The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
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level.
I dont think there is anything we can do for your Mother. Could it be your Mother was always self indulgent and you never noticed it because she was drunk all the time. This could be who she is.
Sounds like my Mother and she didnt drink, she is now 86 and has dementia and is very selfish and is all the things you describe about your Mom. Could it also be her brain was affected by all the years of drinking, only a Dr. could tell you that after an evaluation.
My concern is you and how the many years of drinking has caused you pain. You know I recently read a book about self indulgent Mothers and the affect that has on us their children. Since they are hard to please, we keep going and have a hard time drawing boundaries. I found that to be true.
Its time for your healing and along with healing comes boundaries and detachment and compassion for yourself . It cant be about your Mom all the time or your life will become unbalanced. The goal here is your serenity and accepting the things you cannot change.
Have you ever attended an Alanon meeting? I think it would uplift your spirits and you will discover coping tools to deal with your Mother. There are meetings in every community.
You can keep posting here also, I hope you do.
Keep coming back, hugs, Bettina
-- Edited by Bettina on Wednesday 29th of August 2012 06:08:42 PM
We all seem to have the same mothers, the competition, the jealousy. To this day its uncomfortable for me and my brothers to talk about our Dad who passed away in front of our Mother. She didnt want us to have a relationship with him, because she was miserable with him and loved another man.
My 2nd marriage was like a dream, he opened a business and he became a millionaire, I had the life and home my Mom dreamed of , she was so jealous. That marriage produced a son, who was born with a heart defect. He died at 2 years old. He had two mental breakdowns from losing his son and turned to cocaine. So my Mother never missed an opportunity to bring it up and torture me with it.
Then when I married the alcoholic, my 3rd marriage, we both had great jobs, traveled , bought a nice home. We both loved to dance, we had a lot of fun and then his disease turned to the worse. Another thing to throw in my face.
There is a connection from the type of Moms we had to why we stayed so long at the fair and accept bad behavior, its connected to our boundaries that were never formed when we were young and growing up.
Inspired, I will try and get you the name of that book. A friend loaned the book to me and she has since moved back to her country. I will ask her. It had self indulgent Mothers in the title, something like that.
Bettina
-- Edited by Bettina on Wednesday 29th of August 2012 08:35:20 PM
-- Edited by Bettina on Wednesday 29th of August 2012 08:41:10 PM
I just identify with dealing with someone who thought she was normal. My primary caretaker was sick and she had an addiction. She tried to hide it from me and could not. She did not believe she had any problems.
I could not reach her.
I had to let her go. Walk away from her. When I was dealing with her, I had to tell myself over and over and over again, "Allie, she is sick. You are getting well."
She is gone now. Her disease killed her, I think.
Now all I have is me. I have to deal with that now.
It's not about the alkie, it's about how well I can and will take care of me now.
Allie
-- Edited by AllieinAlanon on Wednesday 29th of August 2012 08:50:57 PM
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Alanon is about self-care, not caring for the alcoholic.
I am the 23 year old daughter of an alcoholic addict.
I had what I would describe as an extremely healthy, happy childhood,I would go so far as to say a typical middle class American experience, as long as my father was in town. Whenever he would spend a weekend away, my mother got drunk, and stayed drunk until he returned.I can vividly remember her explaining to my sister and I that she had a disease when I was ten, she went to one AA meeting, and limited her consumption to beer (which admittedly was very positive, as drinking heavy liquor made her more violent). Over the years, her drinking humiliated my sister and I on multiple occasions- but we came to expect it. She had stashes of beer throughout the house and water bottles full of vodka and we just knew, if Mom was drinking avoid her- don't bother fighting or really talking to her because it wasn't her. When I was 19, after my sister moved away to college and my grandfather passed away, my mother changed. She morphed from a binge alcoholic to a full blown waste of time and space drunk. She would sit around and drink all day and night without hesitation, its a mystery as to how she kept her job during this time. Suddenly, she decided it was necessary to exercise constantly, color her hair, get fake nails, implants, and visit the tanning beds daily. Mid-life crisis? It got very bad, it's hard to express the severity of the situation wihtout going into detail but we watched helplessly as she hit many hard walls hoping each was rock bottom so she would be able to start climbing back up the latter instead of falling deeper into the well. We supported her as she attended two different rehab facilities in which we underwent family therapy, to no avail, and was eventually arrested for domestic abuse against my father. This time presented a whirlwind of pain and confusion throughout my entire family. Especially to those outside the home who were unaware of her ongoing binging habit. I'm from a small town, and she had easily convinced us that it was a secret we must always protect, from everyone.
Now, she has 13 months of sobriety, yet nothing has really changed. Shes still the same shallow, selfish, arrogant shell of the person she was before she fell off the deep end. She goes to the AA meetings every night, has a sponsor, and is even sponsoring another girl. She doesnt work the steps, or do service work, she just goes to the meetings. In rehab, she was challenged to wear all of her clothes inside out, and not wear makeup or style her hair because shes an actress- and in her sobriety, shes still acting. She looks perfect, but theres just nothing else there- no one can stand to have a conversation with her because all she wants to talk about is herself, its as if shes a teenage girl going through puberty all over again. Ive done some research, and Im afraid she has a form of alcoholic psychosis or dementia; shes not the same person, or really any person. My question is, has anyone else had this type of experience, and if so what is the proper way to approach her about getting psychiatric help? I used to have a relationship with my mother (as long as my dad was in town!), and I want that back. I just dont know how to reach through this fake Barbie doll to get to who she used to be.
Even if there's nothing wrong with her mentally, how am I supposed to have any semblance of a relationship with this woman who raised me to be nothing like who she is now? I don't know how to talk to someone I love but have absolutely no respect for. She's cause so much pain.
Bettina, what is that book you were referring too. I really want to get ahold of it. Self Indulgent Mothers and the affects it has on their children. Please let me know. Cal, welcome to the site. My mother was and is very selfish. She said her depression caused her to be that way, even after a year of me not speaking to her I thought maybe just maybe (since she had gone to get help, attended meetings, counselling) this time would be different. We would finally have that relationship that we "should" have. Her as the adult and me as the daughter (adult daughter). Nope, my relationship with my mother is nothing short of her being the child and me being the adult. When I was a child, I had to be the husband after my father left. I never had any peace, or any life. My life was my mother. I had to take care of her, her rages, her selfishes, her wants, the lies, everything. I thought if I could be everything, she wanted me to be ..finally she would just accept me and I would be at peace. Nope. I am in my 30s and needless to say nothing has changed. She still threatens me, she still crosses my boundaries, she still displays rage when things aren't her way or how she wants me to see things. When I bring up situations in our past that I had hoped to resolution she makes excuses for the abuse and blames me. I had hoped once we had some distance (me moving right out my hometown) she would finally develop a life and leave mine alone. Old habits die hard. As soon as I let her back in, she came in like a flood.
I think you would really benefit from Al Anon, on so many levels. I started to get so sick from my mom's affect she had on me. Not only that she was affecting my children as well. I have found with my mom, it is sad that we cannot maintain a relationship. I wish we could. But for both of us to maintain a healthy, balanced, levelled relationship (we both have to work on our own issues). That can't happen if it is one sided. So until she is ready to fully and completely commit. I cannot myself, have to remove myself from her. Not saying this is sometihng you need or should do. This is just where I had to draw the line.
I do hope that maybe one day, we can come together. Only time will tell. Welcome to the fourm and hugs to you.
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"It's impossible said pride. Its risky said experience. Its pointless said reason. Give it a try whispered the heart - Anonymous (via Tad)
I thank you both for taking the time to respond. It's good to know that this might be normal, as unfortunate as that is. I think you are right in that I cannot have a relationship with her until or unless she pulls through this. As hard as that is going to be at times, I think that will be healthier for me. You truly described our backwards relationship- now in her sobriety I've provided her as an example of what's hip and fun, and that's not okay. The more I reflect on it, the more I realize she was very competitive with me as I was growing up.
I've been to Al-Anon, but it wasn't a very positive experience. It was women much older than me talking about how their husbands drinking had effected them; surely I can sympathize since all substance abusers are comparable to some degree, but I didn't find it overly beneficial. I considered trying Ala-Teen, but I'm not a teenager so I'm not sure how that would be. I guess there's no harm in trying. I think for now I will just remain thankful that I have such good relationships with the other members of my family. I like this site a lot, I'm sure I will check in frequently.
There are meetings for ACOA's Adult Children of Alocoholics, this could be more beneficial for you, although I attend regular meetings many people have needed more specific ones. My mom and I rarely talk and I stay very dettached for my own serenity. It is okay to distance yourself from anyone that gives you red flags. Have you read "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews, it was helpful for me. I can relate and understand being raced in shame and all the dysfunctional baggage A's bring to the table. Al-anon meetings, books and working the steps with my sponsor helped me have a better life and to face myself and get through so much of it. I am sending you love and support!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
Cal. I am not in a position where I can get to F2F meetings. If this place is your only place for a while...then let that be satisfying. Don't be afraid to reach out, go to the online meetings. They help a great deal. I keep coming back twice a day for these meetings. Develope your own plan, your own program, and stick to it. You will experience many emotions, excitement, fear, exaustion (trust me that has been mine for a few days as I feel purged!). But I encourage you to reach out, whatever is on your mind, however you feel, don't be afraid of judgement. You just may find yourself writing what someone else has gone through.
As far as competition. My mom is still extremely competitive against me. The house, the car, the kids, the clothes, the money, on and on. She is so JEALOUS of my life. Wow. She should be happy! Nope. She is miserable. My parenst have been divorced since I was 4. She is extremely bitter, just because my Dad walked out (long story)..she is angry at me because she feels betrayed. She feels abandoned. I am NOT allowed to have a relationship with my father. At all. So all those years growing up, I was pulled and torn. The father I adored, to the mother that absoluately hated me for loving him. I have never heard either one of them say one posiitve thing about each other since the break up. I don't even know why they get married to begin with. So.....here I am. I can't fight my existence, I can only tell both of them (you obviousily loved each other at one point because here I am)...I have always believe adults should put their own selfish feelings aside for the sake of the children. They would or could not.
You have spent the first half of your life trying to make up for all the mistakes she has caused...don't spent the rest of your life trying to figure how how you prevent her from doing anymore. You can't. Heal yourself hun. It's time :) HUGS
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"It's impossible said pride. Its risky said experience. Its pointless said reason. Give it a try whispered the heart - Anonymous (via Tad)
When I was in rehab, it was common practice for the counselors to identify the obsessions of the inmates...some that were overly obsessed with appearance were required to dress down in a effort to show them that people could/would still accept them as good persons even tho they were not dressed to kill. One's self worth should not be based on appearance. One girl was a marithon runner and they forbid her to run the track for two wks - that was worst than taking away the A's alcohol!!
I second the recommendation of going to ACOA meetings - I don't have an A husband but I am the child of one and the mother of one. Jokers to the left of me and clowns to the right -- I'm stuck in the middle with me.
Hi - I attached a link to an older post, citing some great ACOA books that you might want to read..... In addition, I know 'Claudia Black' has written several books, and they are extremely well thought of as well....
As for meetings - if you live in an area of decent size, there should definitely be some ACOA meetings, that you might find more applicable to your needs.... Failing that, I'd encourage you to try Al-Anon again.... I tell the story on here often, but the first time I went to Al-Anon, I swore I would never go back, cuz it was "a bunch of old ladies complaining about their alcoholic husbands"..... So I left, and my life got "even more" unmanageable, and I went back - almost begging for help wherever I could find it.... Well, the second time around, what I found was a bunch of wonderful, loving people, who welcomed me with open arms, with various levels of recovery under their belts - they had experience, strength, and hope - and also tons of empathy...... Interesting thing is - it was the exact same group of people!! (boy had they learned a lot in 18 months, lol).
My reality was... the 1st time there, I really wasn't ready....
The second time around, I was more than ready to be there, and it was amazing....
I echo the others - this board, other online stuff, great books, counselling, etc can all be a great supplement - but NOTHING truly replaces the power of F2F meetings
It sounds like you are describing histrionic personality disorder. Often times folks come into AA or NA with seriously overblown egos and personality disorders. AA chips away at them slowly (sometimes quicker depending on how much pain the person is in and how hard they are willing to work). It takes more than 13 months to change and she might be getting some reward from acting as a pathological attention grabber. It's not psychosis but it is a real disorder and not uncommon either. Folks with personality disorders also believe that "the problem" is with everyone else and not them - There is hope that she might tone down and get honest in AA...but maybe not.
Mostly likely, she doesn't know who the heck she is at this point after having sunk so low. Her journey is going to be rocky and difficult even though she's supposedly sober now. I guess in terms of your alanon program, you can only detach, pray, and rely on your HP. Her not drinking is still a good thing even if her personality remains nutty. Her HP has some sort of plan for her... I guess take a deep breath and just try and focus on what your HP has in store for you (hopefully a great life, kids, family, career...all the best).