Dating a recovering alcoholic and sex addict. I have some questions. - Al-Anon Family Group

Dolly Llama · Senior Member

Dating a recovering alcoholic and sex addict. I have some questions.

Althecat · Newbie

Yes, a valid observation. I am not happy with it, but I also don't have a basis for comparison. At what point is helping some one, enabling, or being trampled on?

I am also looking to hear about other peoples experiences with this situation and perhaps get some objective feed back on what dating some one in recovery is like. Is this just the norm?

-- Edited by Althecat on Tuesday 15th of May 2012 02:08:30 PM

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

You're not "wrong" my friend. But you might want to ask yourself, like I did, what is keeping YOU in a bizarre twilight zone relationship with a selfish man you're not even committed to yet?

My best suggestion is for you to make some COSA meetings, for me that was a real eye-opener. Knowledge is power and it really helped me understand sex addiction and what I was involved with, with this man.

The other thing that helped me, was learning all I could about addiction in general. Addictive personalities often substitute what they use, and the mentality is, if something is a good thing, MORE is even better. More. Always more.

My understanding about body-building is from having an athlete in the family, it naturally boosts testosterone levels, so this would be a red flag to me.

Take what you like, my friend. And take care of YOU!

-- Edited by glad lee on Tuesday 15th of May 2012 04:41:27 PM

Althecat · Newbie

I started dating this great guy a while back, about 6 months I guess. At first he was great; open, thoughtful, physical, affectionate. Slowly his behavior has devolved into something very selfish. Basically with out going into the details, if it suits him he will do it with little or no thought of my needs. He has been a recovering alcoholic and sex addict for about 15 years.

I think am starting to feel a bit resentful of his AA and SAA. I know this is perhaps selfish on my part but this is where the questions come up.......

It feels a lot of the time like he uses his involvement in SAA and AA as a pass for things. We dont see each other much, he travels, and I would like to spend some time with him before he heads out again for two weeks, he is going to an SAA meeting tonight instead of spending time with me...then it is home to bed and no time for us to see each other. It might look like I am whining....I can see that. BUT...when I look at some of the other selfish behavior I am left to wonder, is this more of the same?

The question is this.....How much priority should an SAA meeting have in ones life ? Should it trump a relationship?

If your partner comes to you and says, Hey. I am lonely can we spend some time together? Is the appropriate response, nope, I want to go to my meeting. I feel a little like the meeting is being used as a punishment for me asking for something. In the past he has said that the SAA meetings encouraged him to not skip a relationship in favour of a meeting.

There was an incident about a month a go when he blamed me for causing a problem in his business. He deals with travel and did not get back to a client in time, the client booked a trip with another company. We were having discussions about the relationship and he blamed me for the client going else where. I asked him to explain that to me....apparently he was spending too much time with me and neglecting his business. First off, we were not spending that much time together. I wasnt making him take 3 hour breaks mid day to go shopping. Secondly, I know for a fact he spends a fair bit of time looking at porn and images mid work day. I have given my blessing for the porn and images as I do it my self. I pointed out that if you waste two hours looking at porn every day instead of replying to clients, its likely that is more the problem than spending a few hours with your partner after work is done. Can a person who has, in the past, had issues with online activity view porn and related images safely? Isnt one of the signs of an issue that it impacts your work?

The other question relates to AA and recovery. He NEVER drinks. EVER. No relapses, nothing. However, he has demonstrated that he has a selfish personality and self admittedly has an addictive personality.

He has an obsession with body building and getting huge. He takes weekly injections of testosterone (steroids) because he has a low testosterone level naturally, it is therapeutic ( I am skeptical about the therapeutic dose because some of his friends also have the same problem.) the issue I have is he also stacks his therapeutic injection with other steroids so he can gain mass, things his doctor didn't prescribe. He has dealers for the non prescription stuff, there is a layer of secrecy and intrigue around the non prescription stuff that makes me un comfortable. I have tried to ask him questions about it, he insists that the additional injections are not a problem and is has no relationship to his addictive personality. Recently his blood pressure has been going up and up. We went to get it looked at, the person doing the test asked him point blank if he was taking any drugs that might cause high blood pressure. The injections he is doing absolutely cause high blood pressure. He lied to the person doing the test...this was a huge red light for me. He has roid rages where he flies off the handle and yells at me for no reason, he is verbally abusive some times.....All this sounds like being in a relationship with an alcoholic. My question is this....Has he swapped booze for roids? Can you be clean and sober while abusing your medication?

My last question is this....

Can you go to all the meetings and not drink but still not be recovered? Is there non drinking alcoholic behavior?

Thanks for making it this far. I honestly don't know what to do. I feel like I am in some kind of bizarre twilight zone relationship. I dont want to write him off if I am the one with the issue. PLEASE, if I am in the wrong...say so.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

hi, it is true, we need to focus on us and what we want, not them. However we mature into learning how to do that.

So I am going to do my best to answer your questions.

The A or addict needs to go to meetings when they need to or choose to. They have a disease. If we love an A, we accept what they do as far as their recovery. It is totally their business, not ours. We would not tell someone with another disease not to take their meds or not exercise. (which is vital to do for some diseases)

We cannot expect anyone to fill our needs but ourselves. It seems that loving an A does put us in a position to not get certain things met. Its part of the symptoms of the A, they may be selfish, always put themselves first, lie, manipulate etc.

I learned to accept what he gave, then learned to do other things like care for my horses or whatever. I fillled my life.

His choosing to look at porn is none of our business. If it bothers him he has to get himself help.

It is a red flag if he is abusing any type of med. Again his business.

No a person is not clean and sober if they are abusing other things.

When one is in true recovery it is like a guide or a map on learning how to live in a good moral way, how to be ok with being truthful even if it hurts someone, its looking and caring about others. They do not think like a non A. We do not think like them. AA helps them to stay on their path of recovery.

An A can be in recovery, just sober, or using all their life. They cannot be cured.

Yes they can go to aa or whatever and not be on their recovery program. Some A's are even worse when they stop drinking.

Hon addiction is a disease. It has many symptoms, abusing any substance alcohol or heroinetc, being selfish, immoral, lieing, manipulation, so many more.

When they just don't drink or use other drugs they are still A with all those other symptoms. They may be white knuckling to stay sober which makes them uptight, unreasonalbe, have anger issues, blaming others etc.

This man is very sick. Very sick.

What is a better question is,"What is making me choose to be with a man who blames me, does not care about my needs, treats me badly, and I am so unhappy with the relationship?" Believe me that is not love.

As others have shared, we must stop looking at them and look at ourselves. Their disease pulls us in and makes us sick.

We enable when we do anything for them that they can do for themselves.

We either learn Al anon skill and use them to stay with them, or we keep it the same

or we let them go.

Its not fair to him to want to change him. Everyone has the right to be who they are. Including YOU.

In good relationships, the other mate WANTS to do for the other. They look for things to do for them, they want to be with them.

I have been alone many years in my life. Most out of choice. One time I wanted to grow up and had two babies to raise. I learned to be happy with me. I married in 99 my now ex AH. he was very much into AA and working so hard at recovery. was a beautiful thing to see. then he had a brain surgery that left him damaged, he relapsed and is a monster.

I chose to cut it off 100% after I felt I did all I could.

I really invite you to learn about YOU. Who you are, what you want.

Been alone again many years, would LOVE to remarry. But I am ok with my aloness. Sometimes its hard but sometimes its hard being married.

I do like me, I know how to take care of myself thru the lonelies. I know if I meet someone, I have lots to give and will take my time to know him. I would not put up with any bs even one time. I would be gone. I mean too much to me and my HP to put up with it!

Why would I want someone who does not value me and hurts me? NO thank you.

sending you hugs, and hope you focus on YOU. love,debilyn

AStrongerMe · ~*Service Worker*~

I can only answer one part of your writing and only from my perspective. As far as "meetings/needs trumping the relationship" - it's drilled into them that if they are to remain sober, working the program comes first.

I was in a relationship where we competed and argued and didn't ever see eye to eye. It was very immature. I got out, worked on me - single - for 5 years because I knew it wasn't all just him.

Now I'm in a relationship with a recovering A. He works to attend one meeting a day. I have always told him that I'm ok with that being first. I'm learning that in more mature relationships, it's not a competition of "who does more for who". It's a giving relationship of allowing the other person to be separate from me, and then we come together as a couple which is another part of the relationship. Because I've never considered myself in competition with his meetings, he feels comfortable to do those at his pace and he often works them around my schedule. I've never asked him to do this, but we have come into this relationship with the clear goal of being independent and not asking the other person to change who they are or what they want. So I knew he had this issue and he needs to put his recovery first and I either had to accept that or walk away. It took me 2 months to decide actually because I didn't want to have to make a choice like that on the fly.

My new addiction is a horse I lease - and even though it often takes away from the precious time we get alone (I have 3 kids at home about 65% of the time) he knows its something that I need to do for myself and he supports it. On occasion he comes out to ride with me, on occasion he invites me to a meeting and I go. But we are separate people.

As for the red flags of behavior. I can't tell you how to interpret any of that. I can tell you that in my life, 100% of the time I was "concerned" about something, I was right. What did I choose to do about that? Depended on the person and the issue but learning to set boundaries is what I'm doing with it now. For example my RBF knows that if he drinks he is not allowed near me. He accepts that. The hard part about focusing on what we want is learning how to do it. What we want isn't "what we don't want them to do". It's "what we want our life to be right now". If my ex were to relapse again, I would focus on what I want. I want sober people in my house and around me. If you aren't then you need to go away and make a decision. I won't tell him not to drink and I won't try to help him. He's got to do it all by himself.

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Athecat,

You have gotten such good answers to your first post.
I'm responding to the second:
You say you aren't happy with it but you don't have a basis for comparison.
I think you could compare how you are being treated with how you want to be treated in a relationship, because isn't that what's pertinent?
You wanted other people's experiences in this situation. I can't tell you anything about being in a relationship with a person with all of those addctions.
I was in a relationship with an alcoholic, and neither of us realized he was one, and he wasn't in recovery. He. spent a lot of time with me and he
treated me very well for those first six months.
You want to know if this is the norm. I think I would be asking myself if that was good enough for me, even if it were the norm.
I think that it may be typical for a steroid abuser to be full of rage--I have heard so.
And you didn't ask, but it seems to me that he may be going to meetings and not drinking, and good for him on those; however, I would think that 15 years
into recovery and really working it, he'd be in a different place.

Good luck,
Temple

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Athecat - thank you for sharing with us.

I would just like to ask if you've gotten to any Al-Anon meetings? A lot of answers to your questions come up in the meeting rooms.

In my own experience in listening to other Al-Anon member share, yes, their spouse's AA meetings are a priority, just as for us Al-Anons, our Al-Anon meetings take priority. For me, it's either let me get to my meetings or you may be spending time with someone who's going to get a bit crazy because she's not getting that regular centering.

Yes, there are plenty of A's who attend AA and still actively drink.

Yes, addictions can get switched. My mother, an A, ended up switching her addiction from alcohol to food.

Yes, there is also non-drinking alcoholic behavior. Drinking is but a symptom of the disease. The true disease is one of lack of spiritual and emotional health and maturity. It's not the drinking that's the true issue... it's the thinking.

Hope this helped. I encourage you to get to some Al-Anon meetings.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

People in AA recover to varying degrees. Some do better with controlling replacement addictions than others. I have seen people in AA with similar behavior going on with body building and taking steroids and or testoserone. Most folks do not think that is working a good program but the motto is "to thine own self be true." Similarly, not everyone recovers to the point of being able to have a truly meaningful and fully reciprocal mature intimate relationship. I would expect this to be an extra challenge for someone in both AA and SLA.

That being said, you have described a person whom you know has many many issues and then you are complaining about him having issues. There is talk of "red flags" in alanon and in CoDA about what kinds of behaviors you are willing to put up with and which ones are not ones that you can accept. It sounds like you may be describing red flags for you in terms of progressing further but you are trying to convince yourself they are just issues to be worked on, changed, or wondering if you should accept his behavior.

Only you can decide if the things he does are not tolerable to you in a relationship - It would seem like you have some serious misgivings. It's okay for someone to just not be the one (as hard as it is to scrap a relationship - If someone is not for you, you can't make them into what you want). You don't need to keep track of how they do this messed up thing and that messed up thing and try and get feedback on is this normal or is this right....? It's clearly not right for you from all you wrote and that is the voice you should be listening to.

Pray on this and let the answers come more clearly to you through whatever higher power you believe in.

Supporting you in whatever you decide,

Mark

rehprof · ~*Service Worker*~

so many times I have kicked myself for not listening to my gut...and the times I didn't listen it was primarily because I didn't want to HEAR what my gut was saying..because it was telling me to do something I didn't WANT.

You have the answers to your questions...they may just not be the answers your heart wants. Trust your intuition.

((((HUGS)))))

orchidlover · ~*Service Worker*~

did you look at the SAA bottom lines. Some of them are personal but generally they involve staying away from certain triggers.

I know how easy it is to get involved with arguing with the alcoholic/addict. It is a revolving circle.

I also know how it is to beg for your needs to be met. I've been there and done that.

What would it be for your life not to be centered around him, his issues, his plans, his absence and what he does?

Maresie.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.