The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have a long story to tell but I'll try to give the short version. I confronted my AH about the gun comments and about him driving on a suspended license. He agreed to live by my rules, which I clarified were actually boundaries but he didn't like it. I told him I'm not trying to control him but I don't trust him having a gun in the house and I don't trust him driving around when he shouldn't be since the car is in my name, too.
As we were talking I asked him about our son and if he cares about what example he sets for him. After a long diatribe about how injured he is and how the state is punishing him more than a murderer or robber, he told me that he doesn't care about ds' emotions. Long story short and after some clarification from me, he told me that he thinks that ds is too emotional and too sensitive for a 13 year old boy and that he really doesn't give a flip about it anymore. That was really hard to hear.
He also told me that he's preparing for the day for when I ask him to move out. Well, I was just about ready to say, "Why not today, jerk?" but I bit my tongue and said nothing. He justified his driving, claiming they were all 2 mile trips and that his lawyer said he could do it, blah, blah, blah.
I can tell, though, by some of the things he says that he is beating himself up terribly for the DUI but I've pretty much lost compassion for him over that one. I mean, the judge gave him a decent and fair sentence and it's not going to be the end of the world like he seems to think it will be. I asked him what I should tell our son and he said, "Tell him whatever you like. That dad's a low life criminal who has shamed his family."
I'm not very sure how to act anymore. He's playing ping pong with our son right now and they're having a conversation about the book my son is reading right now and it sounds like a normal father/son talk. Why does AH have to say such awful things when we talk and then expect me to accept it? I have no idea what the truth is anymore, UGH!
I can understand how hard this is for you .. sending lots of love and support!!
Hugs p :)
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Sending you lots of ESH, ILD. My AH is very good about playing the victim and saying that everyone is against him. He is also didn't have a problem at times with telling me that if I didn't like the way things were, "than get the f*ck out!" He would then tell me the next day that he didn't say that (he would often say this when he had or hadn't been drinking). I finally got to the point where I just knew that I needed to leave. I know you have different situation since you have a teen son. I waited until my kids were out of the house, but there was so much hurt and damage that happened in the last five years to our family. If it weren't for Al-Anon, I think I would probably still be with him and be feeling very hopeless. Al-Anon gave me the courage to change to take the steps to take care of myself and not go "down the drain" with him. He is getting worse, I am getting better. Take you want, and leave the rest.
Reading this post brought back a lot of painful memories, right down to the guns & driving with a revoked license.
I could be mistaken, but I'll share what is on my mind. I think your husband is still in big time denial about his alcoholism. When my husband was in denial, which was about 36 years of our marriage, he would come off with ridiculous statements, too. He would justify his wrong doings, like your husband is with driving the car.
It's very crazy-making if you don't detach. I finally decided to divorce my husband.
But we are reunited (kind of a complex, long story).
He has been sober for a year now. What a difference. He, himself, says he was a jerk (uh, I cleaned up his description of himself).
In my opinion, there is no word in the English language that comes close to describing what alcoholism does to a person and their loved ones.
I'm so sorry you are living through this nightmare.
__________________
You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
I guess it would be easier for me to accept if he was actively drinking but he's not. One of the things we talked about was the whole suspended license thing and he said, "What? Are you going to rat me out like you almost did the night I got the DUI?" I said, "Yeah, but I didn't." He said that ratting someone out is awful and that he'd never do that to someone. When I challenged him and said that he called the police numerous times for infractions that he witnessed or felt were committed against him, he had some cockamamie excuse as to why it was justified.
You know, our son has been to 2 funerals in the past 6 months, losing both his grandfathers. He had to travel cross country for both events, which can be quite stressful even for adults. And, he's dealing with the fact that his dad is going to jail soon. I think AH needs to cut our kid some slack. I'm just so disheartened tonight.
From my experience it sounds like he's doing good drama and will continue as long as you stay in the front row of the theater and continue to watch. Using self pity and self flaggelation is part of the act. Putting words in your mouth about how down and out he is is part of the act. When I stood back and listened from the back of the theater it became more humorous for content and then just a bad play that I was sticking around in for longer than a sane person would. My alcoholic addict wife and the addict wife before her played it over and over as long as someone was in the audience nodding their head and staying in their seat. Its okay to go do something else. Getting serious with him when he is waiting for YOU to make the decisions for him doesn't help him make decisions for himself. Its a form of enabling. You got ready to say it and didn't...practice, practice, practice...trust God.
You're so bent on saving your marriage because it is what you have invested so much of yourself into and would like verification from. Normal and usual. Sounds like commitment and perserverence and expectations...Your heart is enlarged...have some (((((hugs)))))
My AH was waiting for me to make the decision, too. In my opinion, this was so he could continue to play the victim and have a nice story to manipulate people with to get sympathy. The military man whose wife left him while he was out there working hard for the country. So, in his mind, I got all the guilt and he had permission from himself to cry into a beer mug.
I can hear the game playing and emotional manipulation in what you wrote about your H. Just because he is not actively drinking does not mean he is no longer an alcoholic. In my experience, my AH's negative behaviors got WORSE when he was dry. Without a recovery program, the tension inside and sense of impending failure must have been incredible. Once I learned to detach, I was almost relieved when he started drinking again so things would go back to our version of "normal." THAT, I knew how to deal with.
It helped me to remember that it was not my job to explain or clarify my husband's situation or disease to him. (believe me, I tried!) It's why warning labels on cigarettes and pictures of blackened lungs don't help smokers to quit smoking. He is going to feel how he is going to feel...he is going to do what he is going to do.
I was so bent on saving my marriage for a number of reasons- I was in denial, I loved him, I was scared of making it financially on my own, I loved his family, I loved our home, I believed in the vows I took before God, I was comfortable with the insanity, I had faith that hard times pass, and it wasn't always a horrible marriage. All these feelings are normal. What I personally came to realize for myself was that, if I could fast forward a few years and my AH was sober, happy, involved in AA, etc., I still would not want to be with him. The trust and respect had been destroyed. There was nothing that would make me feel okay with being with someone who had harmed me the way my AH did. And I deserved more than that from a marriage. And I did a lot of talking to my HP and eventually came to understand that He did not intend for me to suffer or sacrifice my life to live alongside an abusive drunk.
I know this is hard. Please remember to take care of YOU. Disengage. You don't have to attend every argument he invites you to. He sounds like he is in denial, full of excuses. A DUI is a big deal. People lose their lives to drunk drivers, and drunk drivers lose their jobs, freedom, and money. He doesn't get it, and you can't help him get it unfortunately.
__________________
Only to the extent that we expose ourselves over and over to annihilation can that which is indestructible be found in us. -from Pema Chödron's When Things Fall Apart
I really think Jerry and Dolly Llama has good food for thought.
I would like to share with you that my husband had 2 DUI's, 3 inpatient rehab stays and lost his job before he sobered up and stopped all his insane games.
In addition, he has a health condition that was brought on by alcohol abuse. This condition he takes pain meds for and limits his daily physical activitiy. It is a constant reminder, day & night, of what his alcoholism caused. He can't sleep through the night ever because of the pain in his feet & legs.
He didn't sober up because of anything I said or did. After our divorce in the summer of 2010, he really went off the deep end before he decided to wake up.
Now I'm not saying that your husband will have stop his insanity after similar things happen. I'm sharing with you our story in hopes that you will see that detaching is the only sane thing to do for you and your son.
Your husband is ill, expecting him to behave sanely. It is like asking him to drive a car that is wheel-deep in mud. He is stuck in alcoholism and won't admit it. All he will do until he does is spin around displaying poor behavior.
Take care of you & your son.
__________________
You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Alcoholics typically are referred to as "ego maniacs with an inferiority complex." This statement is so common in the rooms of AA - the behavior you are talking about is also called acting like "King Baby." It's some deep rooted crap and it is closer to the core of alcoholism than the actual drinking.
Over the course of my relationship with my Ex-A, I started out crying when he would pull these types of theatrics, then I started getting mad, then I started doing it back to him. In the end, we both were hurting each other and going for the jugular all the time. The love was gone. Plus, I still remember some of the awful things he said - Like my mom being a bitch, I was too helpless to make it on my own.... While I don't have animosity towards him any more - those are scars because it hurt so bad to hear those things at the time and he can't take back that he said them. Of course, I had my own part to play in it too. It was toxic. Plain and simle. That relationship had turned toxic. I don't know if yours is the same.
I have had to learn that when I am not able to interact with someone in a healthy and loving way - (and that is okay) - detachment and distance are better tools than acceptance. If I keep trying to accept things that I can't stand and that I really believe are wrong on a deep level, I live in a state of resentment all the time. I can't afford to live like that today.
I also knew if we were meant to be together, our higher powers could see to that as well, even if we split up or divorced for the time being. That thought helped ease the decision.
I made a list of all the jacked up stuff that happened during the marriage. I also made a list of what I would miss if we split. And list of what I wouldn't miss. That helped clarify things.
Love pinkchip's share...boy, can I relate as well. King Baby...yep. And Gail, the wheels stuck in mud....yep to that as well. Great analogy. I'm gonna marry that one with jerry's and see AH as in a one-man play as a driver stuck wheel-deep in mud. haha. Sounds like a crappy play. Hope the theater offers refunds.
__________________
Only to the extent that we expose ourselves over and over to annihilation can that which is indestructible be found in us. -from Pema Chödron's When Things Fall Apart
Wow, I love the theater analogy and what everyone else shared here. My problem is that my AH lives at home 24/7. We are all around eachother so much and it's so hard to sit in the back of the theater when it's always in my face and I sit so close to the screen. I am planning on a few trips this summer and hoping to get away for extended weekends for tennis. I also have so much guilt because of the resentment I feel and I know it's unhealthy but I still know it's there. It's just so hard to detach when he's right around the corner from me all day long. I think we both have serious codependency issues and I have to stop focusing on him but it's like the drama keeps sucking me back in. I mean, yesterday we were having a conversation about guns and suicide. Umm, that is NOT a normal conversation for a married couple to have.
We don't talk about dreams, we don't talk about retirement, etc. The only thing he likes to talk about is what's on FoxNews and how we are lacking in anything for our future. If I mention retirement I've opened a can of worms because he is so negative about his financial future. It's so draining to even hold a conversation with him because of his negativity and I'm emotionally drained most of the time. Oh, and now I feel paranoid about all his gun stuff and wondering if he's still planning on getting a gun but doing it behind my back? I want to scream "Stop the movie, I need to exit the theater!!"
Only you will know when it's time to be done. It's not on anyone else's time. It took me 15 years of marraige to get away from crazyville. People wanted me to exit way sooner but I wasn't ready.
Then one day - I had a moment of clarity - a moment where all of it came together and made sense and I knew. But there is no one who could have gotten me there until I was ready. And I don't regret trying to stay - I do sometimes feel sad for the extended loss of me but the reality is, I lost myself by my own accord and at that time didn't know how to get me back.
But this is your story and maybe you won't have to be "done" ever. However if you do - you'll get there on your time. Big hugs though you sound clear and strong though living with chaos. I didn't even have that so you are way ahead of where I was emotionally. Hugs!
In the enmeshed relationship I had with the ex A I was with him all the time. I was so obessed. He became the moon I revolved around. When I started putting the focus on myself, the conversations about suicide, poor me, lying, cover ups and more stopped to a large extent.
For me to do that I had to work really hard on taking the entire focus off him. I was so over involved in his life and his needs. He certainly was never concerned about mine.
In between your extended weekend with tennis, can you find other reasons to be away from the drama?
24/7! You have a challedge on your hands. Perhaps take the focus on what is and let your imagination run wild. Hmmm, what can I do besides viewing the play? Besides trying to reason with the main actor?
It is quite difficult accepting what is. I find myself struggle with it too. But with practice, practice & more practice it gets easier. Promise.
Be patient with yourself.
__________________
You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Gail, we have passes to the monster water park that's close by as do some of my son's friends. I can go there and read a book while he runs around with his buddies for hours on end. He also will be playing tennis with a pro, taking lessons, hitting with other friends, and possibly going to a summer AM tennis camp for a few weeks too.
I have tennis with my friends on Tuesday AMs. It really is hard, he's sitting in the family room watching TV right now. I guess he's done with work and it's not even 2 PM. I'm just fascinated that he makes as much money as he does but I'm grateful too, as his income allows us to have the lifestyle we have today. Of course, that's part of the problem; I am very used to my cushy lifestyle and I am having trouble separating myself from it.
I think I get what Gail is saying .. you have to live your life on life's terms. Now see .. water park .. I vote for throwing it all to the wind and sliding down some of those slides with your kid and his friend!! Forget about everything .. just let go. It's good for our kids to see us acting silly and having fun. It lets them know that we can cut loose and we should. Leave recovery book in the room and just go have some down right old fashion smile till your face hurts FUN!!!
My kids have been all a buzz and twitter with what their mother has been up to after all I'm 103 according to my youngest and the idea that I would play with them in a pool just tickles them pink. Plus I have a water balloon fight planned and they have NO idea .. so I will be hitting them good on Sunday afternoon .. muuuhhhaawwww (that was the best evil laugh I've got .. lol). I like it when things are stacked in my favor .. LOL! Hee hee .. that is what this summer is about ALL of the fun we can have as little cost as possible reminding them that regardless of what their world is doing they are kids!!
Just have some FUN .. stupid silly FUN!! Remember doing that as a kid because my memories are few and far between growing up in the house I did. I thought darn it .. I'm going to do that this summer and to heck with what anyone else thinks because after all it's none of my business what other people think
Hugs P :)
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Wow, I love the theater analogy and what everyone else shared here. My problem is that my AH lives at home 24/7. We are all around eachother so much and it's so hard to sit in the back of the theater when it's always in my face and I sit so close to the screen.
ILD, I can't even imagine how much harder this makes things for you. One of the things that has preserved my sanity over the last year is the fact that I work normal daytime hours, and my AH works second shift. As such, we rarely see each other for more than 10 minutes a day during the week. I'm glad you have some plans in place for the summer--enjoy them, and I hope this issue gets easier for you.
Pinkchip shared something that really hit home with me. I had to read it 3 times since yesterday but it's really making sense to me. He said that sometimes detachment and distance are better tools than acceptance for him because accepting things that he believed were wrong just made him more resentful. I had that AHA! moment where I realized that really is what my problem is. Every time AH wrongs society or wrongs the terms of his sentence, I get resentful mainly because I can't accept lawlessness and the justification of such an act just makes me more enraged. It's one thing to lie about how much you've had to drink, it's totally another to go out and break the law and then justify or lie about it. To me, the insanity of it becomes unacceptable and I'm sitting here trying to force myself to accept a situation that, in my mind, isn't acceptable to begin with.
I love those lightbulb moments when things come together. Now, I have to come up with a plan as to how to detach and keep my sanity. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I am planning a few trips over the summer for my son's tennis tournaments and training so that should get me out of the house a bit for overnight stuff. Last summer I had a great time, we were gone about 3 weeks total and it was a very needed break for us both. AH was severely depressed and I needed a breather from him. So, this summer will hopefully have a light at the end of the tunnel.
I know I was attached to the home, the lifestyle (what there was of it) and the auro of having a relationship. Over time that got so bad that I was willing to let go.
Like you I was infuriated by the now ex A's actions. He had no problems flouting the law but anything and everything I did was up for severe scrutiny. I was aware of his every action, his meals, his friends, his life and hardly aware of my own.
I did manage to find moments of detachment here and there but it was really only when I was working a program that I stated to make headway. I had to start to look at how I was neglecting myself in my obsession with him.
Pinkchip, I love this: "I have had to learn that when I am not able to interact with someone in a healthy and loving way - (and that is okay) - detachment and distance are better tools than acceptance. If I keep trying to accept things that I can't stand and that I really believe are wrong on a deep level, I live in a state of resentment all the time. I can't afford to live like that today. " I am trying to accept the things i cannot change but I SO resent having to do so. I feel like the only way to stay in my relationship is to detach so much that i just don't are anymore, and then what's the point of staying in the relationship? My BF is clean and sober...he was for 5 years (our whole relationship) and then relapsed very briefly. He's not using/drinking but he's not working his program either....too ashamed to go back now that his clean time is blown. Anyway, he objected to my request that he not go to a bar to see a band while I was out of town last weekend. He is a musician, so he regularly plays in bars. He has handled it very well for years, but now that he lost his clean time, we sometimes have discussions where he says he thinks he can drink because he's older now and could handle it. I todl him if he want to try out that little experiment, to go get his own apartment and let me know how it's working for him. He think it is RIDICULOUS for me to ask for one weekend away with a girlfriend with him staying home so I wouldn't have to be anxious about it, and I think it's a totally reasonable request since he relapsed on pills only 4 months ago and also had a beer only 2 months ago. I tried to explain that it would just give me peace of mind, but he didn't care at all about my feelings and said it was absurb for me to even ask that of him. Meanwhile, he didn't go out, but he clearly resented it and said if I asked that again in the future, we would have problems. He is clean, sober, and fine and has no desire to drink/use. I know I can't control him, and my request wasn't really about that. I just didn't want to have to WORRY for one freakin' weekend while i was away. So now I am struggling with how to deal with the fact that he is basically telling me he doesn't care enought about my feelings/stress level to stay home (even though he said he doesn't really want to go out without me...just wants to know he has that option). I am trying so hard to detach but am very lost on the "with love" part. Right now I'm just angry and very sad that he totally invalidates my feelings and very valid concerns. It's become a power struggle...he refuses to be "pussywhipped." I don't even want to spend time with him or let him kisas me or anything. How can I accept that his life is his concern and my life is my concern, focus on me, and not be resentful about what I have to accept (ie, he is selfish and while I have to deal with all his issues, he refuses to help me with mine (codependency/insecurity). Maybe he IS helping me by refusing to allow me to control him. I am trying hard to find the lesson. I so much want to get better and stop obsessing, but am finding it hard to detach and still love him. I go to CODA meetings and am going to start going to Al-Anon meetings too. Thanks for any ESH about acceptance without resentment.
Oh boy. He's going to drink or he's not. Whether he goes to a bar or not. It's out of your control.
You have every right as a grown human being to decide how to spend your time and weekends. You do not need his permission or blessing.
You wrote, "He think it is RIDICULOUS for me to ask for one weekend away with a girlfriend with him staying home so I wouldn't have to be anxious about it, and I think it's a totally reasonable request since he relapsed on pills only 4 months ago and also had a beer only 2 months ago."
Your anxiety is up to you, not him. Sounds like you're giving him a lot of power and responsibility over your state of mind. Even if he promised to stay home, would you still be anxious, feel like you needed to check up on him, make sure he was home, call to see if his voice was slurred, maybe he bought some beer and brought it home, etc?
Acceptance for me meant- I am with an addict. Addicts, well mine anyway, loved to pick fights with me and say I was "keeping his d!ck in a box" (akin to the pu$ywhipping comment yours gave), and use all of this drama as an excuse to engage in his drinking. He would storm out of the house and go to a bar. And I would sit at home and worry and cry. Once I understood how I was playing into this dynamic, I stopped fighting and started tending to my own emotional garden and life. He would storm out to a bar after a fight, and I would go do something fun for ME or go to a meeting, call a friend, etc. Anything but worry about his disease. He wasn't worried about it, so why should I turn myself inside out worrying FOR him?
Acceptance without resentment- I am with an addict. Addicts do crazy things. Addicts USE. Addicts lie. Addicts pick fights. Addicts are lost inside. Arguing with them is like trying to keep a cat off the furniture...you will never win. Well, the only way to win is to not even play the game.
You wrote, "I feel like the only way to stay in my relationship is to detach so much that i just don't [c]are anymore, and then what's the point of staying in the relationship?" Detaching doesn't mean not caring. To me, it means not letting another's bad weather affect your ecosystem. I still care about my AH, very much. But I have to care about him from a distance because he is sick. But, like you allude, I found that because my AH's disease was such a huge part of his life, when I detached from it, we had nothing in common anymore. What a gift to realize a relationship is bound only by sickness....I knew I had other choices and could decide to live my life in a more fulfilling way.
-- Edited by Dolly Llama on Saturday 26th of May 2012 02:02:22 PM
__________________
Only to the extent that we expose ourselves over and over to annihilation can that which is indestructible be found in us. -from Pema Chödron's When Things Fall Apart
