"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

surfgirl123 · Senior Member

Update - How do you know when change is real?

Bargee · Veteran Member

Hi surfgirl,

I don't have any advice right now. My marriage is falling apart around me too.
I just wanted to say that I know what you are going through and you are not alone.
This is the worst situation I have ever been and I have no idea what to do anymore.

AStrongerMe · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm not sure we can know that before hand? My RBF, he's so far doing what he needs to do, is committed to it and has made wonderful improvements. I am doing my best not to focus on "what if" or to need any guarantees because it's just a set up for me.

I also try to remember that the process of breaking any habit (drinking, drugs, food, enabling, codependency) is wrought with relapse in the beginning and if the progress is being used and the person keeps getting back up quickly, sometimes that might be the most we get.

I know as a recovering sugar addict and a recovering codependent - I cannot promise someone I'll never engage in those behaviors again. I can only guarantee that I'm committed to doing everything I can to learn new ways to live.

It makes it very hard to be vulnerable - and for me detachment is what allows me to do that. I was never able to be vulnerable in my life until I had really gotten far in detachment. And I still have a lot to learn and come here and see how others practice it and I find new relationships to apply it to in new ways. It's a process, it's a forever lifetime thing. I'll always have to work on me.

Its when they or we give up on our process, then we know any process or progress is now stopped. That didn't feel very helpful at all, I'm sorry, I just know that in my life - having to live with an ex who is mentally ill, a child who is mentally ill and now loving a recovering alcoholic, I had to redefine what I needed guarantees for.

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Well, I think you need to think about what it is you want. I agree with what ASM has said it's not an easy road. It's more important that you know what you want and what you don't. I kind of see when they try something new and you are doing new behavior that there is a sense of change back .. go back to the old behavior that i can count on. You know it's ok to tell the shrink you aren't ready to talk and take a few days to think about what you want and what you want to talk about .. kwim? You don't have to go in just because someone says I'd like to see you tomorrow alone. After all there is some other chicky in CO who he is still in contact with which is another symptom of his disease.

It might help you to go to some open AA meetings and just listen to what the A's share about recovery and what it means to them. Those meetings have taught me what it means for them to truly work a program of recovery, fall down, get back up and then proceed to continue moving forward. I hear a LOT of personal responsibility in those meetings as well. It just blows my mind.

Personally change takes a LONG time to go through and while some is slow and some is fast .. it takes being consistent on wanting that change too. While following their own program of recovery as we put all of the focus into our own.

Take what you like, in my own situation I know how much I have grown and not to take someone else's inventory I can see how little has changed with my AH .. nothing changes .. guess what .. nothing changes.

Hugs P :)

Dolly Llama · Senior Member

In my humble opinion, we know they have changed when their actions have changed, are consistent over a long period of time. Words are just words. I think...and again my opinion only...when someone is actively working a recovery program, it is quite evident. They have a relationship with a sponsor, they study their literature, take care of themselves (mind, body, spirit), etc. Sure, there are ups and downs, but I really feel that you will know from their actions over the long term.

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

I think..... this is where "One Day at a Time" comes in (or one hour, or one minute - whatever it takes....

You will "know when you know", and not a moment before..... Until that time, just try to break things down into manageable chunks.... See what tomorrow brings in your appt with the counselor.... See how you feel after that, etc....

I trust that this counselor is trained in addictions, right??

Take care

Tom

oldergal · Senior Member

Surfer, do not let ANYONE pressure you into any serious life decisions take your time. Read Dolly Llama's post they are good words for sure.

So far you have only heard "words" and "emotion" from him, what you want to see is "authentic actions".

Think about what YOU want your life to look like....go to meetings to help YOU make decisions.

Remember: "Poor life planning on his part does not constitute an emergency on your part

In support Oldergal

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Counselors are only vehicles to help people help themselves. She has a vested interest and having here clients' relationships work out. She's not your counselor. Addictions counselors are often not trained as relationship counselors also...An addictions counselor usually looks for the quickest way to have their client be stabilized. Hence, they will encourage "no major changes" even in circumstances when a major change might be indicated. I can only speak for me in this - but had I not left my ex-A, he would probably be dead now and I might be too. We had a family session while he was committed to the hospital after trying to OD while drunk - That counselor tried to help our relationship and such but it was crisis counseling to get him to not be suicidal....It wasn't really a nuetral session for both of us.

Plenty of you folks know I'm full of crap half the time (bearing witness to counselors not knowing everything) so stay true to your own HP and pray on this.

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

As Tom wrote: You know when you know

How long before you know depends on the alcoholic. And even then, you really don't know if the changes will last.

So I focus on me and work towards making the changes that I have made second nature. I have that power.

Oksie · Senior Member

I left an ex of mine. AFter two weeks away he told me how much he was going to change, he realised what had gone wrong etc etc.... his actions toward me during that time were extremely remorseful etc etc.

I had been asking to visit my family in Scotland for quite a few years. He always said no it was too expensive etc. Where I live, Bali is a quick easy and cheap holiday and he was thinking about going there.

One of his promises was that he understood finally that I wanted to see my family and we would plan for Scotland etc

I went back.

The night I went back, he said he had been thinking and he thinks Scotland is too expensive and far and we should go to Bali first to see how overseas trips are like as we have never done that before.

Right there and then my hopes shattered. He had not changed one little bit. It took me another two weeks to arrange to leave again, this time with a police escort to get my stuff.

I guess what I am saying is that words are just words.

Too hard · Senior Member

My experience has been that when I left my husband, with my children, he did not know where I was for 5 to 6 weeks. He was never violent or abusive, this was not the reason. It was a dreadful shock for him.

In this time he then was in contact with AA and I with Al-Anon.

I chose to leave the state and never went back.

He joined us after 6 months, both staying with our groups, but it was many months before he was able to finely stop drinking altogether.

Personality changes for us both have been a very slow process, years in fact.

Re counsellors; very important that they have lots of experience with addiction.

Every good wish. T.H.

surfgirl123 · Senior Member

As always, everyone's replies are extrememly helpful. Glad I got this input before I go see the counselor, it crystalizes some of my feelings and direction here. She is experienced in addiction but you guys are right, she is HIS counselor, not mine and her interests are with him and what's best for HIM, not me. Actions not words hits the problem right between the eyes, his remorse is always there but his actions never follow. I am going to go today but I know now what I want to say to her about MY interests and what is best for ME, perhaps if she hears it she can finally help him understand. Regardless of what the movies tell us, love is not some bottomless pool of continued chances, I am starting to view more like a bank account, you can't keep making withdrawals without putting in some deposits - my husbands account is very low and this point and if his actions don't start depositing back in there will be nothing left, when nothing is left you go bankrupt. Thank you all for the clarity - YOU ARE ANGELS ON EARTH, sg.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

Spend time with your HP and maybe read some Al-anon daily readers before you go and listen to what she has to say. See what you feel like doing for today and if you feel any red flags don't react, but take a look. I am sending you love and support!

sookie · Senior Member

This is the million dollar question. Love this thread and i struggle with this too. I look back and my AH got out of rehab something like 18 months ago...and has moved out 9 months ago. But I still struggle daily with "is it over or not" and I love what I have read here. I too have told myself I will SEE it in his actions, in his attitude, when he has really embraced recovery. his words mean nothing since he lies so much. And for me, I have not seen "it" yet--but I see progress, so I guess that is why I haven't been to a lawyer. But WOW--this is a hard hard question.

From my experience, we went to counseling together to 'work on the relationship' WAY too soon. There was no point--he was broken down and so was I. And the counseling ended after he got wasted after our second session and then his second DUI a month after that. Again--I was heart broken because my hopes were up, but deep down, I knew there was no point--that the time wasn't right. Until I see some progress in him, what's the point?

I may not expect a fairy tale marriage. Let go of that dream a LONG time ago--but 'functional' relationship would be nice for a change.

Best wishes for peace and thanks for this share!!!

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"