The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I got a call from my ex-A today. I let it go to voice mail cuz I was out with my current partner having lunch. The ex stated he wanted to talk about his latest book he is writing. He writes when drinking and sometimes it comes out pretty decent, but none of it is going to win a pulitzer or anything. That would have been all fine and dandy, but then he goes on to say that he has broken up with his crack addicted boyfriend for like the 20th time and the crack addicted boyfriend has "left him in a lurch" again. This has happened multiple times and he always seems to call me when he "breaks up" with this guy. Then he gets back with the guy again. My ex has a particular history of getting involved with alcoholics and drug users and then clinging to them because I believe he wants someone so sick they cannot leave him alone. Anyhow, this boyfriend of his has robbed him many times and the stories keep getting more ridiculous. He asked me to borrow 20 dollars cuz he doesn't have money to get to work on monday. I'm finding the whole thing kind of annoying and I would think that I would be the last person he would call asking for money now. I mean 20 bucks for gas is not gonna break me but I don't know what to do really. I do believe my ex needs alanon and AA in a major way. I care about him but I do not want to set a bad precedent loaning him money. He has not asked me for anything since we've been broken up and that's been almost 4 years. Not sure what my feedback to him will be. Feels wrong to not call him back and have some answer/response though. I am open to suggestions. I am much more versed on AA than alanon as most of you guys know. This one is almost a question of how would you support a friend who keeps going back to their druggie boyfriend. If it were not someone I had such a history with, I'd say "hell no...you should have known better than to get back together with that crack head theif." I think that is why he called me. From what I hear, all his other friends have bailed on him over his choices with this guy. Sad for him and a bit confused. Almost feel a little guilty that my life is so much better and his still sucks so bad.
I don't have any direct ESH here. But I like what others have said "If he can find a way to buy alcohol, he can find a way to get to work (or whatever). Your recovery is amazing to me, that you can have so much compassion. Try never to feel guilty for having a good life--you earned it by working your recovery. If all of his other friends have bailed and you come through with the $20, how much more will he need? Alanon is pretty big on not enabling. Good luck!
__________________
It's easy to be graceful until someone steals your cornbread. --Gray Charles
The reality is you don't have to call him back about it. It is ok not to respond. It's no different than a text. I know I have felt the need in the past to respond if something is asked of me or in my case a direct attack was made. I don't have to, it's truly not my mess and even more so it's none of my business.
Hugs Pink, .. I know how hard this kind of thing is, I think somewhere in the middle of what you want to say is pretty appropriate. Hey sorry to hear that you are having a hard time. If you want to talk, I'm here for you. I wouldn't even bring up the money stuff and if he does .. no is a full sentence. The only way he's going to seek help is when his pain outweighs the emotional payoff, it's just as true for alanon as it is for aa.
Hugs P :)
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
If he is close to hitting bottom, your sympathy at this point might be the same as enabling him. Maybe he needs to here a "hell no". If you lend him money now what makes you think you will be able to say no to him a second time. It doesn't sound like he has changed much. You couldn't help him before, what makes you think you can help him now...not returning his call is making a statement, compassion can also mean letting him hit bottom. I'd say if you decide to talk with him you let him know the conversation will be about him getting sober and making some changes, and see if he still wants to talk. But please remember the 3C's when you are thinking about your friend. Oldergal
__________________
Don't Worry About Growing Old, It Is A Privilege For Some Of Us.....
For me, when I am confused, it's usually because there is something about reality that I am not accepting, that's when I start losing clarity. In this case, perhaps you're not accepting your powerlessness, only YOU can know that.
Ask yourself, what would be your MOTIVE for calling back, your MOTIVE for giving the money, your MOTIVE for keeping in touch.... etc, etc.
Perhaps you still feel love toward him, I feel that way about my ex too, but I know I don't have the power to change him. Today, I am kind to him when I have to see him, but that's about it. On a daily basis, I send him love on the spiritual plane because he is the father of my children and I do care about him. I have had to write about the REGRET I feel that we cannot be a family together anymore, this made me sad for a long time and it was coming out sideways in my current relationship. Only recently, have I been able to come to peace with that regret.
If you can give the money without harming yourself in any way.... no expectations, no attachments, etc. etc. then, no big deal. Do it if it will bring YOU more peace, DON'T do it if it will bring you more stress. That is how I might determine God's will for me, my Higher power doesn't want me to harm myself anymore, I work on making these amends to MYSELF.
Because our journey is inspired by Higher power, we never apologize.... or feel guilty..... about our spiritual growth. Let yourself off the hook there, my friend. Enjoy this beautiful day!
-- Edited by glad lee on Sunday 10th of June 2012 10:08:34 AM
__________________
The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
I know in your graduate work you have studied the concept in psychology known as reinforcement.
IMO, if you reinforce his behavior by responding, at all, you will get more of it. If you give him money, isn't it more about your own feelings of guilt, rather than what is best for him?
And if you give him $20...you might as well just buy booze (or whatever) for him outright.
If you decide to call him back, do you think he will understand the "no" even with the best, most well thought-out explanation from you?
Don't take the bait. Say a prayer for him instead, and let HP take it from here.
Sounds like a lot of drama imho. Having read your responses to other people's posts on this board, I'm thinking you'll know what's the best choice for you. A few things I try to keep in mind when I come up against a scenario like you mentioned is to check my motive and ask myself "what are you getting out of it?" Ya know... what's the payoff for me? Ego boost for me? Am I getting enmeshed in another's sickness? Am I engaging in someone else's insanity, giving away my serenity to an unhealthy situation rather than saying no to them and yes to myself. "Keep the focus on yourself," is the tool I need most in those moments. When I use it, I don't have to over think the situation. I don't have to run through all the what ifs. I can mind my own business which is me.
From what I understand from my recovering abf, AA is about maintaining sobriety by ridding yourself of selfcenteredness and part of that is helping the fellow alcoholic. In Alanon, my recovery is about centering myself to maintain sanity. From that came a healthy kind of selfishness based in new found self worth. It's ok to say no without guilt to people I love and I don't even owe an explanation if I don't care to give one. If it feels right, I might say yes but either way... I choose without thought of what they will think of my choice. To thine own self be true, ya know? I really try to keep hands off today and not get in the way of someone regaining their dignity and learning how to live life on life's terms. Aren't all of us in recovery doing just that odaat? :) Maybe you're ex will reach out a hand to his hp soon instead of for next $20. Hugs. TT
__________________
Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
I have learned in Al Anon to allow people the dignity of learning from the consequences of their choices. Sending you tremendous support. I hear that this is affecting you deeply. I find reading certain passages from Courage To Change helpful and turning it all over to God. Take care the thanks for all your support on this site!
I had a similar thing happen with my ex, he wanted me to buy him food. Just $50 worth of soup type stuff so he could eat for a few weeks. I said no, because if he wasn't so intent on spending all his money on beer he'd have food money. He went into a tirade about how cold and cruel I was, how mean I am to let him starve and his asking me for food wasn't him asking me to buy him beer. He survived and is still living in squalor which he blames on me. Something I started doing was to just wait, not call back, let some time go by and see if he asks again, he usually doesn't. If he asked again I wouldn't though - I clean toilets as one of my jobs, I am dis-inclined to give my money away so someone can buy booze. And it is buying booze with it, truly, even if you fill his gas tank then he doesn't have to and will spend his gas money on booze.
__________________
I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
Pinkchip, I know you know the answer. You are so smart and have grown so much and helped so many people over the years that I have known you on this board. I had a foster daughter that moved out when she was 18 and pregnant. Over the years she would call and ask for $20, $10. She always got the same answer.... NO. She had a series of boyfriends, hubbys, lots of marijuana, booze, 6 kids of her own, poverty, more poverty, more poverty, occasional job, more poverty. I always felt bad for her but I also know that her choices were not my choices. I knew if I started giving her money I would want to make some of her choices for her.... and she wouldn't like MY choices. To keep my serenity and stay out of her business, I had to say no. I still feel bad for her and the kids, but HP is in charge. Not me.
Thanks guys. These responses have helped.. Many of the times when I've talked to him over the last couple of years he has been down and it was because of bad choices. Most of the times it was cuz he was breaking up with this boyfriend. I had thought his financial drama was over and that he was finally enjoying a steady income (as he started a decent job right when we broke up after being unemployed large periods of our time together). Hearing him be broke and needy like that took me back to a bad place and thinking it was within my power to fix him or that my "helping" was going to matter in the long run. It's not.
So true, I have watched my sister her whole life struggle. She refuses to work. She can work but calls my business a deadend job. I started cleaning homes 23 yrs ago. I am always working and paying for a house, own my car, and have savings. So when she has her phone disconnected because she has no money to pay, shes in her 50's on welfare most of her life living with 7 cats, how are her choices my problem? Yes, I feel bad for her, but not enough to enable her justifying continuing to live off others for no reason other than she knows how to work the system. I too have 5 cats that depend on me and an A who choose to live the way they do, I don't in anyway want to encourage that. My cats have needs and vets aren't cheap so I may pay 600.00 to have dental work done on a cat, but he can't go without because I feel bad for somebody who has the freedom and ability to choose different. Tough love does help to teach they can and must change if they want their life to change. I would be mad if somebody enabled me if roles reversed, how can one learn sometimes only the hard way. We abuse them when we enable. We get a reward by feeling temporarily better and they continue to depend on others.
