hello from an Atheist who needs the program but not the G.O.D. - Al-Anon Family Group

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

hello from an Atheist who needs the program but not the G.O.D.

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Mom68, welcome to MIP

To me, early recovery was all about challenging my old beliefs and what I thought I knew. I had to do that for this reason - what I was doing was not working. Life was not good despite doing what I considered "my best."

As you may already know, the HOW of the program, or HOW it works is Honesty, Open-mindedness, and Willingness. The most important thing my sponsor told me, was to just never say, "never." It's okay to say, "maybe not today." But it's very important to stay open and willing. If I don't, I close myself off to solutions outside of my human limitations. All or nothing black and white thinking is part of my dis-ease. Similarly, dictating what it SHOULD look like is me playing god too, and that just never worked for me, I just continued to suffer.

You may enjoy some of Einstein's thoughts on God, here's one:

"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

I love how he mentions humility. The best definition of humility to me, is to remain teachable. He also frequently mentions nature. My experience walking in nature is, it has a magical soothing effect, it calms me in a way I cannot get otherwise and I think of it as God. Also, if you study anatomy and physiology, that amazing intelligence and energy fully supports Life, it's incredible! And even Einstein couldn't fully understand it, it's all so vast.

All of that..... "reality"... and "what is"..... it's all bigger than me. And that's all I ever really needed, was to believe in a power GREATER than myself.

I am so grateful for your post today, please keep sharing your journey, my friend. You never have to deal with alcoholism alone again. ((hugs))

-- Edited by glad lee on Sunday 6th of May 2012 11:24:21 AM

UK Jane · Veteran Member

Hi Alanonmon68,
I registered on this site just to speak to you. I've been lerking here for ages but never bothered to register. I too am an atheist the whole god thing really put me off to start. I kept going back to meetings because I was so depressed and in a very dark place there was nowhere else for me to go. I'm lucky in that the group I attend as another athiest there and he helped me.

He told me he uses the group as his higher power. I do sometimes feel the power within the group but not always. My sponsor also helped she told me about reading about "group sinergy", you might find it interesting. I'm having to "act as if" for most of the time. Personally I put gods on a par with fairies, leprecorns and superstitions but of course I'd never say that to "beleivers".

I don't know if you have access to other groups near where you live but maybe finding a group with other atheists or agnostics in it would help?

As you can see from my username I live in the UK. I've only ever visited the US on holiday but from what I've seem I think things are more relaxed over here about religion. Agnostics and atheists are accepted as just as moral and worthwhile as religious types. I found it interesting that you are warned not to cause offense. I find it very offense to have religous people knocking on my door telling me I should believe something written in a book they are holding. Its interesting to that atheists and agnostics don't go around knocking on doors telling others that they are mistaken.

I wish you well with your programme, sinergy is a science maybe it could help.
Take care of yourself, take what you like and leave the rest.
Peace & Love
Jane

-- Edited by UK Jane on Sunday 6th of May 2012 12:39:49 PM

AlAnonMom68 · Newbie

I'm new here. I found this board by doing a Google search on "al anon for atheists." I am a full-on scientific believer, but NO GODS for me, please. Keep Thor, Yahweh, Jesus and all of 'em.

The program worked really well for me when I first started going to meetings back in 2002/3. I went for a couple years, and then dropped off the charts. Since that time, I've gone from Catholic to Zero, but I still have issues with my (many) alchoholic/addicts in my life. I still have a need for peace and self-control. I also have a need for friends with the same values.

Right now I'm going through some pretty bad problems in life. One of the ways I got my life together "way back when" was Al-anon. I have come crawling back...well, walking actually! No reason to crawl. Al-anon has always been kind to me, and only my addicts require me to crawl...LOL...

Are there other Atheist Al-anons out there who might be willing to talk to me? I'm a mom, 43 years old, two kids (boy who is 11 and girl who is almost 13).

I am totally willing to offer up my problems to the universe, but not to any god or fairy or leprechaun. I believe in science and reason. I believe Al-anon and science/reason should belong together and that gods only get in the way. It's a temporary crutch that so easily can be kicked out from under you. Self-love and self-preservation are important to me. When my "self" is strong, I can parent my children properly. It is by depending on that which does not exist that I have problems. What does not exist? Gods. My power over another individual, or anything at all except myself.

A god that can "cure" cancer should be able to "cure" amputees...so... let me know when that happens. In the meantime, I'm an Atheist seeking reason and strength. I've found it in the program before, and I now seek it again, but without the magic fairy.

Help please?

Thanks to all.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Alanon mom

I am glad that you found this Board and have also received help from the alanon program in the past. As you know ala non is a Spiritual program and not a religious one.

We do respect everyone's beliefs and do not judge, poke fun at or critique each other in any form.

No one needs to know what your concept of a Higher Power is as discussion of religion is not our focus.

Choose to believe in nothing and use the program as best you can

Keep coming back It works

Iamgood · Member

THis is a timely post for me. And I will try to share where I am at.

I was raised in an atheist family. What I understood to be implied was - leanign on God is weakness.

We had 1 family member who had a religion and she was extreme in her beliefs. And the rest of the family mocked her for it.

Now I am here in Al-Anon, needing to heal, wanting to heal. And I want what others have - healing, hope, joy, clear thinking, detachment, emotional sobriety, faith.

I do not know what a Higher Power is exactly.

For me now, it is something like this:

- This post on a day I am pondering my faith in a Higher Power

- Attending a meeting and the shares being just what I needed to hear

- My cat coming up out of the blue to sit on my lap when I feel sad

- Someone/somtehing to pray to instead of asking someone else (mom, dad, boyfriend) to fix me.

- Getting a flat tire and then realizing, wow, I was too tired to go to that event anyway, the flat tire helped me see that.

- Getting a flat tire (same day) and then finding a stray dog while waiting for the tire to be fixed. That dog became my mom's beloved dog.

- Be willing to say I am sorry or make amends because I have nothing to lose, nothing that can be lost, I am okay if I admit faults

- This morning - someone picking up the phone when I made a program call and having time to talk

All of this said, I still doubt sometimes whether I am believing in a Higher Power. I am not sure what this is.

Higher Power for me also seems like something deep in me that helps me do the next right thing, to act in a way that I can be proud of, that can help me see when I stray from that.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

I've known more than several atheist in the program who have done well and lately haven't asked or heard them talk about God at all. They do talk about surrender and for me surrender as a behavior is giving up the fight and letting my mind, body, spirit and emotions be taken over by something or person or being greater than myself.

As others will say also, my perception of my HP has changed since I've been in program and much of that change has happened face to face or spirit to spirit with my Higher Power.

Science has a definition for alcoholism and part of that definition describes a power (a constant compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body which is progressive and fatal) much greater than myself. So I need to have a power greater than the disease and myself in order to survive and grow thru this. I had to overcome the "fear" of surrendering my own self before I could recover. If I could have thought my way thru it I wouldn't be here or have a problem with it.

The closing statement of our face to face meetings says in part for me, "If you keep and open mind you will find help"...that is what I heard early on and that is the first fulfilled miracle in my recovery. I have a question, given to me by a former sponsor which keeps me in line when I think I have the solution or only solution to something which causes me to become closed minded again. The question is "Could I be wrong"? It's not possible for me to answer that question with no... I keep coming back and the name of my Higher Power is "Akua" understanding from within my culture. My 24/7 meditation is "God is"

By the way one of the definitions of G.O.D. is Good Orderly Direction...how's that for covering what you're looking for? The MIP family is powerful and I also welcome you from the Pacific. Great post to start investigation of my own beliefs. Mahalo ((((hugs)))) smile

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I am an atheist and I have had no trouble using the tools and process of Al-Anon for my recovery. Some people say that they regard "GOD" as standing for "Good Orderly Direction." One poster on this site has used Buffy the Vampire Slayer as her Higher Power. For me the truth is that the way I was doing things wasn't working, and I had to follow a different path. I believe (and the discipline of psychology believes) that people yearn for "right direction" -- when we're unhappy, we know it and we want things to be different. For me that adds up to Good Orderly Direction -- the fullest flowering of our abilities and potential. That's the way I understand it -- that deep down we all have yearnings for and recognition of healthy ways to do things, however those feelings got there.

People in Al-Anon have many understandings of a Higher Power, from atheism through different understandings of supreme beings and over to people who follow a specific doctrine of a particular denomination of a Christian church. There will always be people who believe our way (whatever that way is) and people who don't in the fellowship. If we don't watch out we can get caught up in the differences between us. (People also see other differences -- maybe others seem too affluent and privileged, or too poor and uneducated, or too much like city folks, or too much like country folks ... etc.) But the things we have in common are far greater. The parts of us that want to stay sick, just like the parts of the alcoholic that want to keep drinking, can keep us focused on differences, and then we don't have to embark on change and recovery. It's not all or nothing -- that black and white thinking is a problem of pre-recovery -- "I disagree with those people on this issue, therefore I cannot agree with them on anything." Not saying you are saying this, but that was my typical way of thinking for many years.

My experience is that there is much wisdom here, however people have arrived at it. I hope you'll give it a try and overlook the different ways we explain how some things are.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

Al-anon has opened me up to not push my Higher Power whom I choose to call God on anyone. I think if you can find recovery in Al-anon no matter what you let go to, the better for you and those around you. I think there is a difference of religion and Sirituality and some people have one, both or believe in neither, doesn't matter to me, whatever works for you, it's your program. You can mock the idea of God if you need to and I won't take it personally, but do remember we try to be respectful of all belief systems in the name of the growth of the group as a whole. We try to not get in the way of each other and just be supportive here. This site has some of every group that I can think of and we have all been very loving and supportive and become a family here at MIP and that is why we are here. I hope you keep coming back and can dive into your Al-anon program. Sending you love and support on your journey!

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi,

A higher power can be anything from science( since you are a scientific believer). As long as you know that YOU are not the higher power, you will have success. I had Mother Nature as my higher power for a long time. Right up there with her was electricity. I have a degree from university in biology and I look at how the body works and how the brain works and know that it is all a higher power than me. Many people use the wisdom of the group as their higher power.

Actually all of this is much ado about nothing and it is keeping you away from embracing the program. Chose a rabbit on the fence as your higher power. It really doesn't matter. As long as it isn't YOU. There is something in this world that has more power than you. We don't understand what it is and how it works, but it does work. Give it a chance.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

For someone who does not want to include God in her recovery, ones whole post is about it!

HP is whatever you believe to be higher than yourself. You said you like things scientific. So maybe your HP could be the energy of what keeps the world going.

You can practice the steps, learn more about how we have no control over anyone else but ourselves. That no one else can make us feel anything. We can choose how we will respond.

So all we needed to know you are an athiest, however putting down what others believe and wanting ones to respect that your beliefs.....

Al Anon accepts everyone. You can learn to let go period.

I hope this helps. I would like to be able to support you, so feel welcomed and we are here for you, just how you are!!

love,debilyn

david62 · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome back to Al-Anon Mom68,

When I became willing to accept that I was not God, Al-Anon was able to change my life. Did I think I was God? Well not in those terms...but I sure acted like it. Thinking I had the answers. Thinking I could possibly control another human beings thoughts, addictions, actions. Thinking that I knew what was best for someone else.

The other thing I heard when I started coming was "Stop looking for the differences and start looking at the similiarities". That has been huge for my recovery.

I don't need to know if someone else sitting in an Al-Anon meeting with me is a Christian, an Athiest, Buddhist, Gay, Straight, Double winner, etc, etc etc....truly, when it comes to my recovery...I don't care.

Leave all those labels outside the door, and focus on the steps, the traditions, the concepts, the program.

Be-little no one's beliefs. Check my arrogance and judgment of others at the door also.

Keep coming back, it definately does work if you work it.

David

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

Wow what a great discussion. :)

I do believe in a Higher Power (sometimes I choose to call that HP "God" since it just slips out easily enough, but my own mental picture of this "God", I'm sure, is waaaaaay different than what others might picture).

I recognize in this program that in order for it to work for me, I really had to believe that SOMETHING out there outside of myself could be depended upon to handle my problems when it was abundantly clear I couldn't handle them myself. Until I'm ready to let those problems go, then I'll be stuck feeling like it's all up to me all the time.

I've heard members designate the group as their HP. One friend of mine started off with calling the heating unit in his house his HP. Another deemed the ocean her HP. On a scientific level, one could very well just deem the universe their HP.

As others have said... don't matter what your HP is so long as it's not you.

orchidlover · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome back to al anon. Whatever your belief pattern you are welcome here. My experience is that no one told me what to do. Suggestions are always helpful. Prayer hasn't been too much of a insistence for me here.

For me the practical tools of al anon, detach, focus on myself, take care of me is such a tough one to do. I struggle tremendously with the actions of alcoholics/addicts around me. I live, work, sleep around them. Thankfully for me I'm no longer in an intimate relationship with one.

You are very welcome here. I think sometimes I spend a lot of time on this board and other times I have to be off doing other things. Whatever participation I have the program always helps.

Maresie.

Fina · Veteran Member

Wow! You really started something! Good! I've had to deal, recently, with just this issue. I'm a retread too. I came into Program 33 years ago an athiest and found a wonderful meeting, a great sponsor and, despite myself, a higher power.

Like someone else shared, I started with the Program as my higher power. It was spiritual, enlightened and very straight-forward. It had steps that could be taken, that others had taken, that had led to recovery for them.

But that wasn't easy for me. Damn it, I could live without some "opiate of the masses", thank you very much. It was obvious to me that religion was b.s., that it was used to control others and that it was abused by those in power.

I tried and tried to wrap my head around the god thing. But it always came back to some human-made religion that was corrupt and out of control.

So, I allowed my ego back in, and it played with me, telling me that I could play at Program, play with those who believed, and manipulate my way through the steps. It took some time, but I was finally too good for Program and found my own way . . . and fell into the abyss once again.

So, now I'm back because I got such peace and joy the first time. I'm working the steps again and I found some of my own truths that I'd like to share with a fellow athiest.

I cannot STAY in recovery without leaning on a Higher Power. Oh sure, I can get that instant lift from being around others who know Program and work the steps. But my ego is always there, like that cancer. I can go into remission and feel great for awhile, but it doesn't last. My ego, in remission now, will creep back in a little at a time. Just judge this person, gossip about that one, get what I want a couple of times and slowly but surely, I've forgotten that my ego was even ever there. I believe that I can trust in my own thinking, the stuff that got me here in the first place.

So, for me, it's become really simple. It's Ego vs. God. So, even simpier still, I decided to "act as if" I believed and to "fake it til I make it" when it comes to believing. I write to God, I meditate and then I do what appears to be the next indicated thing. My mind is clearer, my emotions calmer and so what I end up doing is not out of fear, it's out of what's really best for me.

Honestly, I don't know what's out there. I have faith in the truth that I cannot do this alone, that my ego will cause me more harm and suffering if I allow it, and that I need that power greater than myself, because my disease sucks big time.

I sure hope this helps.

Michelle814 · ~*Service Worker*~

AlAnonMom, I really hope youre still around. I have very strong, personal, spiritual beliefs but I did not always. It grew on me, one day at a time.. and it grows on me. I have had supernatural powerful moments.. I call that my higher power, you call it what you like. But what I wanted to say to you is, keep coming back. No one is judging you here. You don't have to believe in anything at all, it will help just to show up. The steps are suggested... having a higher power is suggested... its all just there, as a blueprint, if youre willing. No one is saying your higher power, if you do find one, has to be like anything else that already exists in others' minds. You are free to let go of the anger, resentment or religion.. I had alot coming in and now I can say I respect all peoples' beliefs.. even those who used to nag me to join their religion. I let go of the anger, resentments etc.. everyone is just doing the best they can, they way they think they should.

Hope to see you again.

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

Even though I have a strong belief in God, I would have to say that my higher power, especially in the beginning, was often the strong desire to stop the insanity - get off the crazy train; understand what was happening and why; return my life to the peaceful way it was before I met and married mr ex.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.