The material presented
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Yesterday I met with my therapist and she confronted me about how I don't cry about what's going on in my marriage. She asked me why I don't cry and I pretty much told her that crying doesn't get me anywhere except left with a HUGE headache, achy eyes, and a sore nose. Also, it never goes well if I cry in front of my AH as he gets frustrated and angry and then nothing gets accomplished.
Anyway, there is a huge part of me that wants to make up with him, go to him and let him hold me and comfort me, and just forget all the awful things he's said that keep bouncing around in my head. And, then there's the other part of me that screams, NOOOOOO! You crazy woman! Don't do that or he'll just think all is well and he'll continue verbally abusing you, drinking and lying about it to you, and you'll have made no progress. I want so much to heal my marriage and I know he wants things to go back to status quo but I don't think things will ever go back to the way they were. And, that's where I have a problem. He wants a 'submissive' wife who keeps her mouth shut, accepts her poor circumstances, stays married at all costs, takes care of the kids, and is his sex goddess. Whereas, I want a relationship with mutual love and respect where I feel valued and where my past pain isn't used to exploit me emotionally for someone else's benefit. I want to know that I am free to have a differing opinion and that it will be valued. I want to trust with all my heart that my partner won't lie to me or devalue my sensitivity and soft hearted nature. I am just not sure he's the one to give those things to me, I didn't feel like he was capable of that even when he was dry for 15 years. It would take so much work on both our parts and lots of fall out and hurt feelings.
So, for now, I feel very done. I want to separate and continue to work on myself. I don't want to live with his inconsistencies. I can accept that that is who he is, I accept that he has alcoholic tendencies and/or mental illness, and I can accept that he will do unacceptable things regarding the law but does that mean I have to live under the same roof with it? No. I have choices. I want to separate with the goal being reconciliation at some point and I want to continue working with him in some sort of marriage therapy. My big question is: am I too optimistic? Can there really be a restoration? Or, am I living in fairy tale land since he hasn't even admitted that the drinking is a problem nor has he taken steps to get help for himself? UGH! I am so confused because I just don't want to throw 20 years of my life down the toilet.
The funny thing is: I had a great time in Florida while I was away. Now that I'm home I struggling again with living with mister not-so-happy-pants, LOL! AH has come right out and said, "You're hot and nice and kind and generous and I could find 10 guys today who would take you in a heart beat." Aww, that was nice of him. Except that he said it when he also said, "If you get a job outside of the home, our marriage will be over because you'll meet mister right and leave me." Gee, isn't that nice? He predicts my future adultery? UGH! I guess I just need perspectice and clarity and it's very hard to get when you live with the A 24/7. So very hard to detach when you both are home all day long and all weekend long, etc.
"He wants a 'submissive' wife who keeps her mouth shut, accepts her poor circumstances, stays married at all costs, takes care of the kids, and is his sex goddess."
If he doesnt want to hear you or your thoughts and needs and to be domestic help. You could get a job as a maid a couple of hundred miles away.
"I just don't want to throw 20 years of my life down the toilet."
Which 20 years the past or the next?
Maybe you dont need to dissolve the marriage but you sure seem to be saying you need an extended vacation.
Such actions can be Russian Roulette. If absence makes the heart grow fonder then abstinence and recovery may also.
The fact is rarely do I have enough information about anothers life to make decisions for them. Even if I do it is not my place. I just feel badly about how some of my pals here are treated...
If my posting is out of line please call me on it. I still and always will have a lot to learn.
-- Edited by All I can be on Wednesday 15th of August 2012 07:05:31 PM
I relate to you soo well, Bonnie, it's nearly the exact same story.
All I can say, I am at peace with what I did when I went through it, I am at peace with my behavior and actions, praise to al-anon! I had my enablers though, my entire family had all kinds of delicious ideas on how to hold all the aces and hurt him... soo not spiritual. My sponsor told me to let go of thoughts of revenge and cling to recovery like it was my life boat.
So I did, I parked myself in the middle of that life boat, I stopped dangling off the side. I was told to get myself to 7 meetings in 7 days, and then maintain 3-4 meetings a week, which I did. I focused on myself by working those steps (my answers are in those steps, it is doing God's work, I have no doubt) and to leave him to his Higher power, to stop judging what he was doing, when I judge him, I am relapsing, I am in that loveless perception again.
They told me to give myself EVERYTHING that I wanted in a relationship, to make that list of what I wanted and give it to myself FIRST because there was NO WAY I could EVER have those things from another human being if I wasn't giving it to me first.
What happened is, he became thrilled that I got off his back. I did it, I put down the microscope and picked up the mirror. I committed myself to MYSELF. It became humorous, he began to ask, "Do you have a meeting tonight?" LOL He really loved the change in me and the energy in our home became LIGHT again.
But he eventually moved out. My guess is, he could no longer live with a wife he couldn't control, I was getting healthy. I stopped drinking with him and began to question where all the money was going. I learned it was my responsibility to be responsible to myself, financial and otherwise. I was like you, I wanted an equal partnership, that is very reasonable. He became uncomfortable.
The point is, I have no regrets about my behavior, it was all new behavior for me and NONE of it came naturally, rather it was the OPPOSITE of what I was inclined to do after living in alcoholic insanity my entire life. I learned love and tolerance, thanks to daily phone calls to my sponsor, she was a saint.
For me, there is no such a thing as "taking the high road," which is an egoic statement which implies, "I'm the superior one. " In recovery, I have learned we are all equals, period. He decides his path. I decide mine. It's all good. God does not take sides, the al-anon over the alcoholic. My long-held religious beliefs gave me the expectation we should be on the SAME path forever and ever, and I developed a resentment when that didn't happen. What do you do when you no longer agree about how to live? That was how he explained the divorce to his friends and family, "we grew apart." That was pretty honest, actually.
You have lots of choices but the choice I made to climb into that life boat was the very BEST choice I ever made. You may want to end your marriage, that's okay sweetie, I did too when I came to al-anon. I'm just here to tell you my story, how I'm really grateful that my sponsor kicked my a** and pushed me, she pushed me hard to get healthy before I jumped ship. I like how I handled myself, and I like the way my life is today, very very much. I will never stop singing praises to al-anon for the spiritual kit that has been given me, I will never stop using those steps to reach greater and greater heights, I really want what those old timers have.
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
There is always hope. In this process you have to decide what you can live with and what you can't. What really hit me is when you said throwing away 20 years of your life..just remember each year is precious...and what would be worse is throwing away 21 years, or 22....
I left a 30 year marriage when my XAH wouldn't commit to the counseling that our therapist felt he needed. He wouldn't make the effort to change things and I couldn't stay the way they were.
For me, jumping off into the unknown was less scary than staying with the known.
I have been on my own for 2 years..I am well and at peace. I am figuring out how to be grateful for the good things that I have, (which aremany!) and am no longer obsessing on how my life didn't turn out like I had planned. I am also getting that plans are just ideas that may or may not pan out....and am learning to embrace change rather than avoid it.
Veiled threats no one does them better than an alcoholic * if you get a job out of our home our marriage is over * those are his fears and a way to continue to control . just my opinion . isolation keeps us sick , a part time job will do wonders for your self esteem and personal growth and its a great start to getting your life back on track / Louise
The subject I was trying to breach is that on occasion the byproduct of a separation can be a bottom for the A. This can sometimes lead to a recovery.
It is a difficult subject to discuss. In many ways the program cautions against using separation as manipulation to drive a forced recovery.
The headline "Feeling very done, is there hope for restoration?" was the motivation for going into a conversational danger zone.
Of course the right thing is to work on me and let others live their lives. I am not to manipulate but I can not be blind as to what the possible outcomes of certain things are. The other person can also decide to take the "path of least resistance" and move on. (Russian roulette)
All the best on your path!
-- Edited by All I can be on Thursday 16th of August 2012 07:45:15 AM
I hear you saying, you are not ready to give up, despite the difficulty. You don't seem ready to simply end it, because none of this is simple. I remember it well. I was told when one door closes, another opens. I was in that hallway for a very long time, for several years, just practicing my program one day at a time, from where I got my faith, strength, and courage. It no longer mattered what he did/didn't do, I was growing. Eventually, God did for me what I could not do for myself. I am so blessed to have had al-anon guidance to PREPARE me for everything, to help me turn my fear into faith. I see you in that hallway too.
We are not unlike the alcoholic, doing what we are naturally inclined to do, attempting to derive some sort of power from our self-made solutions, it totally seems "right" to complain about it, to just walk away, to treat the alcoholic with disdain, that of all feels very natural, I remember it, and I did it. But it was not the solution, in and of itself.
My ego was severely crushed as I began working the steps, which eventually became my salvation when my marriage did finally end. Had I not found the spiritual strength by working the steps, I don't think I could have even followed through with a divorce, I would have stayed, I would have continued doing what I was doing. Admitting powerlessness gave way for a new power. That new power is what carried me through with decisions to care for myself, to go against what my husband demanded, and make God my Higher power instead. The steps helped me build faith instead of continuing to live in the fear.
By working the steps, I could clearly see what I had done to myself, I was not a complete victim, even though, like you, I lived with lots of abuse. Because of al-anon, I was able to follow through with the divorce, in part, as an amends to myself. I had to see that I chose an alcoholic-addict for a husband, knowingly or unknowingly - I did it! If I wanted to truly avoid that pattern of behavior in the future, I had to see exactly what I did (step 4) so that I could eventually amend my ENTIRE constitution. And because I went to all the meetings I did, I could clearly see how al-anons practice that simple solution all the time, they walk away from one relationship, only to come back years later completely baffled that they had done it all over again. I did not want that. But it could be ME, there, but for the grace of God, go I. The real solution is letting my experience bring me closer to Higher power, and when I pass up on that opportunity, the universe seems to bring it to me again and again.
I was inclined to reply again, Bonnie, to encourage you to watch where you get your power. I don't hear that you are ready to leave him, you are confused like I was. I derived false power from my enablers, people who sat by and simply agreed with me, they joined in with my anger about how my marriage was crap, that my husband is a loser, etc. etc. They loved to fuel my fire with all kinds of angry ideas, how I should take him to the cleaners and be done with him. That may seem powerful, but I couldn't see Higher power in it, I saw nothing but fear in that response. I must never stop asking myself, is my behavior a human response, or a spiritual one?
Recovery is not about finding a better partner, that is sick codependent thinking again, and from a spiritual perspective, is it not like having a false idol?! To me, recovery is about spiritual lessons and soul growth, seeing how God is using my experience to invite me closer. I'm going to be okay not because I have the ability to snag a new man, but because I have surrendered that kind of thinking, I no longer make others my higher power. God is managing my life today, not me. God is using me, God is using my new relationship, it's all God's, I have turned it all over, my house, my car, etc. etc. When I keep the attitude, "Of myself, I am nothing" that is when my life becomes something.
Take what you like ((dear friend)) It is going to be okay, you'll see. Your marriage may end, and it may not, turn the outcome over to Higher power, who will ALWAYS protect and care for you. Stay in the day. Today you are married and you can still be "free," right where you are
-- Edited by glad lee on Thursday 16th of August 2012 09:16:52 AM
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
That's it, Bonnie, ask your sponsor, pick her brains, ask her HOW she got through that storm, exactly what did she do, where did her peace come from? and ask your groups too, how did they transform the fear? You stand at the turning point, see how it works for you. And then bring it back for sharing, the Solution is what always gives me hope, strength and courage to keep trudging this road too ((big hugs))
-- Edited by glad lee on Thursday 16th of August 2012 11:00:27 AM
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
Your post hits home with me, I could have written it. While I am still staying with my AH for now I totally get everything you are saying. To stay or to go is the ultimate question for most of us. It is interesting to me how similar all our A's behave, the manipulation, the blame throwing, it really is domestic terrorism. The thing is once we recognize it we can start to ignore it vs. it controlling us. Sounds like you are doing the work and coming to your own conclusions in your own time. Good work. You have reason to be optimistic, you are finding yourself, so whether you leave today or stay for another 20 years you are becoming healthier by the day and that in and of itself is optimistic. We are here for you. Hugs and prayers. ts
Bonnie - I know how when you have been committed to a relationship for soooooo long it seems like the idea of separating is a big stamp of failure on you. It was only 7 years for me and there were no kids, yet I felt that way. I wanted to keep hope that things would work out. What wound up happening is I transferred all that energy and hope for change into myself. I just took a big scary leap and totally turned the focus on hoping that I would be okay (regardless of the relationship).
It is said in meetings that alcoholics do not have mature reciprocal relationships - they take hostages. I did that - my ex-A did that. You have painted that part of the picture pretty well.
I never understood the whole "If you love someone, set them free" concept until I freed myself and then was able to love others freely (or at least more so - I'm still a work in progress).
So sorry you are in the middle of all that chaos. It's so hard to put the focus back on me when my mind is spinning the what if's. I have a million of them too .. lol.
I so agree there is no meeting of the minds when it comes to an alcoholic marriage. Regardless of what your AH does or doesn't do .. I hope you will continue to take care of yourself and go to therapy for you. He needs to just find his own way and it sounds like he's got a very painful journey of self discovery if he chooses it.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
My sponsor went through a few separations with her AH before he got sober and then he became physically abusive so she finally divorced him. She keeps telling me that separation is almost riskier than divorce because you really don't know the mental state of the A and how that person will react. She was truly trying to get me to just focus on working on the steps, ignoring my AH, and just stay in the marriage until I know for sure exactly what will be best and until I get more of the steps under my belt, too. I understand what she is saying yet staying calm in the midst of the storm is sometimes nearly impossible.
Hugs ILD .. I can only tell you from the experience of this year .. your sponsor is a wise woman. I never know who is coming to my door as far as Mr Nice Guy or Mr. Crazy Pants .. I prefer neither truthfully. I want the real guy to show up consistently, the reality is I will never get that consistency.
Even separated the calm in the storm is hard to do. Leaving for 20+ days was the best decision I have made all year. It really put some distance between me and the situation. If I allow others to suck me in I have problems with my own spin however I think I've been doing much much better. I do need space and time. I had neither for a while before I left and even when I got back .. now it's starting to come together. I do feel stronger within my own program and my resolve. He's a hot mess and getting to be a hotter mess as each day goes by. That's not my mess to clean up any more .. and I am soooo grateful.
Anyway, .. it's all good my friend and you will find your way and he will to, it's more of the question will you take the same road and do you want to wait for him to catch up. For me the answer was no, I was looking at years of waiting and even then .. the answer may have not been to walk together. I just can't do it.
With the help of alanon though I have found the answers that work for me and what is best in my own situation .. you will too. :)
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I really felt that my sponsor was turning me away from separation mainly because she said that my AH is in a volatile state right now and I have no income. She said she's been there, done that and getting back together, then splitting up again, etc is really hard on the kids. She really just wants me to focus on working my steps, ignoring my AH to the best of my ability, and then in a few months see where things are.
My son and I are joining a neighborhood Bible study group this week, too. This will really send AH into a tailspin because he'll want to come along to make himself look good but he won't be going because he wants to go. Although, he has turned his back on going to church anyway so maybe he won't want to go at all. I'm really looking forward to fellowshipping with our neighbors especially since we only moved in 10 months ago and haven't met everyone yet. I am also planning on spending a lot more time at the gym, at the library, at meetings, and on the tennis court this fall! Getting out of the house where things are very toxic is the best thing for me and for my son. We have travel plans for tournaments all lined up for September, YAY! Anyway, I know where my focus needs to be. I just keep thinking that the grass is always greener and then I realize that that's just wishful thinking. When you have the codependency issues that I have, no matter where I am in life it will not get easier unless I get healthy and being married or not married really doesn't make a difference because I need recovery either way.
Your last posting is so encouraging. Put that destination in your Alanon GPS and start moving. lol
A seperation can be a seperation from the problems but not the physical person. When one of our children goes off to college for example we feel a hole in the family. However it is still a family.
I would think detachment without malice can be accomplished by your ideas. Church and other things you mention are a family activity when you have your son involved.
I have to caution myself to not hide but to be exposed enough to grow.
The satisfaction that comes from doing the right things in life, no one can take away.
God bless you and your entire family. May you find the peace we all seek.
When I was getting to the state of being "done" I had no income. I had been on unemployment and ran out. I had no savings, nowhere to go nothing. Then I made a plan be. I went through all that I needed to get out. And while making the plan be things started to unfold. I can't say I was entirely successful because I did reconcile in some ways with the ex A for a few months but I never lived with him again. I helped him out because after I left he became homeless. Funny thing was he didn't want to help me out when I had nothing!
Anyway the al anon suggestion is to make a plan be. What would be your options if you left, food stamps, whatever. Look into what that would be. What are your housing options. I got help with the housing. I would not recommend casting adrift with nothing but I did it. It took me a year and a half afterwards to get free of all the entanglements. Some of them invovled huge financial losses. Other things happened so that I had to take on the ex A's dog as he was all but abandoned. I would have forseen none of them. I did it all with the help of this board. I stayed close to the program kept being honest to others and things got better.
I would highly recommend making the plan be with no timeline in place. When I started focuing on that I stopped beating myself to a pulp about being in the relationship.
(((((Bonnie)))))...It is what it is and that ain't perfect and I loved your post from your response to your therapist on why you don't cry (impractical LOL...I use to do that one also and would love to hear how you practice it yourself just to compare) to your learning experiences....Hmmmm detachment does work even it its out of state....hmmmm detachment felt good and I'd love a good marriage also. Read your post as if you were someone else and listen with an open mind...I came up with "She's courageous and persistent and hopeful +" That's for me. Your man is tipping...meaning he ain't as oppositional as before. I will pray that he gets more of those "What the hell is wrong with me that I need to keep standing out in the rain and thunder and lightening thinking I'm impervious." He knows his gifts. He knows you are one of them and he can call them off...and he knows he has the choice of staying with a winner or remaining a weener. He knows and he knows that he knows and I can see that you can just go and build your recovery just as good as you want and it will invite him to make choices for himself and that might be to change. It might not be very near your blueprint for him however that man probably doesn't exist anywhere. Don't asking him to choose any amount of guys for you!! Please cause he ain't good at choosing for himself even. Tell him with a few changes he will continue to do...thank you very much!!
I will pray that he comes out of the rain and gets to liking warm and dry. Separation is another word for detachment...go sit at your sponsors knee and take notes. (((((hugs)))))
The thought in my mind is using the serenity prayer to help you identify things you can change - ask yourself: IF you got to the place where you knew leaving him was what you really wanted/needed to do, what do you need to have in place? Change what you can; you can change your job status - you KNOW that if you were to be out in the world alone you have to have resources to be able to take care of yourself and your son; have your own checking account and figure out where you want to be financially if you decide leaving is the way you want to go. You don't ever have to go, but having things in place will help you find some peace of mind, you won't be putting up with unacceptable behavior for the wrong reason (no money to leave).
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
