The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Deep down...okay maybe not even that deep...I know you're absolutely right.
But boy, that wasn't what I wanted to hear!
There is nothing good there for me. That is why I left. He has nothing to offer me...he is an addict.
I do recognize my craving for a phone call is just like the justifications an alcoholic would give for just one beer. How funny. In a way.
He would either respond with sadness and loneliness...to which I would open up my sadness and loneliness...and there we are again in a sick dance of need without any relief.
Or he would respond with his happiness and veneer of content...to which I would feel gut punched at the illusion that I had lost something I needed.
I am in need. I need some real support. I will be okay in the end, I know this. The thing I think is bringing this urge up...I am about to ship off for military training. I am also without a permanent home and will be storing my car and belongings while I am away. This will be a strange year. A few months in my home city, a few months away, rinse and repeat. Most of this schedule is unknown at this time...welcome back to the military. They will give me my training dates when they give them to me sort of thing.
I am finding this very hard to plan around. Do I sign a lease for an apartment? And then be told I will be gone for 6 months? Risk finding safe and decent temporary month-to-month type of things? Come home to what...a storage unit and a hotel reservation? How will I even get to where I need to go to be processed out to training without my car? Tons of what ifs. Etc.
And I think back to all the times he deployed and I took care of everything. The utilities got paid, no problem. The car cover got re-adjusted if the wind blew it askew. Etc.
I don't have that person to take care of the homefront for me, and it's totally freaking me out a little bit. Maybe a lot.
I don't want him to be that person for me...that's not what this is about, literally. I know I would not even trust his support if he offered it...and I would resent myself for accepting his help, being indebted to him in any way after the way he treated me and put me in unsafe situations so many times. But I think yes, I am seeking that feeling of rock solid support. To have the blessing of going into training without a worry back home.
Well, that is not my situation and I will do the best I can. To get back in touch with him, even for so-called friendly reasons, would be going back to that hot stove. It's STILL hot. I know this.
I am also mourning the loss of what he could have been. The wonderful man and life that this disease took from the world. It is a sadness and tragedy I don't think I will ever get over.
-- Edited by Dolly Llama on Saturday 19th of May 2012 02:46:41 AM
__________________
Only to the extent that we expose ourselves over and over to annihilation can that which is indestructible be found in us. -from Pema Chödron's When Things Fall Apart
It's been 3 months since I last saw my AH, 2 months since we agreed to file for divorce and had any sort of email exchange about anything except the divorce stuff.
I have been doing really well, minding my own business and going after my goals.
Lately I've been thinking about my AH. Not in a needy way. I feel like I want to have a chat or coffee with him. I'm looking into my intentions here. I definitely don't want him back. I definitely don't care if he is drinking or sober or in AA. (I mean, I wish for his sake he is working a program, but it's not my business or concern.) I don't miss the marriage or living with him or being in a relationship with him...but I do miss *him*, the him that is funny and colorful.
It would be nice to catch up, is all. I wonder if I am ready for that, if talking to him or seeing him would make me feel icky or sad or lonesome. I don't know if he would be ready or willing, but this post is to work out my feelings about it.
I don't want to put myself in that position if I am not ready to handle seeing him again. I don't want to backslide or get sucked back into feeling sorry for him, focused on him, charmed by him.
I don't think I would. But do I really know?
I like to think we could be, well not quite friends, but friendly. He is the only thing like family I have out here. Even that's not quite right....I don't want anything from him. I do hope he is happy. Even if he is still drinking (and he probably is). Before we became spouses, I enjoyed him very much as a friend. But...I also know we can't erase history.
What's the potential for disaster if we did have a chat or meet for coffee? Any thoughts on this? Bad idea? Maybe sit with it a bit longer?
__________________
Only to the extent that we expose ourselves over and over to annihilation can that which is indestructible be found in us. -from Pema Chödron's When Things Fall Apart
The times I've done this have always turned out emotionally tumultuous for me.
I notice from what you say about "He is the only thing like family I have out here" that you may be feeling a bit isolated or in need of some closer friendships.
It is hard as heck, but the times I've turned to my A ex when I've felt like that, I realized later that the need for connection was very genuine but that going to him for that connection was moving backward rather than forward.
I always hoped it would end with some kind of friendly detachment in which I felt in touch but not needy or upset. What happened was one of two things. Either he was unpleasant to be around, which brought all the old pain back. Or he was pleasant and great, which brought all the old pain back -- the craving for a real relationship, which he could never have because his real relationship was with his addiction.
Sometimes I stay away from him minute by minute, like an alcoholic staying away from the bottle. But I know that getting back in touch is like an alcoholic walking into a bar. There's that feeling of, "This time I bet I can handle it and just get what I want and not get sucked into the insanity."
Do I wish I had what I wanted from him? So much. Do I feel more peaceful not having any contact? A million times yes. That's my experience.
It's okay to love an alcoholic. We are all one anyway, in my opinion, That's why we're still able to get glimpses of them as beautiful human beings, as we all are, all created "perfectly imperfect" from the same source.
My AH and I are divorced. And I still love him very much as a human being and as the father of my amazing children. I am so happy they have some of his personality. When we are together, I am reminded of why we had to be apart, it affirms my decision. But I enjoy texting him a happy birthday message, and merry christmas, etc, etc.... I've also emailed him when I felt worried about his mother and I supported him at the time of his father's death. Today, it's not so much about what I can GET from him anymore, I already have everything I need when I stay in contact with Higher power. It's more about what I might be able to offer, I still care about him. It feels good to choose love, the goal is be free from fear. Not a day goes by that I don't send him prayers, love and light.
If you choose to see him, good for you. You may learn a lot about YOU, that's what this journey is all about. There is no "wrong" decision, my friend.
-- Edited by glad lee on Saturday 19th of May 2012 01:49:38 PM
__________________
The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
Jeannie's post brings up another facet -- when we keep our attention turned to them, we use up time and attention that could be used making more connections and widening our support network. Dolly, it sounds as if you're in a specially tough transition -- no wonder your subconscious is saying, "Need more support here!" And friends and support don't happen overnight, sadly. But the little bits of time and energy add up. Every piece of energy directed toward the old connections means less toward new connections. This is hard for me because I'm shy with new people and so the new connections aren't automatically rewarding. But down the line putting our energy in the future pays off. Hugs.
-- Edited by Mattie on Saturday 19th of May 2012 12:18:47 PM
I'm sure that what you are going through is bringing the urge up as you put it. I think you said it best when you said you are in "need of some real support". I can completely identify with that statement. When it's you who is always the go to gal and you who took care of everything then it's reasonable to want that in return. Especially when life feels so completely chaotic. Like you say it will all work out. It's completely normal what you want to do, it's just probably not healthy.
Seeing him and wanting him to be the same fun colorful guy .. I don't know .. it's kind of like trying to pet a porcupine backwards .. kwim? Looks like it would be fun in one way what does that fur feel like .. however knowing it could probably hurt me a lot more than it needs to.
That feeling of mourning the guy that should be there .. I don't think that ever really goes away even as we get healthier. Again I think it's pretty normal to want to see them again. I really think it's important to take a look at what is best for you, take all of the chaos out and would you still feel the same way right this min?
Hugs P :)
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
My AHsober and I have been separated for seven years - he moved out and he wants a divorce. We have three grown sons and we both have large families and lots of history together. At first we would come together about finances, kids, events, etc. He said let's be friends then said no we can't be friends. I was very in love/love addicted to him. Now, I don't like him anymore but I still love him very much. For me it is like Mattie says, it either brings up old uncomfortable emotions or the old "him" that I love but can't have a relationship with. I sit here this morning by myself. My AHsober, my three sons, my two grandchildren, and others are together this weekend for my grandaughter's game. I really wasn't invited unless I forced the issue. As long he isn't in recovery or we don't have a some common ground, our meetings will always be disappointing. Nothing changes if nothing changes.
I come to this board when I have a sinking spell. I have to learn to look for support from other sources because really his disease drives the show.
I came on here to make my own post, and then read yours. Even after being away from my ex abf for almost a year, after he was led out of our home in handcuffs after an assault that left me with 3 broken ribs, there are times I still have the urge to pick up the phone and hear his voice, to talk to him, to see if he is working on his sobriety. I, too, mourn for what could have been, should have been, but never was. I held out hope, waited, watched, began working my own program, for 9yrs for that wonderful man to surface, he never did. Yet again, when something good, bad, indifferent was going on in my life, he had always been who I turned to. Over the course of time, I had isolated myself from my friends and family due to the shame I felt over him. Ultimately, he became the only one I could go to. Hope is one of the most painful words I know, but it was my guiding force for so long. When his disease consumed him to the point that he became so violent that I feared for my life, I had to let go of hope, for him, for us, but never for me. It's hard trying to make sense of feelings even in a functional relationship, but when you've been in a relationship with an addict, it's even harder. Deep down inside yourself, you know the answers to your questions. You don't need anyone's permission to do and say what you feel is best for yourself, but try to remember what IS best for you. I had to stand in front of a courtroom and point out to all there, this man whom I once had so much love and hope for, as my attacker, my abuser. Did that hurt, absolutely. Was it painful to see so much fear in his eyes, wondering if he was going to leave the courtroom a free man, yes it was. Feelings don't go away over night, and I believe for many of us involved in relationships with addicts, our feelings are exponentially greater, or heightened. I have never mourned the loss of any one the way I have and probably always will continue to, mourn the loss of him. He wa found not guilty of the assault, and yes, that bothers me to no end, for I feel failed, but I know he has to live with himself every day, and he knows what he has done. My last hope for him is that he realizes that he has truly been given a second chance and will make it count for him...my reality is that he has now been given another opportunity to hurt someone else. But even after all that, I dont know that if he called me and wanted to "catch up", that I could say no...even though I know where it would get me.
seeking peace, jeannie
__________________
if you bring forth what is within you, what is within you will save you
I am friends with my Ex-A now. The fact that he is stuck in much the same place as when I was with him is not so painful now and that is because I spend so much time working on me that its just crystal clear how much better my life is and how his is not. Nonetheless, we spent 7 years together and I will always care for him. I catch up with him from time to time and hear the same nutty ideas and "poor me" thinking. It's okay though. He's not my problem. It took over a year and a half after breaking up to be that detached and it was because it took that long for me to be comfortable in my new identity.
I'm going through a similar situation with my ex AW.
The only advice I can give you is to think about contacting your AH with your head, not your heart.
Is it reasonable and rational to contact him at this time? I think you might still feelings for him.
From my personal experience is that if you lay your heart on the line to an A, it will be trampled.
I know the longing and pain you might be feeling, but please think rationally for yourself before you let your emotions lead you to a place where you are worse off than you are now.
I've read all your replies and really, really appreciate them.
I truly don't have feelings for him anymore...they went long before we filed for divorce. I'm in no way seeking to restore a relationship with him. And there is nothing he could offer me, and no place in my new life for him. Just wondering how he's doing. Believe me, I'm not worrying about him or giving my energy over...this whole question of call/do not call has shown me how much I really have grown. I am being patient and quiet with myself, uncovering what this urge means to ME instead of just following the impulse and HAVING to interact with him. This has really been a gift and I am thankful for the test.
I know this man and I understand that he isn't capable of a breezy, friendly hey-how-are-ya-doing chat or even email once every few months. Well, he's not capable of that now. There will always be a subtext or an agenda or attempt to manipulate me for a selfish reason, or at least I would be on guard for that sort of thing, and not willing to reveal too much about my new self and life. He is sick.
It's closer to what glad lee wrote. I do feel detached and needless as far as he is concerned. But I do wish to send him love and in a arm's length sort of way let him know I am thinking of him and hope he is well. Just because that is what is on my heart. My new relationship with my in-laws is like this and it's good. We're not all up in each other's grills, talking emotional stuff, etc. Just simple cards on holidays, and occasional email if there is happy news to share.
I've decided against seeing him for coffee, etc. In-person would be too much for me. A phone call would probably be pushing it right now, too. There's no reason why I can't send an email if I want to, with no expectation of a response, just to say hi and I hope you are well.
Maybe I will just sit with this for awhile longer.
__________________
Only to the extent that we expose ourselves over and over to annihilation can that which is indestructible be found in us. -from Pema Chödron's When Things Fall Apart
The fact that this has come up in a period when you're just about to deploy, and you're realizing that your support system isn't what you'd like it to be, are good things to think about, as you've mentioned.
I often used to have an overwhelming urge to contact my ex. I decided that I would wait to do it until I was in another relationship. That way my mind couldn't start playing "gotcha!" with me and open up that Pandora's box of focusing on what I wanted but never got, etc... It would make it seem more in the past if I were in another relationship.
This worked really well until something reminded me of him so strongly that I succumbed. Long story short, my emotions were stronger than I thought. Ouch! Now I'm back to the first resolution again.
Awareness is so important. It's clear that you've got that. Hugs.
A friend posted this on her Facebook today- sometimes, you have to give up on people...not because you don't care, but because they don't.
If the decision to divorce my AH could be summed up in one sentence, that would be it. And I haven't given up on *him* in that I know recovery is possible for him, whether he is 35 or 85...but gave up on the marriage, you see.
I sent him a text yesterday. "Just a friendly hi to see how you're doing." He didn't respond.
And I felt...
RELIEVED.
-- Edited by Dolly Llama on Sunday 20th of May 2012 01:39:22 PM
__________________
Only to the extent that we expose ourselves over and over to annihilation can that which is indestructible be found in us. -from Pema Chödron's When Things Fall Apart
Dolly wrote: I don't want to backslide or get sucked back into feeling sorry for him, focused on him, charmed by him.
Dolly.... I've heard people say in our program, when in doubt, don't. I have been where you are in a divorce with someone active in his disease. This is just my experience so please take what you like and leave the rest. Your situation/feelings are entirely yours.
When I was divorcing, I tried to engage with the exah. I wanted it all to be nice because we had spent years together and been through a lot with one another. I wanted to part as friends. I wanted to be friends with someone who had abandoned me time and time again through his disease. I kept looking for validation from his disease. I was in denial that it was over. I couldn't completely accept it. Worse yet, I could rationalize all I wanted that we just couldn't go on together but in truth, I had the "if onlies."
It took my divorce attorney to remind me that divorcing is not emotional. It's business. Going forward, I was told no personal contact with the husband. I was told that if I wanted the best outcome, I needed to stop interfering with the job I was paying him to do. Looking back I realize I was also interfering with my higher power's will for me.
After that, when I felt the urge to contact the my soon to be ex, I called my sponsor instead or went to a meeting and for coffee with Alanons afterwards. I can remember a few verbal exchanges with the ex in court. His thinking was irrational, his words manipulative. Those times were extremely difficult for me emotionally after leaving court. I had no choice but to listen to those rantings then but I'm glad I stopped willingly giving away my serenity by trying to meet/talk with him to get something from him he wasn't able to give to me.
The Serenity Prayer helped too. Hugs. TT
__________________
Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
I think that says it all right there .. sending you lots of love and support.
Hugs P :)
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Yes. Sending the text got me so much closer to truly letting go completely.
I think I am almost ready to do something with my wedding band. I'm thinking the Pacific Ocean.
__________________
Only to the extent that we expose ourselves over and over to annihilation can that which is indestructible be found in us. -from Pema Chödron's When Things Fall Apart
It's funny you say that, I moved mine from my finger to my neck in the form of a necklace. I've since removed it and it's sitting in the bathroom drawer. My son always said as long as I wore the ring I "belonged" to daddy .. LOL. I get a funny look from him when I go into that drawer .. I think he's starting to get it.
I'm ok now with letting go further. It just is one step at a time.
Hugs P :)
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
