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(((ILD)))...You're going after it so give yourself a pat on the back and a couple of hugs and continue to use time in the healing cause it won't come over night and it doesn't come from using more strength...Persistence is of better value.
you said; "I am so afraid of being hurt again that I seriously don't know how I'm going to trust again and if it takes too long for me to heal, where will my marriage be at that point? Marriage takes two." I am so afraid is where you look at first cause fear is the condition (for me) that makes love impossible. Love for me is the complete and total acceptance of everyone else for exactly who they are...unconditional acceptance warts and all and without my pride and ego involved. When my pride and ego are involved than I will take every hurt personally and trust disappears and the other person gets no mercy or margin from what they have done in the past even if they did not do it to me on purpose (lots of stull my alcoholic/addict did had nothing to do with me...it had to do with her disease). When I learned that alcoholism was about disease and not a moral issue my wife became a sick person, as she really is rather than the "bad" person which I was compelled to make her. Al-Anon taught me many things and one of them was not to "take on" hurt and pain when and where I had a choice not to. I had to free myself from the problem and that had nothing to do with her. When I freed myself from the fear with the help of the program and especially my HP the disease had no power to hurt me any longer and I wasn't about to give it the power any longer. I learned that Expectations are future Resentments and this one helped me to adjust my expectations of the alcoholic/addict. I was expecting things she (in her disease) would never ever come close to fulfilling normally and I had to do a 4-9 on the expectations...real and unreal. I was looking for her to be the source of my happiness and instead the unmet expectations became the source of my sadness. I could put myself in that personality also so when I stopped judging her I went to work on my own inventory gratefully. No one likes unfairness so I quit judging.
The opposite of anger is acceptance...If you have Al-Anon literature go after the subject of acceptance...daily readers and the other literature. Being able to live my life without the daily doses of anger I use to have is one of the widest most powerful spiritual feelings there is for me and just after that is gratitude.
Forgiveness takes over when you practice it rather than resentment. Even God doesn't use resentment and were not in that league.
(((((hugs))))) Keep coming back...with your courage.
PS...sometimes marriage takes one...the one that forgives...and that could be him many times huh?
-- Edited by Jerry F on Wednesday 14th of March 2012 06:02:53 PM
I have no idea why I am having such a hard time with forgiveness. I am still angry, I am still holding on to past hurts, and I am miserable. I know that true forgiveness will set me free but I feel like I'm making up stuff to keep my unhappy. I'm sure it's all part of my own co-dependent behaviors and thinking issues.
I want to trust again, but I seriously don't know if or when that will happen. I sit here and feel sorry for myself but I know that's not right. I know I want more from my life and from my marriage and my AH says he's ready to give it. Yet, I don't feel ready to accept it because I am still sitting in a corner licking my wounds. I am so darn afraid of opening myself up that I honestly feel like running away. Sometimes just the thought of having a deep conversation with him makes me sick to my stomach and anxious because I am so tired of talking about the past and having the pain come to the surface.
He knows how I feel. He says he's committed to fixing our family. He says he's not drinking and that he has no intentions to do so ever again. I guess I just don't believe him. Lately, I feel like I've been making mountains out of mole hills just for the sake of releasing my negative emotions in some way. It's like I'm always searching for an outlet and he just happens to be the recipient of all my junk. I know it sucks, but we wouldn't be in this place if he didn't violate my trust and do the things that he did, and he knows that.
I keep waiting for the day when God lifts the burdens off my shoulders. Some days are better than others and there are times when compassion and love slip in there, but most of the time I just want to run and hide and put distance between us. He says he just wants to be invisible to me right now because he thinks I hate him. I didn't disagree with him. I do hate him in some ways, but I figure that's better than being indifferent.
I am so tired of being emotional. I am happy, though, in general and don't feel depressed. I just don't know what to do with so much mixed feelings. It sounds so simple: just forgive and the trust will follow, right? Hmm, well it's been a month since the DUI and I still feel the same way I did 1 month ago. Rage, sadness, anger, disappointment, etc. Why am I making this so complicated?
Please please please be so very gentle with yourself. You have suffered no less than a trauma regarding the DUI and it is a life trauma. It is all going to take time and forcing things is not going to make it easier. I still deal with some anger (it comes and goes much faster than it used to I no longer get stuck in it) regarding the DUI the difference is .. I know now that the DUI was not about me. I used to think the DUI was all about me and honestly it is all about the addiction.
LOL .. you can virtually slap me however I"m back to get a sponsor, work the steps and I think you will find that as you heal doing those things through the program that you will find peace and serenity. It all takes time. YOU are worth the time and effort, .. this is not about your AH it's not about the DUI it's ALL about YOU and you finding peace, serenity and clarity.
We are powerless over addiction. We are powerless over people, places, things and the past. My self will does not create results when we are talking about God's time.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
When did forgiveness take over..... for me, it was probably after working steps 4-9. Once I could clearly see my own lack of substantial being, I had compassion for my ex-alcoholic husband. I began to see us as equals...
So I made amends to him and he cried. Then I finally got the "apology" from him I had once waited YEARS to hear, but the words that came out of my mouth were, "I no longer hold you responsible for my unhappiness, I hold myself responsible." (I truly could not believe it, it was like the grace of god came over me and these strange words fell out of my mouth, lol)
Today I see my ex-husband as someone God sent to help me. And when my mind wants to take over again, like it often likes to do... because my ego sometimes likes to hold all the aces in my relationships... and denying someone forgiveness is doing just that. Then I can see myself as the powerful one.
But that's not who I want to be. Hatred is not a strength, it's a poison.
I love the step 3 prayer, "God, I offer myself to You, to build with me and to do with me as You will. Relieve me of the bondage of self.........." Bondage of self always reminds me of my defects of character so I just continue to pray for God to change me. I know too well, my defects of character cut me off from the sunlight of spirit.
So, to answer your question, forgiveness came from the result of working the steps. I will never stop working them, I consider it God's work. Not that you need to renew your relationship with your husband, I am not saying that because that is not what I did. I worked the steps and followed the guidance that came from there.
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
Well, I've gotten lots of apologies and he is aware that I don't trust him right now. I hear myself saying that I forgive him but then I have a negative thought and I beat him up mentally in my own head and then I feel down because I know that I brought that upon myself. He says he just wants me to be happy, but I told him that he is not responsible for my happiness, that I need to find it for myself.
Pushka, I know it's not about him. I know it's about me but then I feel guilty that I am not ready to give fully of myself to him. I am constantly withholding my pain, my physical touch, my love, etc in an effort to protect myself and maybe, on a subconscious level, as a way to punish him in retaliation for the pain that he caused me. And, I know that that's not fair at all and that it's a twisted way for me to one up him to some degree.
I am so afraid of being hurt again that I seriously don't know how I'm going to trust again and if it takes too long for me to heal, where will my marriage be at that point? Marriage takes two. If he's willing to work on improving things with me and for me, then shouldn't I reciprocate? Sometimes I wonder if our relationship is beyond repair and other times I am hopeful that this can be a new start. He says he wants to start with a clean slate. I don't believe that's possible when you have a past with someone.
Oh, he also suggested we go to marriage counseling. I almost laughed at that one. I seriously think that if we go to counseling together that he'll look like the sane one and I'll be the crazy one. Especially now that he's the good guy and he's then one committed to working things out and not drinking and taking responsibility for his DUI, etc. I, on the other hand, am dealing with serious trust issues and I'm trying to work on forgiveness so I'm the one who's going to break down in tears and look crazy, LOL.
I just don't know what to do with so much mixed feelings. It sounds so simple: just forgive and the trust will follow, right? Hmm, well it's been a month since the DUI and I still feel the same way I did 1 month ago. Rage, sadness, anger, disappointment, etc. Why am I making this so complicated? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Wow, be gentle with yourself. It's only been a month!! I wasn't even speaking to him after a month and he still blamed me for everything wrong in his life. I noticed after a few YEARS that I no longer worried about forgiving him. It just happened gradually as I learned more about myself.... and made myself more important in my opinion. I don't think the sequence was "just forgive and trust will follow." I think it was "trust my HP and then forgiveness just automatically happened." Holding that sword over my hubby's head didn't matter anymore when I had my trust in someone/ something bigger.
It is not complicated. It is many steps. You have lots of emotions that need to get expressed in a safe place (Al-Anon). Don't stuff your emotions. That is what your hubby would probably love so that he doesn't have to have the guilt from listening to it all. But if he is guilty, then he is guilty. You can help him by taking your emotions to a meeting. You will get a good response from your fellow meeting-goers. And you can say it every week and they won't get tired of it and won't get a guilty feeling from it. And you will be able to sort it all out and get a feeling of relief.
Think of a puppy that was constantly kicked. The puppy gets very wary. You are that puppy. You can't expect the puppy to just "get over it". There is a lot of un-learning to do. And only time and the proper conditions will do that. Make good use of your time and take care of yourself.
To me, forgiveness is something I do for me. Not for him. I never told him I forgave him, and I never will do that. I didn't have an affair on him. I didn't turn my back on my wife and family. I didn't force the end of the social life. I didn't sleep away/ pass out every moment at home. I didn't have blackouts and lie about it.
But maybe it is closer to what you said, that I Let It Go. It will only eat me up if I don't. Forgiveness is for me. Even my HP can't change history.
I agree on that .. forgiveness is not about condoning the actions of another person for me it's about letting go of the past and moving forward so that my actions are not reactions of the past during the present.
ILD, .. you have been through sooo much and it's going to take a LOT of time and a LOT of patience and even forgiveness to yourself. Forgive yourself first before you look at forgiving your spouse. At this point be so very gentle with yourself. From what I read you are creating so much pressure on yourself to be perfect in this and you don't have to be nor will you be. That's what is so wonderful about the rooms of alanon is those moments when you are just fried and fired up that's where you are safe to vocalize yourself and what is going on.
I am sending you so much support and so many hugs, .. you are just right where you need to be in your healing right this min. Give yourself a big atta girl and stop with the pressure .. don't make me come out there
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I hear you both on the letting go thing, too. This AM he got on me about how I need to leave it in the past and how he wants to start over. "The past?" I yelled. I said, "I'm talking about something that just happened in the past few months, not something from 10 years ago." He's giving me my space, he understands that I need time, but my own impatience is kicking in. My poor kid is hearing us fight and he hears me crying about crap and it's hard. He automatically thinks we're headed for divorce. Sigh, I'm just worn out and so dang tired. I am still playing lots of tennis with my friends, I'm still doing all my homeschooling with our son, and I'm working hard to maintain some sort of normalcy on a day to day basis. At the end of the day, though, I'm just done. Like the line from Seinfeld, "Stick a fork in me, Jerry, I'm done." LOL
4 weeks ago is NOT the past .. it is NOT on you to make it all better. It is on HIM to deal with his mess, that HE made and you just have to take care of you. If I have learned nothing in the past year this for me has been the biggest lesson.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I agree with Pushka about working the steps with a sponsor. You come into alanon with a busted mind and are trying to fix it with the same broken tools. Get a sponsor and work the steps until you have a new way of thinking, looking at life, and solving problems. That is how it worked for me (granted it was more in AA, but the steps are the same). I understand that many people on this board do not work the steps and do not get a sponsor but that is really jipping yourself out of 90 percent of the program right there. Alanon is recovery and the first word of the first step is "WE" not "I". You have all our support ILD, but I think sponsor and stepwork is going to take you to the next level. You have absorbed as much of the basic info as you are going to on your own and are staring to go in circles and beat yourself up over not making progress but there is no more progress to be had working this on your own. I spent a LONG LONG time going "I wish I could think and feel different" but I didn't DO anything different. It was not until I put one foot in front of another to meetings, got a sponsor, worked steps and did service that I really changed as a person. Once you get busy doing all of that self-care, you will grow content with yourself and it will take the sting out of everything he does that you don't agree with (because you will be happier with just you). Make sense?
trust is earned....he has to keep behaving in ways that earn your trust....until you feel you can trust him...he blew it, the onus is on him to earn it back...
he can whine about it being unfair etc...but he's the one who broke it...if he's serious about recovery he will be patient and willing to do what it takes...and you may never trust him completely...another casualty of addiction...
allow yourself your anger. it is justified...just try not to let it consume you...
allow yourself to grieve for the loss of trust you once had in him...
because that which you resist persists....my resentments get worse if I fight them...have compassion for yourself (I like to ask...what would I do for / say to my friend if she was feeling what I am feeling right now?) If I say "man, I'm really resenting this..." and explore the feelings...I get further than if I "should" on myself and judge myself harshly for having them...
you can move through these emotions...and get clarity...and it takes as long as it takes...like someone said...have patience with yourself...this is big emotional work...
Ilovedogs, you have gotten so much wonderful ESH here, I just want to add that I don't think our HP generally swoops down and suddenly lifts the burden of anger and resentment. Trust isn't built overnight. When trust is violated, it isn't rebuilt overnight. As Pushka, especially, has said, please be gentle with yourself. It will take time, and it will not happen all at once. There may be things that you NEVER really truly forgive, but you find a way to move past them. What that looks like for you is totally your own journey. Think how long your AH has behaved in ways that have violated your trust and given you very legitimate reasons to be angry...a lot longer than 4 weeks, and there's a lot more involved than just a DUI.
You have a right to feel what you feel. You are absolutely right that eventually it becomes your responsibility to choose emotional health and do the hard work you need to do to move past certain things. Give yourself credit for how far you've come, and try not to worry too much about how far you think you have to go.
Im so sorry for your pain ilovedogs but im glad you posted it here. I can so identify with you. My partner slipped only 2 weeks ago and thinks i should have moved on already! Hell he couldnt understand how after dragging a confession out of him on the saturday morning that I would be angry on the sunday night!
It isnt the fact that he slipped its the fact he was lying to me about it. He works away but I could tell something wasnt right for the last couple of months and I asked him straight out are you using and he told me no. He has lied to my face before even when I caught him at it. Thats what hurts.
I have first hand experience of what he is going through though as im an ex alchi/addict. So I know all the empty promises and the lying. But I also know when I was ready to quit I was ready. But im trying to judge if he really is ready. I just feel our whole relationship is built on lies as he told me he was clean and sober when I met him.
I love what glad lee said about denying someone forgiveness is like holding the upper hand. I so get that but my question would be ...how many times are you meant to forgive?????
I wish you well in your recovery ilovedogs...I will be hear sharing your feelings with you.
I am so grateful for this thread as a reminder that my disease will justify, rationalize and defend my RIGHT to have a resentment, to stay where I am and to avoid the WORK so that I can be "right." For me, it takes a lot of meetings and chats with my sponsor to keep my brain from running my life.
I do not want to hold onto the past. I want to be free. Whatever I refuse to forgive, is NOT happening this moment but holding onto the resentment lets my brain keep it alive like an obsession, destroying any chance of happiness in this moment.
I did not DECIDE to forgive, would that even work?? Could it be that easy? Not for me. The steps changed me and it seems like a by-product of daily, persistent striving to be WILLING to do God's will, not my own. On my own, without God's power, I would never have worked a program either. And I think I would be dead today. Life was not worth living.
Forgiveness is not about accepting, tolerating and staying in an abusive situation. I never have to accept the unacceptable. To me, it was only about saying, I forgive you for being so sick. And I forgive myself too. We are human, we are equal.
-- Edited by glad lee on Wednesday 25th of April 2012 05:16:27 PM
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
I LOVE how you are not saying "I'll never do it" (((my good friend))) That is willingness! and it gives me goosebumps because that gives God a little foot in the door, lol.
I choose to work the steps only because I decided I have suffered enough. ((big hugs))
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
For me...forgiveness is a character asset like love is...It isn't what we do; it is what were are. Being unloving and unforgiving and such are defects of character and in 6 and 7 I'm willing to let them go and be someone different. ((((hugs))))
It's a fine line though....You can forgive without continuing to tolerate. Boundaries are tricky. I was reading another thread about not taking a person's disease personally with regard to them leaving drunken messages or cursing at you. I did forgive that stuff in the past and I accepted it as normal in my relationship because my ex was a drunk and so was I and we just fought constantly. If that happened now, I might forgive it eventually, but the relationship would be over. My tolerance for that is at zero now. Been there done that. My tolerance is also zero for someone being a drunk but that is because it risks my own sobriety. If my partner got a DUI it would be over. I made very sure he did not drink to excess before I continued dating him. I am simply not going to have that in my life now. But those are my choices and different due to my scenario of having no kids and my history in combo of never wanting to go back to that life. It's easier for me to draw those boundaries. What others experience and go through is totally different. Nobody has the answers but your HP really.
Remember that story I wrote about the DUI with my ex??? Well.. if you do.. you may have heard some pain in my words... can I just say now.. that happened about 16 years ago!!!!!
If I allow myself to think about it.. if I put myself into the feelings of the time.. I get angry and upset and cranky and victimised all over again.
I have to practice being in the 'now' with that one. I have not forgotten, I don't think I have forgiven either. But I moved on.
What is the beneift of holding onto it? What are you getting from it? If I were thinking of those questions for myself I would say... justified anger. Finally.. something tangible that I can hang on to and I have permission to be angry about it because it is tangibly wrong by me, others and even the law!!!!!
Justifiable anger is the hardest to let go of.
I am trying to forgive ME at this point. Its ok to feel all sorts of emotions. What are my actions with them is the important thing.
This is very recent (not 16 years hahaha), go gently on yourself. Increased stress increases cortisone levels which can make us ill if it goes on for toooo long. This is his mess... allow him to deal with it.
If you are waiting for your HP to take this burden, have you unstrapped it from your shoulders, or are you still holding a string????
It is really so early, its only a few weeks. This is a major affront to you, I know for me, pushing things down and saying "ok, lets move on" too quickly, is what gave me the deep issues to sort through later.
(picture me smiling through blood and bruises and saying.. its ok baby.. its past now, lets forget about it... then him making me wear makeup so public wouldn't see too easily).
For me forgivness started when I accepted responsibility for my part in the mess we had created , in my case it was mostly what I didnt do , I never stood up for myself i just let it all happen I hid behind my husb alcoholism for alot of yrs ,that way I could blame him for our problems , comming to this program I accepted my part * or lack of it * and alot of my anger and resentment towards him went away , also accepting that this truly is a disease made a big difference . Forgivness takes time and I agree with the statement that it is for you , not the alcoholic . enjoy the good days dont let the resentments eat at you . talk this out with your sponsor in private get it out of your head . thinking of you today . Louise
Wow, this thread is going and I'm so happy that everyone is sharing today!
Thank you for your story, Linda. Yes, 16 years is a long time and I guess I should just put things in perspective. You are right about the fact that if I force the issue too quickly now then I will be stuck dealing with it later.
Louise said something very important above that makes total sense to me. My part in our story is that I never stood up to him and then held it against him with hidden resentments, etc. I think I posted recently about how I have to learn to trust myself. To trust that I can speak up and that I can walk away from an argument and that I can tell him that his behavior is unacceptable. Once I can trust myself and set some boundaries then I won't be held in bondage to his alcoholism(or personality disorder or depression or whatever you want to call the past 17 years of issues, LOL).
Yes, ILD - you are really onto something there. I think it's what they call "handing their disease back to them." You keep doing that when you stick to your boundaries and then don't fall for their traps. He can own his disease. And that includes when he actually drinks and gets a DUI and also when he comes to you saying "You should leave me. You must hate me. The world will be better off without me." I put up with that stuff for years and it was always "his" stuff. It was not my job to constantly boost his self esteem. That was also a trap to see him as hurting and allow behaviors that should not have been tolerated (in my mind). I can see that now, but at the time it was a whirlwind of ups and downs and pain and drama.
