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Post Info TOPIC: CAN ANY FORMER A'S ENLIGHTEN US SPOUSES WHY U CHOOSE THE ALCOHOL


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CAN ANY FORMER A'S ENLIGHTEN US SPOUSES WHY U CHOOSE THE ALCOHOL


I feel like I need to go to an AA meeting and give them the third degree.  Why, Why, Why......

Any former A's that can help with this would be appreciated...



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Moving on to happier days...



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I asked myself the same question...trying to understand more.

I went to AA board, and read through the posts to listen to their stories.

And I read in the Big book:

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm

Chapter 1-3 contributed more to my understanding of the disease, also Chapter 8. To Wives. It's written in the 30's, but it's the same disease, so you don't even notice much about the difference in time..same issues, same pain, same effects.



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~*Service Worker*~

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I can share why I think my A drinks, gambles, and lies: First the lies-that is an attempt to keep oneself out of trouble but it just makes more trouble. I tell my A if she's doing something she feels ashamed of, she shouldn't be doing it. The alcohol and any substance or excessive behavior, is a try at killing emotional pain. It's like cutting-people want to direct the pain away from their mental state so they put it somewhere else. The alcohol is numbing. It helps cover low self-esteem and other undesirable personality traits. And if there is a genetic component, the urge is all the more stronger. Some people are very shy and the alcohol removes the shyness. The alcohol helps people temporarily forget their problems. I think alcohol and drugs are a quick fix if you can't stand being with yourself~alter your mental state. And for some folks who are filled with rage, the alcohol allows them to discharge it. These are some of my thoughts, Lyne

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Lyne



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I'm not an alcoholic.  But the way I understand it, you know how hard we find it to live without our alcoholics?   How we try to rationalize staying with them?  And deny that they have brought intolerable insanity into our lives?  And feel panicky at the thought of losing them?  That's how they feel about their alcohol.



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~*Service Worker*~

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It's a mental illness in which the person seriously thinks they can have alcohol PLUS everything else. It usually requires an insane amount of suffering before the alcholic realizes that it truly is alcohol that is taking away everything. By the time this realization even begins to occur, the alcoholic is so addicted that they have trouble even comprehending what it would take to sober up. Drinking becomes the primary coping skill. Alcoholics become conditioned to drink in the face of every stressor and every emotion. At that point, it is such a horrible addiction that it almost is not really a choice.

Yes - there is a choice to enter into recovery, but the commitment, willingness, openmindedness, PLUS the level of misery it takes to finally admit powerlessness over alcohol is so intense that most folks do not get there. I know that I was moderately functional throughout my drinking in that I kept a job and never went to jail....Nonetheless, to learn to live life without alcohol....if felt like I had to go through childhood all over again. For like 2 years I was crying and bitching and calling my sponsor about every little problem. I gave up my only way to manage stress and "forget" about problems. It was a day at a time that I learned to live life again. I don't think I'm special for getting sober. I'm not sure why I got this gift when others do not and for that I do feel blessed.

I hope that helps.

(I also will PM you something I posted here a while back about all the excuses alcoholics use to drink - that spelled it out pretty clearly for me - all the distortions I used to use and the messed up reasoning that is at the core of addiction).

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~*Service Worker*~

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Aloha JJ...go to the third sticky above your post and read what John posted.  I learned some about the disease of alcoholism from the AMA definition.  We use to read it at the start of all of our Al-Anon meetings when I got into recovery in Al-Anon.  Early on I gave my alcoholic/addict wife the third degree also which included a bible.  I got the bible thrown back at me and learned along with my sponsor asking me "Why did you do that?" that no amount of 3rd or 4th or more degreeing is going to do anything other than pissing them off and making them step farther and farther back from the relationship.  Alcoholism for me is the most powerful, cunning and baffling disease I've ever met and that includes college and being a rehab behavioral health counselor.  This is a disease of compulsion and obsession and addiction and one of the first thing it erases is the will and then the mind goes quickly after that.  It is for me four level...mind, body, spirit and emotions...all at the same time.  What is something you are addicted to...just have to have or do...obessive about it...complelled to do it or try it or use it in spite of the awareness that you don't control it...it control you.  Maybe for you it's your alcoholic and the disease of alcoholism...the thought that if he or she or they really wanted to they could think their way thru this and stop or modify or such.   From experience the program always told me ...."If you had been able to think your way out of this, you wouldn't be here".  True and I couldn't and that is why the first part of the first step is the admission that "We are powerless and..."  the second part relates to the consequence of not believing that and attempting power and control such as "giving them the third degree"; that doesn't ever work and so our lives become unmanageable. 

I am also a recovering alcoholic...born and raised in the disease...never knowing that what was happening to me at the age of 9, when I had my first drink that a key was turned and that I would think that "God" the answer to all of my problems was in that bottle.  I drank and drank and drank.  My exspouse and my family had several expressions for my drinking...one was Wow!! you just never go down, you can't be alcoholic".  My alcoholic/addict wife? "Gosh I wish I could drink like that"!  The bartender "You're gonna drive where"?  My mind "Why is my skin this sickly yellowish/greenish color.  Did my catholic mother have an affair with an oriential"?  The assessment nurse at the ARC where I counseled other alcoholics and addicts after reviewing the only self assessment I finally completed, "Who ever belongs to this assessment needs to be in inpatient treatment immediately or the next time they drink they die"!  I admitted to 3 toxic shocks after 9 years of not drinking a drop and being in Al-Anon.  How close I was to a relapse would only be determined by that part of the disease I was not paying attendion to...revisiting the compulsion and allergy.  My HP allowed me 9 years of alcohol free time to be in and around and about recovery and the industry so that I could be here right now.  Had I relapsed...impulsively taken that one long missing drink my body, mind, emotions and spirit would not have outlasted the onslaught of toxic shock drinking.  You never go back to the first drink...you go back to where to stop and then do catch-up.  That is the nature of the "ism".  Alcoholism never sleeps and it never retires while the alcoholic is still alive.  Recovery is active behavior, thought, feelings and intention.  It is soooo powerful that it is the reason you are here today with us joined together to keep outselves safe and sane from the consequences of it in our lives.

Go raid a meeting and stand up in the middle of it and tell them off and how it is and how it should be and what they should do.  The drunks will either laugh or get indignant or such.  The ones with more time feeling that the meeting is more important than your ranting might make a 911 call and have you removed if you haven't left by then and maybe some will ask you to sit, be still and quiet and listen and then hang around after the meeting and talk...just like an Al-Anon meeting.

Understand what you feel like doing has already been done before.  I've done it in both rooms...I've been asked to leave with the invitation to keep coming back.  I've had my life threatened by people inside of Al-Anon meetings and the AA program.  This is a disease of insanity and many times I was the carrier. 

A safer thing for me to do today when I'm feeling indignant about anything is to give myself a time limit...go outside to a safe place and then throw the most dramatic tantrum I can and after it is done...straighten up my clothes and my hair and say..."there I got myself good that time!!"  Then I get humble and ask my HP "what's next...I'm done".

The only answer to a "Why" question for a person who hasn't learned to accept is another "Why" question.  That comes with merry-go-round music.  My sponsor taught me to add another word at the end of the Why?...add not and use acceptance.

I know where you're at...what it feels like, sounds like, smells like, tastes like and such.  For me If using acceptance didn't seem like the most courageous action...I'd go tantrum...and not in a meeting of AA or Al-Anon...we've all been there, done that.  Had to try something else with greater management.

In support...Holding you up to my HP...and smiling at how I use to do it until I learned a different way.

(((((hugs))))) smile



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~*Service Worker*~

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I am sure there are thousands of reasons an A can come up with to drink , but none of them make any sence , this is a disease and it dosent need a reason . what matters for us how it affects us when then they do , Al-Anon will help answer those questions .  I gave up trying to understand and just accepted that they drink period . I am never going to understand the compulsion to drink anymore than the alcoholic is going to understand  how thier drinking affects me.  Alcoholism has nothing to do with them not loving us , and we are not the reason they drink regardless of what they say , were simply not powerful enough to make anyone drink or STOP .



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This makes a ton of sense and describes me...sadly. My functioning alc is ruining our family yet I panic at the thought of leaving.

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When all else fails...there is Faith, Hope and Prayer.

Jen


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I go to an open AA meeting on a weekly basis and am welcomed there. It has greatly enhanced my ability to understand this disease and learn to separate the alcoholic from the disease. You might want to ask someone in your group if there is an open meeting nearby, or just find the local AA schedule online to find one.

Attending open AA meetings gives me hope for those still suffering this disease.

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~Jen~

"When you come to the edge of all you know you must believe in one of two things... there will be earth on which to stand or you will be given wings." ~Unknown



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"Its impossible to  rationalize insanity."

Read Getting Them Sober, volume one, toby rice drews



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Putting HP first, always  <(*@*)>

"It's not so much being loved for ourselves, but more for being loved in spite of ourselves."

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~*Service Worker*~

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My wise old sponsor encouraged me to stop worrying about the whys, and focus on the whats....

The 'test' for which is which, is to ask yourself the question "if I knew the answer to what I am worrying about, would it really change anything?"

Using your "why" question you posted.....  Let's say, for example, that the reason that alcoholics choose the alcohol is because they were:

a) because they were loved too little by their parents when they were young

b) because they were loved too much by their parents when they were young

c) because their xyz valve wasn't connected to their abc diaphragm;  or

d) all of the above....

 

Okay, so now you know exactly "why" the alcoholic chooses the alcohol - does it change one iota of the current circumstances you are facing and having to manage your way through??

Believe me, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out the "why", and in the end, finally accepted that the "why" is largely irrelevant.  The answer didn't help me get better, nor did it help my A get better...

Just my two cents

Tom



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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

"What you think of me is none of my business"

"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"

 

 

 

 



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I completely understand your feelings on this, as I am in the same boat and have considered the same actions. Tom is right, the 'why' is irrelevant and doesn't make the situation any different, but I know it is important to you at this moment because you are feeling like you are not loved as much as a stupid bottle and want to know what makes that bottle so much more important than you are to your A. It has more to do with the beating our self-esteem takes when we are married to alcoholics. I don't know what your current situation is, if your spouse is in treatment or not. But for years now I have lived with an alcoholic spouse and carried so much anger inside me, feeling exactly like I imagine you feel - "Why am I not enough? Why can't he come to me with his problems? Why is it, that when I tell him I will take our children and leave him if he doesn't stop, he still continues to drink?" I've had people tell me it's because I enable him by staying, that he doesn't really believe I will leave, blah blah blah. None of this is really true. The fact of the matter is he's addicted. The alcohol has changed his brain to the point that he can no longer think rationally. Despite the fact that he tries to sneak it by me and gets caught EVERY SINGLE TIME, his sick alcoholic brain always convinces him that he can get away with it. His body gets physically ill if he goes too long without alcohol in his body, to the point that his blood pressure skyrockets and he is at high risk for seizures. I know this because I took him to the hospital yesterday to be admitted for detox, and he is currently sitting there, hooked up to a blood pressure monitor and on a lithium drip to prevent convulsions. Never before did I realize how bad this was- if he had completely stopped cold turkey on his own for more than a couple of days, he could have even had a heart attack or stroke. He's only 40 years old. Up until just these past few days I was under the impression that this was all a psychological compulsion and that he was simply being selfish and not trying hard enough to quit. I had seen him go for weeks without drinking before with very few, if any, withdrawal symptoms, but now I realize he probably still was drinking just enough to keep those symptoms away. Once I came to terms with the level of physical addiction, it has helped me realize that he wasn't choosing alcohol over me or the family per se, he was choosing it just so he could function enough to not be taken away by ambulance. So while this throws me into a pretty serious depression out of fear as to what will happen next, I'm also not asking myself 'Why?' anymore.

(((Hugs))) to you. I'm right there where you are now and it's terrible. If you haven't already and your spouse is willing, I'd see about getting him into an addiction specialist (psychiatrist- M.D.) right away. He will need to go at least 24-48 hours without drinking beforehand so they can assess his level of withdrawal. Don't be surprised if it comes out to be much stronger than you might think. Good luck.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Because they are addicted and that is how addiction works. The hard thing to swallow for me, and I suppose most of us who love an addict, is - why would they give everything up to pursue their addictive substance? My ex is living in squallor in a junky trailor because his addiction has him firmly in hand - he THINKS he's in control and THINKS he could stop any time.....after all, its just beer.

A rational (well semi-rational), unaddicted person like me, can think, mmm, a cold beer would go good with this burger but oh well, I can't because ______________; and go on with my day, get my work done, not a big deal. My ex could never choose not to drink if it was available - not "would never", but "COULD never". I came to see that he was/is truly powerless over it.

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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
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