to live by.

I found people who understood as few others could and who had a program that would help me find my true self. The most important thing I needed to accept is that alcoholism is a disease over which I was powerless. In order for me to get better I had to focus 100% of my attention on myself, my life, my feelings, my spiritual needs. I learned how to do this by attending alanon Face to Face meetings in my community.

Help with finding local meetings near where you live may be found at the following web site:http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.html Or call: 1-888-4alanon

It is important to keep coming back. You are worth it.

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

There is a really good book out there called Getting them Sober, by Toby Rice Drew (Toby Drew Rice?), anyway, great read and it helps. It's not alanon conference approved it's a standby here on the boards.

It really an eye opening experience to wake up from the fog that I have been in for so many years. I have heard this story told by one of my best friends, imagine that the addict has a thick mesh veil over their whole body (that would be the addiction) then look at that picture how can I even expect to talk to them and for them to hear me if they can't even see me through that veil that is addiction.

The only power I have in this situation is over how I choose to respond. Before coming to the rooms of alanon I never even realized I had a choice. I always thought I was going to control him, his addiction and how he related to others and boy did that blow up in my face in a very humbling way.

Congrats on recognizing you are powerless over other people, places and things. It's step 1 and it's a step I have to go to on a daily basis.

Keep coming back, Hugs P :)

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

I am glad you returned! And a great book recommendation for sure from Pushka and yes I have been there. This disease is crazy making at it's finest and well only Al-anon face to face meetings, MIP and my sponsor could help me to get the tools to step off the crazy train and I continue my program to stay off. I am hoping you can find some local meetings nad read all the Al-anon literature you can get your hands on. Sending you love and support on your journey!

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Gingerbread and welcome also from the pacific. "The disease is crazy making" is a part of the true definition of alcoholism and drinking. Wanting a person who cannot fulfill his own healthy needs to fill your healthy needs is crazy making. Another truth about this disease is that while the alcoholic is addicted to alcohol we are addicted to the alcoholic. Others in our families and our children will often have the same responses to our behaviors as we have to the alcoholics behaviors. Why does she do that??!! You are addicted to a mind and mood altering person who is addicted to a mind and mood altering chemical...that is our reality and our program. My/Our program doesn't work for sanity and serenity I learned and it had to be changed; another program had to be substituted and for me that program was the Al-Anon Family Groups which is what I live today. Being broken and confused is a temporary condition. When you make the decision to change it and start to do the work it mostly ends and you get sanity and serenity back the Aaaahhh Life is Good attitude and perception.

You've come to the right place. The fellowship here understands because we have been there and done that also and now have found a different way of choosing how to live our own lives in spite of the choices our alcoholic friends and relatives make.

Keep coming back...In support. ((((hugs)))) smile

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Ginger - I can definitely relate. The answers to your problems lie in the program. The answers have nothing to do with him either and they have everything to do with you.

I spent lots and lots of time obsessing over my ex-A's motivations, feelngs, and trying to make sense of what he was thinking, feeling, and doing. I wanted to have some sort of control over him and wanted so badly to make him into a stable support for me. He was NEVER going to be that stable support. Only after a lot of program work, I realized that the stable support I was literally craving like crack was available to me from my HP and from myself. I could never put that plan of self-care and trusting God into action before the program.

Slowly, with lots of meetings, sponsorship, stepwork....the emptiness that I felt when by myself dissipated. I didn't have to look to an unhealthy, broken person to fill up the parts of me that were also unhealthy and broken. I wasted many years in a relationship not too different than the one you are describing. I am not telling you to leave, but I am suggesting to turn the focus on your own healing. It's much easier to realize how crazy and self-sabotaging the alcoholic is, but like I said above: You are chasing after a broken and sick person wanting them to make you feel better about parts of you that are also sick and broken. That is just as futile as his drinking is as a coping skill for him. It sounds like you are at a "bottom" that very closely resembles an alcoholic bottom.

A full fledged surrender to alanon and then working this program for all it's worth will do miracles...I can promise you that. You are not alone and it will get better if you keep working the program and reaching out.

Gingerbread81 · Member

I do see how control is an issue for both us and the addict. This past weekend until yesterday was so hard for me. But for some reason last night, after talking with friends, family, and on here, I just realized that this is his problem. I didn't wonder why he was doing

what he was doing, I just accepted it as is. I thought about all the times he was not there for me and that he would end a 6 year relationship with a friend telling me never to call me again and that actually made me angry. Addict or not..the truth is, he was never there

for me and it was rare that he actually thought about my feelings. I am not 100% sure, but I do expect him to call and say sorry (put on the whole "I'm miserable" act) at some point. This has happened for 6 years....then he says how bad drinking is and so on....but

never changes. I really don't see myself going through this cycle for even another year and I hate to say it, but I don't see him changing. I really feel he enjoys being a "party" type with no responsiblities and I was trying to change him the entire time. I feel that the

way he broke up with me actually made me realize that I don't ever want another person to treat me like that. The hardest part for me to accept is that he treats his "friends" literally so much better than me and his children, but claims to love us. I kind of feel like he

has all these people around him that don't really know his dark secrets, so he makes himself feel better. If they were his true friends, they would be helping him work on his relationship with his daughters and so on. But that is up for him to figure out. Thanks again

everyone!

orchidlover · ~*Service Worker*~

I recently came to the realization trust is a huge issue in a relationship. Trust around an alcoholic isn't possible. So i would go back and forth around trust. I would resent that I could not trust him want to believe that he could be trusted, be cajoled into trusting him and then know that I could not. I defintiely could not take it seriously that I could not trust him.

I used to believe everyone was more important to the ex A than me. In fact he was treating his friends, family, whoever pretty much as he treated me. He had impossible expectations of all of them. Naturally the ex A knew exactly how to hit my buttons. I had a big one on abandonment. I also had a total obsession with what he was doing, where he was and what I was missing out on. Nowadays of course I don't think I was missing anything but for some reason in my skewed thinking I was always obsessed with that he wasn't doing what I wanted him to do.

Now I can dial up and dial down in a relationship. If things are going crazy and I find myself resenting someone I dial back the relationship my expectations have to change. I have to work on how I feel rather than what they should feel.

Expectations are everything around an alcoholic. If I expect an alcoholic to be present, emotionally engaged and accessible to me I am not being realistic. I really resented being realistic before. After all couldn't I shape my reality.

I would really recommend the book Getting them Sober. Most of all I would recommend getting into the program. Try meetings, try going to the meetings here. Try following threads and giving your esh. Try looking to people in recovery for support, care and understanding. Don't compare yourself to other people, identify with them.

Being around an alcoholic is a really difficult task, having new tools and expectations is a really good way to start not feeling so drained and exhausted.

Maresie.

Gingerbread81 · Member

I plan on reading that book soon, orchid. Trust is one of the most important foundations of a relationship and it is true, with addicts/alcoholics, there really is no trust and no matter how hard you try to gain that, until they get sober, you can't. My XAB also had very

little respect for me overall and basically treated me as a convenience (not seeing all the effort and the things I did for him, such as raise his daughter). I really don't think it even crossed his mind that I am doing so much to help and I don't feel he was ever grateful for

much. It's hard for me to believe that a person would take so much and not give back in return. About expectations, I think in a healthy relationship, one should have expectations, but I understand that with As, our expectations really only hurt us- I had to learn that

the hard way over and over again! I still cannot help but feel that he did treat others better than me, but it's all about an image. He wants to be seen as fun, cool, funny, and so on. He even speaks to others about his kids to make him appear to be a good dad, but in

reality, he has never paid child support ever and he barely spends time with his kids when they are here-he drops them off to be with his friends. I have to look at this and realize...of course he wants others to think he is awesome. This not only makes him feel better

about being a deadbeat, this also keeps his addiction going strong, because as long as he has friends that love being around him, he doesn't think what he is doing is wrong. It took me a while, but I see how sick As truly are and it's like they create this world for

themselves and they are trapped. I cannot help but feel sorry for them deep down (after the sadness or anger leaves) because having to put up such an act most of your life must be rough. I wondered why he always rejected me, but I was his voice of reason and I

tried to offer solutions to his problems, instead of helping him escape (which is exactly what he is doing).
:

orchidlover · ~*Service Worker*~

I absolutely felt that the ex A had only time for his friends and at some times his family. The nature of alcoholism is a great snow job. They make it look like they are having a good time but to be an alcoholic is to be desperate and lonely. I am not making any excuses for them at all but I have learned with time and detachment that their life isn't a bed of roses. The reason they can't acknowledge our generosity is that if they did that they would have to admit they were dependent and they have to live in a sea of denial. Unfortunately we cannot force them into sobriety. I do know when I started living my own life I stopped resenting the ex A that didn't mean I didn't slip up all the time I did. The issue was I was willing to listen to someone that what I was doing wasn't working and willing to try something else. I have heard much in al anon that I didn't agree with, the issue of being grateful (for what). My life these days is built on gratitude. Of course I am not grateful to the now ex A for putting me through hell and back. At the same time t took a tremendous shift in my attitude to be willing to get to al anon and I really believe al anon has shaped me in a different way.

I do think that Getting them Sober is a great resource as are most books on codependency. I really recommend the book People Pleasing too. I know I was an absolute committed, insane people pleaser. Behind my people pleasing was a sea of rage and resentment that was incredibly toxic. If you asked me about my rage I would assure you that I was generous. My generosity however always had a string on it they were supposed to take care of me for it.

I do know well the issue of craving a healthy relationship. I think now that a healthy relationship is not part of a craving for someone who can fix me. That was the nature of my relationships, fix me, make me whole, make me well and I will do whatever is necessary. I think now that a good relationship is not intense, doesn't require constant monitoring and isn't hurtful. My relationship with the ex A was 100% hurtful. There were a few weeks when he hid the alcoholism from me but even then there were many many red flags. I chose not to see the flags but I certainly had to acknowledge them.

I hope you will give a chance to dialling up and dialling down in your relationship. When you are suffused in rage, dial down, take a step back, be good to yourself, give yourself a rest from raging and anger for a short time. Rage and obsession are a really hard task master and really difficult to be in all the time.

maresie.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"