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here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I am a sober son of a raging life long alcoholic. To keep it short, my dad was raised by a drug addicted, alcoholic party girl with no father (he died early in my dads life). He has been on and off (mostly on) drinking for his entire life and is now 72 years old, cant work, broke, and drinks vodka straight.
His day consists of:
-wake up near 9:30 when the liquor store opens
-go get vodka
-drink it in increments while sleeping the day away.
He wont return calls or emails, wont socialize. He is asking for mine and my brothers help by us supplying him with $500 each every month to "make ends meet" because he can no longer work. He claims that if we dont give him money, he wont be able to exist.
He wont go to AA (says its the same sad story over and over again), has been in rehab and detox several times but always seems to talk his way out of it. Now he refuses to go get help and says he just wants to die.
I have told him that I wont give him anymore money because I wont take part in him killing himself. My brother is on the fence about cutting him off because he has a softer heart than I do. How should we be feeling about this? If a guy wants to drink, its his right, and if dad was out enjoying himself in the bar, I might think its fine since he is having fun, But if he is just drinking and waiting for death to knock on his door, how do we deal with this? If he dies and its because I ignored him, how do I deal with the guilty thoughts of "I should have done more"?
Thanks for any advice or insight you can give me, Im so stressed, its not funny.
Thanks for the welcome! Unfortunatly, Im not really pleased about having to be welcomed, if you know what i mean.
I am trying to take care of myself and my family, and that is why I am thinking that after all these years of trying to help my dad, and him only doing the bare minimum to help himself, I have to let go and let him spin out of control on his own, hoping there is a small part of him that will want to recover. When he was younger, it was never my problem to deal with, in fact, quite often he would go into rehad or detox and I would never know he had gone off the wagon. so for years I thought he was doing good.
When he is sober, he is the nicest guy. When his is drinking, he is the most pathetic "poor me" type of guy you could see. He seems to want to have everyone pity him, almost like he gets some satisfaction from the attention. I have pretty much decided that I will back out of it as it is really bothering both my wife and I, but I cant help feeling like I am abondoning my Dad, when he appears mentally sick.
I'm sorry to hear of your predictament. I am new hear so I won't give any advice. I will be thinking of you and hoping you come to a solution you and your family are okay with doing.
Aloha Sober son and I'm only guessing that you are using that sign in and indicating that you are alcoholic and no longer drinking and working a life changing program? If you are sober you probably have real reasons from real experiences for being that so you do know something about alcohol and alcoholism. Alcohol is a mind, mood, behavior and body changing chemical...it is a toxic chemical meaning it falls in the categories of poisons...drunk is intoxicated. Alcoholism is the disease of being addicted to alcohol and it is a fatal disease...if not arrested by total abstinence. You talk about your Dad under the influence and not under the influence and I was taught as this happened in my relationship with my exspouse to learn how to identify "My wife" as opposed to "MY alcoholic/addict" so that I could learn how to respond appropirately when with either of them. I am with you and have done "No" with my alcoholic step-father. "I will not pay or participate in your addiction" is great direction and promise. "No" is a complete and fair and honest statement.
You didn't cause his alcoholism, You cannot cure his alcoholism and you will not control his alcoholism. You are not killing him...he is killing himself using alcohol and he knows it rationally. You are off the hook...you cannot do what God cannot do especially if your Dad will not allow God or you or anyone else to do it and continue to drink at the same time. I use to think of my alcoholic/addict wife as if she was normal or not different than a non-altered person and then I came to underestand...Alcohol alters. She was altered and we were altered and everyone involved were altered...we had to be just to be around her and therefore Al-Anon taught me that "Alcoholism affect everyone it comes into contact with". You are handling it one way and your brother another while your alcoholic remains unchanged...alcoholic with his hand out to any enablers he can find. Bad? nope...sick? very...it's a disease.
Help yourself first....call he hotline number for Al-Anon in your area and get to the earliest group you can get to at the time it is on in the place it is held. Go with an open mind and you will find help...If you have a mutual relationship with your brother suggest he go with you and keep coming back here also. MIP can and will help and support you as you go thru this with or without your brother or your father's drinking. You are not alone...we have been where you are at right now and felt and done the same things. Welcome. ((((hugs))))
Sober-son... I am sure that I can speak for a lot of us (and I don't usually like to assume that I can...) when I say I know exactly what you mean when you say your not really pleased about having to be welcomed! Why should I have to get help when my AH (alcoholic husband) has the problem! My father was also an alcoholic. I married an addict, then got divorced and married another one... I came to Al-anon realizing that I need help. I need to know that I don't have to fix everyone and everything, that "I didn't cause this, I can't control it and I can't cure it". That's one of the many sayings in Al-anon that have helped me. Al-anon has helped me realize that I want to take responsibility for helping my husband stay sober, want to be sober, try to be sober, feel sorry for not being sober, drive him wherever he wants to go because he lost his license to a DUI, and the list goes on and on. I have learned that is not my place but I thought it was. I thought I was a bad person if I didn't "care"... but I do care, I learned that caring sometimes looks like not caring. He is a grown man. Since I have started setting boundaries with him, he has gotten mad, tried to manipulate me, thrown temper tantrums, tried to make me feel sorry for him, tried to make me feel guilty, tried acting real sweet and nice to get what he wants, etc... Many times he has succeeded but that is because I still need to work on me and how I handle things. It is my responsibility to take care of my well-being. I am fairly new to Al-anon (been on MIP and going to face to face meeting for several months now) but I see a difference in the way I handle my life. It's a process. I have learned to take it "one day at a time". Be encouraged. Keep coming back!
__________________
Mandy
Don't settle for less than your potenial. Remember, average is as close to the bottom as to the top. ~Unknown
No matter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back! ~Unknown
Welcome and sorry you have reason to be here. I learned from years of trying to help my alcoholic husband, that my help did not help. At best it had no effect. And most times it harmed - either me, or my alcoholic husband, or both. The hardest lesson I learned was to detach with love. It was the lesson of "I love you, but I can't hurt you by helping you drink". My alcoholic husband eventually came to understand that he truly had my love. Your father may not understand, or his alcoholic brain may not allow him to. But it does not change the fact that you love him enough to not help him die by providing funds or support to enable drinking.
I hope you will keep coming back here for the support you need to take care of you.
Thanks to all for the kind words and support.
To clarify, i am not a recovering alcoholic, i used the term Sober-son because I am sober, i dont drink or smoke anything, even socialy, but i never had a drinking problem in my life. I used to drink and smoke socialy, but i quit years ago, on my own, without issue or disaster, simply because i was tired of it and i didnt want to waste time and money on useless personal selfish habits that had to productive merit. my wife is a recovering alcoholic though (15years sober) so she has been telling me a few things from her perspective and she agrees 100% with my plan of letting dad go on his own. She says that i dont have an addictive personality, but she does, and so does my dad. I guess thats the difference between a recovering alcoholic and a person who just decides they dont want to drink anymore.
From what im reading so far, my approach of leaving my dad to fend for himself is the right way to go. Part of the problem is that my brother lives in europe, so i have been the only person able to check on my dad and report hat i see to my brother. So as i back away, so is my brother backed away, in a sense. What really concerns me in all of this, is that i do not want my relationship with my brother to be comprimised. I love and respect my brother very much and i dont want my dads drinking and eventual death to be a rift causing wedge between my brother and i. He does see my point and is very close to being with me on this approach, but he is having trouble with the guilt of it all.
You know, as i read some of your own stories, mine does not seem so bad. Some of you have had to live with a spouse with a drinking problem, and that would be far worse. I feel sorry for you folks who have been in that situation, i hope it all works out for you and that your spouse gets some help.
I see that you are concerned your alcoholic father will die if you let him go. I did detach with love from my alcoholic husband, and sadly in my husband's case, he did die from his disease. I struggled with the purpose or meaning in this, but I did not feel guilt (for long) because I realized that by detaching with love, I was perhaps helping the very best way I could. I would no longer step in and clean up consequences, and perhaps one of those consequences would lead to him understanding he needs to get sober and work a program. He was too far progressed in his disease for this to be the case, but I have many friends in alanon whose partners or parents got better when we stopped enabling. This isn't our purpose, but it's a possibility. I can only encourage you to share as openly with your brother as you do here with us, this will give your relationship the best chance.
Sober son, You wrote "If he dies because I ignored him...." It's all there in that one sentence. You don't have power over alcholism. You don't have power over life and death.
If he dies it will be because he is an alcoholic and he drank himself to death (and also maybe it was his time). NONE of it will be because of you. You didn't cause his disease, you dont control it, and you cannot cure it. You can say your brother has a "softer heart" but you could also say he has weaker boundaries or is more of an enabler.
When you stop enabling, sometimes it steers an alcholic to recovery, many times it doesn't - but it will have you feeling better about your choices.
Last thing to consider - Your dad is 72 and is gonna die anyhow. That sounds harsh but it's just a fact. We all die and elderly people are most likely to die sooner. There is a way to interact with him maybe and spend time and be emotionally supportive without giving him money. That way you won't feel like you "ignored" him and missed out on time before he passed. If he makes you out to be evil cuz you don't give him money to drink with...that's on him.
Personally, (and this may sound wrong), I hope he dies soon. I dont think he wants to be trapped in this nightmare (at least his sober conscience doesnt) and if he does want to die because he sees no future in his life (never mind that he has two sons and four grandkids he could share life with and watch grow and be satisfied with watching his legacy, and tell stories, etc, etc), then perhaps its the best thing for him.
I Lost My Father to this Disease at the age of 58 and it sounds as tho you are experiencing ALOT of what I did with my Father...
I Didn't have Al-Anon & was a Budding Alcoholic myself...With a Very Addicitive Personality... My Father had 5 Children & I was still seen as the "Caretaker" because all the others learned to DETACH and Just Hate him & I Never could... He too was Very Sweet when Sober (Not when Hung over) and Even Fun to be around when in the bar enjoying himself... But He too at the end of the Drunkin Eve would go to the Poor me, everyone hates me, no one loves me, "Got any Money, I Need Smokes & Booz".... I Too took the Stand you are Questioning and Kindly told my Afather I Would Not Contribute to his Alcohol or Smokes NO MORE... So then he Quit Leanin on me, and Found his Sister who he had NO Relationship with for Years, and She Bit the "Pity Me" Story... My Father was VERY Capible of Taking care of himself till she stepped in and Started Bringing him a 1/2 gallon Bottle of Vodka every 3-4 days...
He had by then Quit Eating all together, and just depended on the booz for comfort... I Called him the Day before Thanksgiving in 08 & Begged him to come to My House for a Family dinner the next day, and he said he was to sick to do anything, and I begged again that he let me take him to a Doctor Or AA or what ever, and promised to go with him... He Rejected Every effort saying he had NO Problem, was just sick! He Died that Thanksgiving day, and wasn't found till that Satur... By his Sister that was Bringing him his Next BOTTLE! I Will Never forget Walking into his Home and Seeing (11) 1/2gallon Bottles of Vodka EMPTY on the Counter, he even Quit putting them in the trash, Like he was trying to see how many it was going to take! and the 12th bottle was next to the couch where he just quit even gettin up! I Miss my Father Dearly I Truly do and since his Death, I Joined AL-Anon & Took a LONG HARD LOOK At myself & what HIS Disease did to me... This October will be 2 years since I had a Drink, and I Can't say I'm Cured... But I Take each day as it comes to me, and Just Thank God, for not leaving me in that Numb Life, of Loneliness... I Hope to One Day be where your Wife is at 15yrs... Congrats to Her, I know a Little about what it takes to get to such a Great Triumph... She is a Great Blessing to you n such an Ordeal...
As Mentioned above, You should take care of YOU First & Formost... No One Can tell you whats right for you & your Dad, but I Can say from my experience, that NOT Giving him Cash Money is a Great Step... I Would "TAKE" my dad to the Grocery store & Let him pick ANYTHING He wanted that I was OK with...It was Tough because All he Really wanted was the "Cash" but I Would not give it to him...So when I Could get him Off the Couch and out to dinner, I Felt Good Knowing "That Day" he ate well ;) and I did not add to his Disease... That was ALL his Own Doing, and if your Brother Really Understands what this disease is about, he will not let you go but Love you More for All you have had to go thru with Dad while he was Away in his own life... As Stated, You Didn't Cause it, Can't Control It, & Can't Cure it... Thats Between him & his God...
I Only Made ONE Promise to my father and that was, that the day he lay to rest He Would KNOW for SURE I Loved him! I Kept my Promise even tho he couldn't keep any of his... Weather your Dad is Here or Gone, I hope that you Keep Stopping in, and Keep Reading other Story's Like yours, and See that there truly is HAPPINESS from this Disease, even if it takes a While to see it... You came to the Right Place for Support, and I'm Glad you are here...
Please Take what you like & Leave the Rest... ;) In my THoughts & Prayers
I think there is a difference between detaching and ignoring. It certainly doesn't seem like you are ignoring your father after all you are making a lot of effort to keep in touch with your brother. As someone who lost my mother I don't think there are any guarantee's about how or what your brother will do if and when it happens. As your father is elderly though and seems to be neglecting himself it seems pretty probable that it may happen. At the same time I know plenty of my neighbors who are alcoholic, do exactly the same thing as your father does, and who seem to be living despite themselves.
There are differences between not giving money and giving certain other things though, like food. If your father is broke, he will certainly qualify for meals on wheels. Of course he will tell you he doesn't want them but you can nevertheless arrange that. There are also programs like In home supportive services where someone who isn't connected with your family can go in and check on him. There are lots of programs for frail elderly, obnoxious, resentful alcoholics. There are lots of people, doctors, social workers and more who are good at taking note of what is going on. Detaching doesn't necessarily mean you wash your hands of him and walk away.
Of course working against the disease of alcoholism is a pretty big undertaking. The feelings that come up around it are pretty overwhelming. My mother was not a drunk but she was obnoxious, proud, stubborn and incredibly unreasonable. Nevertheless at a certain point she did take meals on wheels, she did allow someone in her home to help out. Social services are adept at dealing with people who don't have the best of personalities. They are good at dealing with obstinate, proud people who have other ideas. Maybe they can help.
