Congratulations in posting on this web site.

Re the 'emotional silence' you speak of.......

By tapping the 'Search' above and entering in various words around this behaviour you will find the posts from others, trying to deal with this type of situation will come up.

There are also a number of books available. Tap in that word here and 'Google' to search for, which can assist you to understand this hurtfulness in a relationship.

These days this technique of withdrawal, or silence as you explain, is recognised as Domestic Violence/Abuse....as it is seen as 'power' over the other.   I'm not meaning a withdrawal of a day when someone is taking 'time 'out' or space.

This can happen in a relationship effected by alcohol or not.  Even if a person is sober, or has been for 20 or 30 years they can still use this 'mood'.   It is very hurtful and harming.  Sometimes, as you say, it is just too hard.

If you stay or not with your partner it is a positive move you are making to search for your own information and growth.

Every good wish  T.H.

I didn't criticize, i just told him that his behavior hurt me. (See my reply to the next message.)

I hear you that two years isn't that long in recovery. I didn't expect him to be perfect. I was quite willing to be with him where he was if he would only let me in and hear me when I told him how his withdrawing was harming me. (He would do it in a cold and angry way... not in an "I need some space, sweetie" kind of way.)

I would rather him be sober and where he is... yes. At least he is alive. Maybe I wanted him to be further along than he is. Problem is, he thinks he's got it all figured out and his way of working the third step is the ONLY way. I will say, He's gonna be a wonderful and strong and vibrant man when he has more recovery. I pray that his sponsor is good for him.

Aloha Lynna and welcome to the board.  You didn't say how much you knew about alcoholism and how it affect peoples' lives and you didn't say what your experience with 12 step recovery is.  People in 12 step recovery...AA, Al-Anon, Coda, Adult Children and the others have changed lives...changed ways of thinking and feeling and changed ways of behaving and responding to life even when that life now includes persons from other behavioral types.  We behave differently and communicated differently and often that will drive a non-program personinto confusion, dispair, anxiety, anger and the other reactive responses. 

You judge some of his responses as withdrawn and you might just be witnessing the behavior of detachment after he assesses your mutual situation and decides he is powerless over it and the fear, anger, confusion and more remind him of the unmanagability which results from trying to "fix" another persons reactions and perceptions of what is going on "for them".  I often...in fact very often will not engage with my wife in her choices of how she sees, feels and reacts or responds to situations which out outside of myself and for which I have no actual influence.  Sometimes she vents around me and sometimes she needs to lay frustration, anxiety, fear, confusion or just a personal dysfunction at me.  You will hear, if you continue to come to MIP, the membership mention at one time or another that "we don't have to attend every fight, war, dance or metaphorical event...we are invited to".  We don't even have to acknowledge it.  

The person who would be helpful to you we call a sponsor...someone from the program who is working the program and has empathetic concern for us and can listen to our vents without becoming involved and has Experiencial, Strong, and Hopeful feedback.  Your recovering partner is responding to your from inside of his program.  In order to understand more I would suggest you attend open, face to face Al-Anon Family Group get togethers and listen, listen, listen.  Al-Anons' twelve steps and traditions and more very very closely parallel the AA program...in fact that is where they come from.  It would do great things toward bringing you and your alcoholic partner onto the same page.   As far as I know all locations have Disabled Access and others who will actively help you get aclimated.   Mutual programs from my experience is the best conflict avoider.  Don't know of anyone who likes conflict except a masochist.  Conflict is avoidable.

Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))

Hi Jerry,

I so very much appreciate your thought-provoking response. I led Celebrate Recovery (Christ-centered 12 step program based on AA) at my church for several years. I was so surprised when I started learning about the 12-steps to see that that was the spiritual journey God had been taking me on for the past several years. I am a firm believer that the steps are relevant to everybody, not just alcholics, and others who are affected by alcohol in family systems. So, yeh, I have a little familiarity. I do agree with you that I would have much to gain by going to Al-Anon, and will make that a priority.

Here is the thing... I have ENORMOUS respect and compassion for anybody who is working the program and is getting their life back. I was his biggest admirer. To see what God has done in his life has been so incredibly uplifting. That is when he is being the good Tom (name changed). He can switch on a dime and become very withdrawn, moody, and vindictive if I mention that I am hurt by that behavior. Would it be too much to expect a healthy response of "I'm dealing with some things. Don't mean to hurt you. Please be patient."  Instead he gets angry and tells me that I shouldn't be bringing my hurts to him, I should be offering them to God.

I am a pretty strong person and let a ton of things slide. The latest, when he didn't include me in his decision about taking the job... when we had been talking about him moving in with me...was not a small thing. I don't think it is too much to expect somebody two years into recovery to include somebody they love in a major decision like that. When I told him it hurt, and his only response was "let it go", was the last straw. Maybe he isn't far enough along in recovery to deal with real conflict in a healthy manner.

One last thing. I agree with you that SOME conflict is avoidable, and should be. Let Go and Let God and let alot slide. Heck yeh. But in a healthy relationship, two people have to be able to express their feelings and be heard by their partner in a respectful manner.

Thanks again for responding and for pointinhg me to Al-Anon.

lynna50,

I admire your strength and resolve in knowing your truth and your worth.  Recovery is hard, yes.  Patience and understanding are important.  I'm a firm believer that if you see something within a relationship that is not sitting well for your own peace of mind and serenity....then you are right to walk away.  It's not easy, as being in a relationship with an alcoholic (recovering or not) tends to make the partner want to be 'extra' patient to the point that we can easily lose ourselves within the sickness no matter how well versed we are in recovery. It's a constant effort to remind ourselves what we're dealing with. 

I find it refreshing that you love yourself enough to insist on a healthy dynamic in a relationship.

It's not selfish.  It's self care.

Icie and Diamond,

I am so appreciative of  your words of encouragement. This is one of the most painful and lonely things I have experienced. (and I'm no stranger to emotional pain!)  I question my decision sometimes... maybe I expect too much. Maybe this is the best a woman in a wheelchair can aspire to. Maybe I'm gonna be a lonely old spinster lady.

But "truth" prevails and that is: I am worth more than this. I am healthier than this. I want better for me than this... even if that means striding forward alone and living an abundant life.

I guess the pain of staying, and little hope that the unhealthy relational dynamics would resolve, gave me the courage to face this much more painful decision. More painful in the short-term. I will get over the pain and move forward.

I am studying to be a counselor. Last week I interviewed a client who was 60 days sober, just completing rehab. He told me how he has learned through recovery how to listen to his wife and how to be a better husband. It can happen. Addicts can learn new ways of being. My (ex) guy will do so, too, in time, probably, if he wants to.

Thanks for listening. It helps to tell my story. I am emotionally raw.

Great thread and I'm not surprised at your announcement toward being a counselor.  There are so many of us fixers in the industry and that means we attempt to do professionally what we do personally.  My sponsor gave me a caveat when I got into the field of alcohol and substance abuse counseling and it became my lantern.  "Remember you cannot sell a 12th step".  He was telling me that there was a difference between my own personal journey and getting paid for being a professional.  There are many things that are different which should not be mixed up.  If you have the assets...mind, body, spirit and emotions and you know that the direction is between God and yourself and not yourself and the sick alcoholic and or addict the journey becomes sweet.  Using the God given assets you find inside of yourself from your inventories, for me is very important.  Knowing where God starts and you begin and end is important.  Learning to continue to be teachable...or as my sponsor called it "humble" is important.   Using your education, skills, desires, experiences and unconditional love for yourself and others is important.  For me there could never be a client I was better than or a situation so bad that it could not be redirected within the experiences and lessons of recovery.  I chose to be a behaviorist and not a psycologist or psychiatrist or mental health worker and that is where I work within.  I didn't do much with what was thought and rather what was being done or not done.  I learned early on from some masters who taught me that alcoholics and addicts don't drink and use the way they do because they have problems and have problems because they drink and use the way they do.   Others have their thoughts, beliefs, and practices and I have absolutely no friction with it...Choose from within the true you and then do the work. 

You ask if it isn't too much to expect...and the answer is under your present conditions...yes, apprarently it is so what is easiest to do change him or them or just you; a bit.  I used the slogan "Don't React" to support my killing my expectations...that worked for me.  Adjusting my expectations to fit the situation also worked and I got off of my alcoholic/addict wife's back and started applying compassion, empathy and mercy in my life for her and others (including myself...it feels great).  I started applying open minded listening with others including the alcoholic/addicts in my life and started considering their exclamations to me as "perhaps they are right" and then I'd investigate.  I was amazed to learn that often they are whole human beings, children of God, smart and compassionate and loving and very very sick...at times.  I realized that at times I didn't have all the information or all of the experiences and needed to be the student rather than the teacher.  Often times it is better for me to take the position of "letting it go" and "going out to play" rather than seeing the situation as a dire life threatening event.  It rarely is expecially if I use patience and humility.   I learned to take the attitude of "Teach me" with my alcoholic/addicts and others because I wasn't so very clear with their picture and they were willing to teach me....open up to me about what they felt and saw and experienced.   I learned to have my body language match my verbal language and mental attitude match my spiritual motivation.  I learned that in college and my professor gave it a word a just loved and still think of and use..."Its called being congruent, Jerry F"...what goes on in your head goes down to your feet and you then are "vertically aligned"  Isn't that sooo powerful?!!  My sponsor also use to work the character of "vertical alignment" with me taking it from the ground I stood on to the creator above me.

I avoid conflict because I know how to do the opposite of fear, which for me is love.  When you love the others unconditionally there will be no conflict.  Our most natural state of being is giving and receiving love.   Okay I'm sounding preachy and I'm not and maybe I'm giving away a lot of stuff I was raised on in the program of the Al-Anon Family Groups and Alcoholics Anonymous.  I am familiar with both sides of the fence.  One very simple thing I've learned on my recovery journey and my professional experiences; most often the experiences between two people are qualified by 1. Gender and 2. Age.

In support (((((hugs)))))