Aloha Cora and welcome to the board...if you aren't well educated on the disease of alcoholism you are missing a ton of steps and maybe even making the situation worse.  Alcoholism is a disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions...it is a compulsion and an allergy and not even the alcoholic has any power over it until they do the very best next thing...turn their backs on family and spousal pressure and go willingly sit with other recovering alcoholics.  I of course did the same thing you are doing and just as described to me it got worse.  I went miles beyond just "talking and making idle promises"...I coulda, shoulda been jailed for some of my reactions and then the consequence was always stunning to me...she would drink and use more.  My very very best ultimatum was what I did for myself with myself...I stopped trying to control and manipulate and manage someone elses life (hers) and turned myself over the Al-Anon Family Groups to learn how to fix my own.  My life was a shambles which was proof that I was nobody elses manager and shouldn't be trusted for solutions.  I learned to mind my own business in regard to my spouse and turn her over to my HP at the same time as I turned my self over.  I turned over my marriage and family relationships and just got into the program of recovery with one statement "Please help me" and they did.

Offering alcoholism and the alcoholic an ultimatum is not fair or unfair it is just a waste of time after you learn that reasonable ultimatums are best placed on self.  My first one was to get to that first Monday night face to face meeting and keep going.  It saved my life and my HP took care of my alcoholic/addict wife.  Stick around with a wide open mind and listen cause there is more coming and even more when you find the face to face meetings of the AFG.  The number for Al-Anon is in the white pages of your local telephone book...  CALL and ask...."Can you please help me" if you get a live voice.  ((((hugs))))

The short version of what many of us have found is that ultimatums don't work.  For alcoholics to get sober permanently they need motivation that comes from within themselves.  (They also need a whole lot more things, such as the support of a recovery program instead of declaring they'll do it on their own.)  Otherwise they just don't have the strength or the longterm motivation to struggle against the disease.  I imagine nearly everyone here has tried an ultimatum.  Some of us many, many times.  If they worked, there would be no alcoholics in the world.

What we can do is to draw a boundary.  Ultimatums try to control them, but boundaries are to protect us.  For instance, if we can't tolerate being around their behavior (a reaction which is understandable), we can draw a boundary and remove ourselves from the situation, either permanently or temporarily -- or arrange it so that they leave.  Some people tell their alcoholics about the boundaries ahead of time (which generally leads to them trying to argue us out of it), some don't.  It's not necessary to do it because the boundary is for us, not to control them.

If we try to impose an ultimatum or boundary with the thought that this will shake them up and maybe make them quit drinking at last, that is certainly an understandable goal -- the problem is that it doesn't work.  So when we design a boundary, we need to make very sure that it's something that we'll follow through on and that gets us where we want to be.  If we don't follow through, they'll know right away that all our threatening doesn't really mean anything.  And we feel powerless.  Which we're not.  We're powerless over alcohol and the alcoholic, but we're not powerless over ourselves and our own choices.

If you can't live with your alcoholic any more and you know it's time to call it quits, that's a totally legitimate decisions.  Many people do find that they feel that way intensely one day, but then they leave and the next day they miss him and change their minds, and a boomerang effect develops.  So sometimes it helps to get a good grounding in Al-Anon before making the big decisions.  That way when we make them, whatever they are, we'll have the tools to stay the course.  This doesn't apply if there's physical danger -- in that case getting out and making sure you're safe are urgent.

I hope you'll read all the threads you can, find a meeting (they say to try six because they're all different), get the materials, practice the tools, and keep coming back.

I realize this is somewhat off topic but since you said it, what does perverbial mean?

On subject: I agree with Mattie that the change must come from within the person. Though I do know people who ultimatums helped with, like my sister in law. But I think she was ready, and just needed the push. Please try to find a local face to face meeting. This is too much for ANYONE to bear on their own.

Such a good conversation! Cora, I hope it's helpful to you. It's sure helpful to me. I agree with the others that ultimatums are scary things that often force us into a corner that makes us squirm, and there's no elegant way to wiggle out of them. Part of the reason for that is that often we make ultimatums in haste or without due consideration. When push comes to shove, we find we really don't want what we said we'd do.

On the other hand, if we put serious prayer and forethought into what our boundaries are, and as Mattie said, boudaries or limits have more to do with our own choices than someone else's...then if someone crosses that boundary, we are more comfortable with what our response will be. It's not a punishment to the other person; it's not a knee-jerk reaction. It is your choice as to you respond to a situation that is unhealthy for you. There's no need to blame or explain or argue. The A makes their choice as to how to behave and you make yours. Do not feel guilty. You certainly have as much right to take care of yourself as anyone.

The key here is that your boundary be set with a clear head, with insight into what is right for you. So I'm glad you're getting so much help to take your time to make decisions. Things said in a heated arguement can come back to bite you. Decisions made with a clear head make you stronger.

Clearly, your husband hasn't figured out that alcohol is poison to him and to all around him. And it affects his brain and makes him say insane things. You do not have to participate in the insanity. Good for you for finding the support you need.
(((((Hugs)))))) Karen.

I want to thank each and everyone who gave their advice, somehow I thought this was a problem other people had, I have been walking around like a Hollywood actor pretending my life was ideal, it was exhausting!!!! I thought it was the right way to handle the situation because I work at a prison as a Corrections Officer, we are taught to be consistent with our personalities, a consistent mood and behavior make you less of a target for manipulation. It works to a degree, but after a while of dealing with an alchoholic it didn't matter how hard I tried I would still have mood swings with other officers, when my boss asked me a few weeks ago if I had anything I needed to talk about because he notice I was not as pleasant to be around, I shared my circumstances with him and I was shocked to find out he is a sober alchoholic, and has been for a dozen years, he told me every day for years he wanted to drink, and even now he has the urge to drink, but he has to remember what it was all for and why he quit in the first place. he gave me the same advice that you all have. Somehow I feel less stress at work, I thought it might be because I am no longer hiding the secret burden of an AH I never imagined my boss can be part of my support environment. I am so thankful for the show of support I am receiving from everyone. (((((huggs)))))) to you all!!! Cora

I recently told my husband my boundary regarding his drinking. I phrased it as, "I am not comfortable continuing to live under the same roof with you if you continue to drink. So, if you drink again, one of us will be moving out." He knew I meant it and he took it as an ultimatum, but it really is something I said to protect myself from his future actions. Now, we have many other issues under the surface that go way beyond the alcohol. I just felt that the alcohol has been a catalyst for bringing those problems to the surface and that it needs to be addressed. My AH also said that AA was not for him and that he didn't want to go.

You'll get lots of support here and I hope you do attend a face to face meeting. It really can change your life.

I moved away to another state with my ExA and I warned him before I left that if he was gonna start drinking and verbally abusing me again (knew he was sneaking at this point) I was not going to stay. I would get in my car and leave. He continued to sneak and treat me like shit because he was resentful at me for having to hid his liquor. He figured if he couldn't do what he wanted he was gonna make me miserable and he did. I did what I said I got in my car and left. We are still separated and he started drinking heavily and got another DUI which he is blaming me for saying I ruined our lives. Takes no responsibility for his actions. I wish I would have spent sometime in Alanon before I walked out and maybe could of handled things differently. At the same time, I know that he drank before me, relapsed many times and would never work a program. Dry drunk. So I have to assume he would have relapsed again. I did go back a few months ago and things were wonderful but when it came time to talk about us moving in again he pulled back. He is not ready to quit drinking and feels I won't be able to handle it and we will back to square one. This is true. I know that, but I don't know how in his drunken state - drinking heavily he came to this conclusion. He claims I am the best part of his life but chooses to drink alone. Very hurtful. I thought when he seen how good we were together without all the anger he would happily attend his court ordered DUI classes and we could work it out. He did for a few weeks and then started cancelling appointments and drinking more. I give up.