"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

imom · Senior Member

ending this cycle

Jennifer · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello (((imom))) and welcome.

I am finding myself about to write the very thing I least wanted to hear when I was in your shoes. But it helped.

HP, grant me the serenity (please)
to accept the things I cannot change (my A's choice to use)
Courage to change what I can (my reaction)
and the wisdom to know the difference (on a continued basis)

Honestly the Serenity Prayer got me through. Even when I added the sometimes bitter thoughts to the end of each line. Offering my anger at what seemed to me his lack of follow through to a commitment to my HP also helped. I hope this rough patch eases for you soon and that you can get back to meetings :)

Jen

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

For me and I still struggle with this from time to time .. it's about the 1st step .. I am powerless over the effects of alcohol. I am powerless over people, places, things (and the past I throw that in as well). The fact is alcoholism is a disease not a choice. Would I be angry and make comments if they had a mental illness? No, and that is how I came to be at peace with the idea of alcoholism as a disease. There is a great sticky about that very topic though alcoholism as a disease.

QTIPing (Quit Taking It Personally) is what I have to do to remind myself that what my soon to be ex does or doesn't do it is not about me. It is the disease in full swing. When I stopped taking everything my s2bx did as a front to me then I stopped having the need to nag so much. I am better about stating how I feel about something one time and then letting it go.

There is so much wisdom, experience, strength and hope on this board I hope you will keep coming back. You aren't alone in your frustrations, you aren't alone in trying to figure out how to answer children.

If there is an alateen program in your area I would encourage you to check it out with your daughter. I also have a 13 year old and an 8 year old, we are rural so there is no alateen available .. however .. they see what is going on, they ask questions and we talk. I work very hard not to say negative things about their dad. They see what is going on and what I noticed about my own kids is when they are asking questions they are scared because they know something is not right and they need reassurance that they are loved and safe, regardless of what their dad is doing or not doing. They also know their dad loves them the best he can, they are learning to draw boundaries as well as love him where he is at.

Please keep coming back, hugs P :)

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

You've already received some great feedback re: Serenity Prayer and QTIP.

Can I ask a question - is your marriage counsellor trained in addictions?? I cannot fathom how ANY counsellor could suggest that an alcoholic could "take a week off so you guys can work on your relationship"..... yikes. Just my two cents, but I personally found that marriage counselling - when the A is active - is an exercise in futility, and if you really want to go through with the counselling - the minimum standard needs to be that the counsellor has some semblance of addictions training....

Take care

Tom

Green Eyes · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree with Tom. When we met with a marriage counselor (who also specialized in addictions), he assessed both of us together and then separately. After that, he told us that he needed to meet with my AH individually before we could move on with couple's sessions. Of course, my AH said, "no." He would only see the counselor if we were together. We never went back since it was futile to move forward if my AH wasn't getting help with his drinking issues first.

imom · Senior Member

thx for the helpful comments and advice.
Yes, our counselor does specialize in addiction and to clear it up, I was simplifying the story. What he said was that before we could go on to fix our marriage my AH needed to end his love affair with alcohol. I only put this week into it because we are seeing him weekly. I simply wanted my AH to make it through this week so we could address it again when we went back.
My AH went to rehab but didn't last more than a weekend there. He came out and lasted a few weeks and went to a few AA meetings but did not get a sponsor and hasn't been back in a few weeks.

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear imom - you asked HOW do you do .... all these things. The answer is, by delving into Al-anon. Read, think, learn. The only way out is the way through. so many times I have envisioned myself as a donkey following a carrot on a stick tied to her back - read, think, learn. The only way to do all the things you listed in this post is to read.... think.... learn...... Find Yourself.

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to this board. During my *husband's active alcoholism days, it was great support for me. I'm sure you'll find it very helpful.

I, too, used to argue with him about his drinking. I spent about 16 of our 36-year marriage arguing with him, pleading with him, and, oh, spewing out threats of what I'll do or what will happen IF he doesn't stop drinking. In short, nothing I did or said stopped him. Only he, himself, could decide that enough was enough. That was last year, the summer of 2011. He has been an active member of AA since then and doing well in terms of not drinking.

However, he has health concerns due to all the alcohol abuse. He is 6'1" and now weighs 289 pounds. He used to weigh 189. Way too much man for me. But more importantly, the weight gain is a red flag. His legs & feet are consistently swollen, which limits his time on his feet. His abdomen is LARGE. All this indicates alcohol-related cirrhosis. I've done a lot of research on this and softly encouraged him to go see his doctor. He finally took the suggetion just yesterday.

The doctor suspects the same thing. So tests are ordered. We went grocery shopping after the appointment, but that didn't stop him from putting junky food in our basket. I could have spent the time lecturing him about his food choices, but just like his choice of consuming alcohol, I could not change it. I'm powerless.

As likemyheart shared with you, part of learning to detach usually involves the acts of "read, think & learn." I read and thought a lot, plus went to individual counseling for years; the psychologist was not an expert in alcoholism and this is why, my opinion, it took me years to get it. Attending Al-Anon meetings is what helped me solidify, and, more importantly, put into practice all that I had learned. I sat at meetings and mainly listened. That was the ticket for me. I have the detachment thing down fairly well, even though my attachment tendencies try to crop up now and then. I can nip it in the bud when it does.

Detachment is possible, and detaching with love is too. First, I detached with anger. But the anger I harbored was damaging me. So I took it further and learned to love him unconditionally. Loving unconditionally is a daily practice. I slip up and then realize my control button wants to activate. And meditation is a big part of how I stay in contact with my HP, the God of my understanding.

Oh, how I used to almost vomit when I heard others speak of a HP. But I worked my way through that emotion, dug deep, but was gentle with myself and continue to be.

It's all a process. Just know that many were at your stage, the stage of wanting to fix the alcoholic, and got through it. likemyheart is right, you have to go through it to get to the other side. How you go through it is a personal journey. Reaching out for guidance was and is part of my journey.

I hope this too long of a post helps somewhat.

As someone suggested, The Serenity Prayer is a great tool. I recall reciting it numerous times a day in the beginning.

Take good care, Gail

-- Edited by GailMichelle on Wednesday 20th of June 2012 09:39:16 AM

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Before you decide the counselor is incompetent: Many people in AA and some counselors too will state "See if you can stop drinking for a week and then then you will know if you are an alcoholic or not." If he could not even stop drinking for a week to work on the marriage then perhaps when the counselor brings this up in counseling, it could cut through some of his denial about being an alcoholic. Like most alcoholics, I am betting he told your counselor "Oh---I only have a couple of drinks a night. It's no big deal." Taken at face value, that is alcohol abuse and not alcohol dependency (alcoholism). He would be able to "just stop" for 1 week. Counselors don't know when people lie to them all the time. Even if the counselor suspects he is an alcoholic, she/he will now get a much clearer picture based on the fact that he couldn't stop drinking for the 1 week suggested.

If a counselor knew someone was a full blown alcoholic, sending them to detox would be the answer before marriage counseling. But that's a big "if" If the person is an alcoholic but still drinking like 4 drinks a day -Hitting AA meetings and stopping would not kill them.

orchidlover · ~*Service Worker*~

I did a lot of arguing with the ex A. I think while I was arguing I wasn't really getting he was an addict.

One book I found really effective in getting a grasp of just how much an obsession drinking is was 90 days by Bill Clegg.

Personally i did it up to here with trying to get other people to intervene, getting his mother, brother, friends whoever to help. None of them could he didn't want sobriety. I asolutely couldn't grasp that in my obsession.

When I detached things got clearer. By the way detachment wasn't certainly perfect. I had times when I argued with him stillb ut when I took breaks I learned that I didn't want to argue anymore.

The real help for me for a long long time was this board. I was willing to share a lot and got a lot of feedback. For many reasons I trusted that feedback more than I did other people.

I alwys had someone who I felt was standing in the way of the now exA's getting better. His mother, his brother, his friends, his boss, his neighbors, our landlord, his new landlord. He had a whole long retinue of who they were. The best friend one day became the enemy the next. Alcoholis and addicts are very good at creating chaos around them. They make it all someone else.

You can fire the therapist if you want to. You can stand on your head but nothing and nothing will stop him drinking until he is ready to do it.

Maresie.

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

First , go back to your meetings you need support . If you have an ODAT go to page on July 14th that page changed my life , the line that jumped out at me was * don't assage his guilt by arguing with him * when we do that it is an excuse for him to drink , walking away leaves the choice his and his alone . I was told to put a bottle of what he drank on the table and talk to it , say every thing I wanted to say and remember when alcoholic is practicing I am talking to a bottle , somehow that made sence to me . If you can get some Alateen literature for your daughter , read it with her teens also have a daily reader small red book* A day at a time * , all sharrings are from teens . Kids only want to know the truth he has a disease and at the moment it is running his life , she knows something is wrong our kids miss nothing when they have the facts they can deal with it . Louise

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"