How to start believing spouse again? - Al-Anon Family Group

Donna Lee · Member

How to start believing spouse again?

orchidlover · ~*Service Worker*~

What an incredibly difficult situation to be in. I think around an alcoholic its pretty good to have an open mind. For me personally it was important for the alcoholism to not be the center of my existence. Moving towards that took quite a while. I would highly recommend going to an alanon meeting, getting a sponsor and working on yourself. Whether the alcoholic drinks or not is not something you can control. For so many alcoholics there is an insistence that those people around them be on board with whatever they are doing 100% so the alcoholic is the center of everyone's existence. For me I had to move the alcoholic out of being the center of my life to being part of my life and then eventually I got to a place where he wasn't in my life. I would never have been able to do any of those things without the guidance and help of those people in Al anon.

Maresie.

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Donna Lee,

30 years is a long time to invest in a marriage. I was married 26 years to the XA and together longer. Can you do this another 20 years??? The chaos, the insanity of it, because it is a insane disease. If you have any hope of saving your sanity and or maybe the marriage, it is imperative that you attend a face to face Alanon meeting. It really is all up to you isnt it.? As long as he is drinking there will be no change.

There is hope for you though, a better way to live, a more sane existence even in the midst of his drinking. Has your daughter ever thought of going to Alanon??? I think you both would benefit by it. There is much to learn about this disease and how it affects us spouses, family and friends. Someone has to put down their weapons and stop treating the alcoholic like he is the enemy. He has a real disease. When his is drinking, he's not your spouse or your daughters father at that moment, he is a sick man with an addiction.

Since your husband cannot begin to repair himself yet, Why dont you start the process by really going to an Alanon meeting and starting the path of serenity and sanity. We have all walked in your shoes, we understand your frustration and hopelessness.

Please keep coming back , were always here to help.

Hugs, Bettina

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Of course there's hope for you. You only described problems your husband has. You don't have to own all of his problems and his problems as they deal with relating to your daughter. Yes, it affect the family, but it's his alcoholism and his relationship with your daughter....It helps to focus on what is directly tied to you and what you have power over. You don't have power over his drinking or his relationship with your daughter. Trying to control those things will drive you nuts.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Every one shared some great truths.

He does what he does becuz he is a sick addict. Of course he drinks and lies, he is an A. We do not have any business policing what they do. Whether they use or not is their own life. None of our business. We cannot control it anyway.

If we choose to live with someone, then we accept them as is. We have no right to demand them to be anything else. They have their own integrity.

we can learn thru Al Anon the best way to stay with them if we choose. We learn to change us, change how we look at things, how we react to things.

We work on us. Its not fair to anyone to have someone else questioning what they do. How would you like it if you were overweight and he was policing what you ate all the time. You might have heart problems, hi bp whatever that he has to take you to the doc etc. But he would have NO right to try to control you. If you choose to work on being healthier that is up to you. He has the choice to live with you as is or not.

I know it is a hard concept but it is true. His illness is his own. Only he can decide how to handle it. His body is saturated in alcohol. If he is indeed sober, that is only ONE symptom of being an A!

Even if he just stopped drinking and white knuckled trying not to, he is still very very sick.

they crave it worse than we do water.

book, volume one, Getting Them Sober, toby rice drew.

I hope you keep coming. I loved my A way over fourty years. I do relate in some ways. Ala Teen for kiddos is good.

YOu will feel better if you can go to meetings, come here, read reseach. He is an A he is going to use. He may go into a strong recovery, he may use again. its only how the disease workse!We accept them as is with a terribly incurable disease, learn to be comfortable with it. or we stay as is or leave.

Al Anon an teach you sooo much! When i realized how very sick mine was, I did not care if he drank or not> I was going to cont. loving him and doing the best I could to accept him as is, as he did for me. It was soooo nice. He could smell like beer and it did not bother me at all. All I cared about was he was sitting there holding my hand!

hugs, please come back. We need to help you and dear daughter to bring serenity into your home. hugs to you A too. debilyn

Donna Lee · Member

The main issue is my 20 year old daughter. She is constantly on my back to "open my eyes". She feels that his alcoholism has ruined her life and I was blind to it for years. I've admitted that it took me a long time to use the word Alcoholic. I was most likely in denial when I look back. She blames me for letting it continue. Don't say she should get help. I have tried to take her to Al-Anon (the adult group I belonged to), but she does not find comfort in other people discussing their problems and not offering solutions. She is after my husband and won't back down. The guilt I feel is overwhelming. She feels I enable him. At one point, I did---trying to wean him off the booze only to find that he would beg me for a little to stop the shakes and then finding he had a stash elsewhere in the house. His creativity was almost laughable--airline bottles, sample bottles and hiding then in a gutted out old computer, under pool chemicals outside and, when he got really creative, hid them in the back of my bedroom closet (hiding in plain sight). All these hiding places, my daughter found. I can't talk to my daughter...it just erupts in arguments. I feel I have lost both of them and am alone.

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

What does your daughter want you to do? Does your daughter live with you? She needs counseling & Alanon. Alanon does offer solutions, but they have to be your solutions. She is raging just like the alcoholic, this is an effect of the disease.

Right now you will have to detach from the A and your daughter. If you keep attending Alanon, eventually she will follow....she will see the changes. Don't let anyone distract you from your path of serenity. Let go and let your HP guide you.

Luv, Bettina

Donna Lee · Member

Essentially, my daughter lives at home, attends college, works part-time and has a boyfriend where she sleeps most of the time at his parents home. She wants me to divorce her father. I think she his caught between helping to protect me and letting me drown (as she calls it). She hates how the house has deteriorated due to my husband and me. You can imagine the depression that has enveloped me. Because of bashed in doors and holes around the house, I have given up cleaning, making meals and fixing things that my husband is incapable of handling because of his alcoholism. Again, he is going into court ordered rehab on Monday for 28 days. I now need to ask my daughter's boyfriend to help cut the lawn, keep the pool going and perhaps do some needed repairs. I plan to dump some things in the house because the clutter is overwhelming adding to my depression living in a messy, broken house. If this rehab does not work, I may have to take drastic steps and get divorced---hard to do when I don't have the funds to get divorced. I have seen two lawyers. Both want $5,000.00 to start. My husband says he will fight me if I go for a divorce.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

If you are that miserable something has to change from you. I wouldn't plan on rehab magically taking away this problem. Rehab won't get him to stop drinking if he really is not ready. He will need to go to a program of recovery (such as AA) daily after getting out. Some alcoholics think rehab will cure them. It's only to get stable to the point that you can work a dailly program of AA once you get out.

Alanon will continue to be of aid to you. When you are ready to let go...if that is in your HP's plan, you will do it and you will have the support of others. Alanon is not all about sharing problems and no solution. There is solution. It's just getting spiritually centered and having enough clarity from the program to get to the point of inherently knowing what solutions are best for you.

Doozy · Senior Member

Hi Donna Lee,

It sounds like such a very difficult time for you and your family! It's so good that you are reaching out and I hope that you will start to feel things turn around for you. It sounds like you might go already, but if not I bet you would find face-to-face meetings to be like an oasis, a place where people have experienced similar pain and issues as you are, who are welcoming and accepting and supportive. It was a very profound positive experience for me. In addition to Alanon face-to-face meetings and this board, I also read a million wonderful books and went in for my own individual counseling. I don't know if you can, but counseling just for you could be really helpful to work through these issues.

The big word that popped into my mind reading your posts was - boundaries! I came into Alanon with very few boundaries. Families affected by addiction often struggle with healthy boundaries and they are sooooo important. Boundaries are also tools that we can set for ourselves regardless of what those around us are doing. Their actions and their responses are not our responsibility nor can we change them if we try. But we can protect ourselves and have more serenity in life using boundaries. The hardest times are when there's a conflict with someone you love so much, like your daughter. New boundaries can be really tough, but I have found that it keeps getting easier for me as my family adjusts to the new me. The new me has boundaries and communicates them and is sooo much happier. I don't know if this fits your situation or not, but it definitely fit my situation!

Another word I would rely on is detachment! It's so hard, especially when you love these people so much, but detachment is so important. Their feelings and problems are their own, and yours are every bit as important and valid. You can't change them, but you can change you and how you respond. It really can get better and you are so worth it.

Wishing you lots of hope and strength,
Doozy

Donna Lee · Member

Doozy...give me an example of your boundaries. I have been so lost with all this and the range of emotions I feel leaves me drained. Funny thing...most people I know think I am a strong person able to deal with almost anything. And believe me, the things I have had to deal with over the past 5 years is crazy--deaths in the family, research on dementia, find a health facility for my mother-in-law, arranging and selling her possessions, finding renters for her home, getting Medicaid for us, having father pass away and getting problems fixed with his will (without a lawyer). All these things I handled by myself with some help from my husband--I chose to smoke more, he chose to drink more. But what I can't seem to find is the tools to help my husband. I've never been in this situation before. And I am not a perfect person. I am not as strong as people think I am because I know I have my weak side. This is why my daughter knows what buttons to push to make me feel that this is all my fault and that I should have stepped in to protect her from years of his alcoholism. He never hurt her physically (until recently where he has grabbed her or pushed her), it is emotionally that he has hurt her the most. This, she says, is my fault and I can't help for feeling guilty. I did take her to psychiatrists. But if they tried to tell her that she is somewhat at fault, she refused to go back and I tried with other psychiatrists as well.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Boundaries can be whatever you think is rational and reasonable to protect your from hurt and abuse from others.

It can be "I don't want marital counseling from my child." "You are grown now and I did the best I could to raise you." "I'm sorry for all the damage that alcholism has caused in our family." "I can't fix your anger about your dad and your feelings towards me. I'm sorry you were hurt" "I'm done discussing and taking blame for the past."

With your husband: Domestic violence is never okay. I will call the police if you raise a hand to our daughter or me.

These are just examples and they may or may not be right for you and your situation.

Having to readjust boundaries is not a sign that you have been weak either. Often it's that you are trying to be too much to too many people and you have to set those limits for yourself and your own sanity.

Doozy · Senior Member

Hi DonnaLee,

I think pinkchip provided some really good examples for boundaries.

Sometimes boundaries are things you might say to another person. For example, I might tell my mom "I really don't want to talk about your relationship issues with Dad anymore." and then change the subject when I feel like it's too much or inappropriate. Or I would tell my exBF, "If you show up at my house drunk, you can't come in." It's important that boundaries are not manipulative and not intended to change another person's actions. They're for ourselves to protect ourselves and our needs. And it's completely healthy and necessary to set these boundaries. They might be different for each person, it's up to us to decide what exactly we need our boundaries to be. It's also important to be consistent and to follow through. "Mean what you say, but don't say it mean" is one of my favorite sayings. Addiction tends to push and challenge boundaries to their max so it's tough but important to follow through and protect ourselves.

Sometimes the boundary might be something I just think to myself and act upon without telling the other person. I might just think to myself, I'm going to change the subject or leave the room if my dad's negativity gets too overwhelming for me. Or I might think to myself, I'm not going to let it bother me if he (exBF) calls me drunk and accuses me of cheating. I know I'm faithful and trustworthy and I know that he's off his rocker. I'm not going to react. If he calls late at night, I'm not going to answer or respond. Things like that. There are a lot of even better advice and examples of boundaries on this site. You might try to search through older posts and see what you can find.

I also completely agree with the last statement - often we do try to do be and do too much for too many people and then we punish ourselves when we can't do the impossible. You sound very loving and strong and I hope you will give yourself grace to do your best. Progress is what's important, not perfection. :)

Doozy

Donna Lee · Member

I just set a boundary with my daughter who called to say she would not be home today. She asked me if I was going to work tonight. When I said "yes" she said she was going to stop by to check on my husband to babysit. I told her to back off because he was going into rehab on Monday and that I didn't need a babysitter. After she started to argue with me and call me names, I just told her to go live her life and that I didn't need a babysitter. All I asked her for was for perhaps I might need her in a week or so to have her boyfriend to mow the lawn for me. That didn't go over well and she hung up on me. I will not call her back and find a way to get the lawn cut without her help.

I have to accept, based on the comments here and thank you all, that she will punish me by staying away from home. Truth is, I am better off without the battlegrounds she causes when she is home. My husband right now knows that he will never convince her that he is currently sober. I have my doubts as well, but I have seen that he has been lucid for the past few weeks and counting the days---that is something he has never done before. He has told me that he has to show me by his actions because he knows I do not believe him entirely. Meanwhile, the lawn is being done, the pool is getting clear and there was a much need patch of carpet filling a hole on the stairs. These are small steps. But I know I have to keep my guard up and that is what I am struggling with. I no longer respect or trust my husband. This could be another elaborate game.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Donna Lee

Great job of setting that boundary with your daughter. You spoke your truth and did not abandon yourself --- that is what it is all about.

We who live with this dreadful disease do need the support of others who are attending alanon and who understand as few others can. Please continue posting here and search out the face to face meetings in your community.

It is very important to understand that we are all powerless over alcoholism You did not cause this disease, cannot control it and cannot cure it. You CAN learn how to take care of yourself and family so that this disease does not continue to destroy your life

Please keep coming back There is hope

Donna Lee · Member

Unfortunately, my daughter did not respect my boundary. While I was at work, she drove over, hid her car down the street and tried to catch him drinking. I have, at this writing, not heard from her. So I suspect she did not catch him or she is waiting to come home to confront me. All I can say is that my husband was not drunk when I came home. Before I left, he was in the pool with a mask trying to find (and ultimately fixing) holes in the pool liner. He is doing things around the house (chores he avoided because of the drinking). I know my daughter feels this is all a ruse---an elaborate scheme on his part to have us all back off. He knows she does not trust him. But he has not yet faced that the distrust she has is based on many years of lies and deception. The anger they both have towards each other I am afraid is beyond repair.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Donna Lee

It certainly sounds as if your daughter's obsession with her Dad's drinking is over the top!!!

Please continue to take care of yourself, find the face to face meetings attend andkeep coming here

You are worth it.

Donna Lee · Member

I know, Betty. And it is further fueled by a very nosy neighbor across the street whom she feels is like a second mother. This woman has been in my daughter's life since she was a child. I was once friendly with her because she was nice to my daughter. Now, she claims she has seen me buy liquor for my husband, claims he leaves a shopping store while I am inside to buy liquor next door and she calls my daughter to inform her. I am afraid that if I confront her, it will go back to my daughter and cause even more problems. The other half of me wants to know if he leaves the house when I am at work which my husband has done on more that one occasion. This woman, in my opinion, is not only a coward, she is a hypocrite. She has had her own children with drug problems, jailing, etc. I also suspect she is tailing me since she tells my daughter that she has seen me and my husband here and there doing this and that. Her mind and her timeline is also way off but you can't tell my daughter that. My husband walks around the house with water bottles drinking water all the time. And, yes, in the past they had vodka in them. But I have checked recently and there is only water. The neighbor sees this and tells my daughter she has seen him drinking. My husband knows there are people watching him and says that he would not be fool enough to drink in the front yard with the neighbor watching. Again, it is hard for me to trust my husband. The psychological toll this is taking on me drains me. I no longer know what to believe.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Again Donna

Your neighbor's interference and spying are dreadful and I can understand how you certainly need a support group of your own Here, on this Board and in alanon face to face meetings you will find just that. We do understand as few others can We know that we are powerless over alcohol and people and that our only HOPE of Sanity and a Peaceful life is to develop new coping tools that:

Keeps the Focus on ourselves, Keeps us detached from others including the alcoholic;s actions, live one day at a time and trusting a higher power for guidance

Please search out these meetings and attend you will find such warmth and understaning and new tools

You are in my prayers

Donna Lee · Member

Unfortunately, I am having problems finding a group locally that I can attend that meets my schedule. I work 4-5 days a week part-time at night and on weekends. I can't go far because I am on the last legs of my car and my husband crashed the other one last September. I am looking for a new group that I can attend the days that I am off.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Donna . Until you can locate a meeting in your area why not look into our on line meetings They are held here e every day and we also have a chat room that is open 24/7 It is so important to understand that the more we focus our energy on the alcoholic the larger our problems grow and the more unmanageable our lives become. Once we start to take care of ourselves, our needs and our lives, things begin to change.

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To join us, use the link on our Al-Anon page
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Path to Serenity · Senior Member

Boy, I'm sitting here seething just thinking about someone being so bold as to search MY house. That would be such a huge breach of my boundaries and a full scale invasion of my privacy. My son lives at home and has a right to privacy in his own room but would in no way have the right search any part of my home other than maybe 'common areas' and that's a big maybe.

My son is the A in my household and I have searched his room a couple of times but know that was wrong - I don't need to search -- I know when he is drinking, the eyes, the speech, the walk, the actions, the smell, etc. etc. I don't need to find the bottle to validate what I already to be true.

It sounds like your daughter has a serious problem with control issues - in my own journey of being a child of an alcoholic, the 1st thing I had to learn was that trying to control the A only made me as sick as the A. My son carries around a huge glass of ice water all the time (alcohol dehydrates the body) one time I actually picked up his glass & took a drink just to see.......that was a sick move on my part.

If someone was disrespecting my boundaries by searching my home, I'd be handing them a change of address form....I'm real touchy about my personal space. I fully understand where your daughter is and also understand that she is as sick as her father. She's trying to surf in a Tsunami - the need to control is her drug of choice.

I'd recommend that you make a list of the things the daughter does that feel invasive to you and from there you can start to set boundaries. One boundary that I would recommend is to tell the daughter that you do not want to hear what the nosey neighbor has to say....period.

You have your own path to walk and you do not need the daughter constantly knocking you off that path. Stand firm, stay strong and keep coming back.

Donna Lee · Member

As I mentioned, I am not a perfect person. I some ways, my daughter has had more (excuse the phrase) balls to deal with the situation. She has seen me at my lowest. Some is protection on her part, some is to punish my husband and some is complete fear that he has put me in such a sever financial situation that I am seriously in danger of losing my home and hers---can't pay taxes, can't pay mortgage. He has, without my knowledge, emptied annuity funds. In her mind, it was to buy liquor. In my mind, it was to pay bills to keep us afloat until now. Granted, he did it without my knowledge. If it wasn't for my daughter who called police when she saw him push me in a drunken rage, I wouldn't have had the nerve to get a restraining order to eliminate the alcohol in my home. The first time, I was a complete wreck about it---supporting him, losing sleep, embarrassment at going to court. The second and third time, it became so much easier with little or no guilt and sleeping at night. He has gone after my daughter in drunken rages when she has caught him drinking and I have gotten hurt caught in the middle. Besides the court ordered rehab, he has to complete a domestic violence charge. Funny, but my husband is not really a violent person and when he is not drinking, I get along with him well. I want the old husband back. Not sure this is possible but hope the double AA sessions at the hospital will convince him he has to start making amends to people. This not only includes us, it includes friends and neighbors that he thinks has spied on him when he has snuck out to buy liquor when I am not home. Each case here is different for everyone. I have made mistakes in how I have handled my situation.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.