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Someone who is in AA with me, whom I do not know very well, posted something passive-aggressive on FB to me and I reacted, then apologized, then got angry a few days later and "told her off". She of course denied everything, saying she has no idea what I'm talking about, and she would like to "talk it out" on the phone with me.
Of course I see my behavior here. Reacting. Again. And yes, the FB page is getting taken down. Way too much exposure.
The thing here is that just like in my family, many people in AA completely expect I will doubt myself. Because I'm also a codependent and adult child I often feel like I'm in a Tiger Pit in AA. So a small part of me does say, "Maybe you're just paranoid". But when I saw what she wrote, every fiber of my being knew it was a manipulation. She saw what I had written on MY "friend's'" page, then actually followed me over there to post the passive-aggressive comment. No other way she could have seen it, as this 3rd party is not her FB "friend".
This woman is part of a crowd of gals who have been very shaming to me in the past: passive-aggressive cross-talk in meetings, etc., and they gossip among each other. She has hurt me less than the others but she has done some smaller things, yes. I no longer go to the meetings they attend and maybe FB is a way to keep watching and manipulating me. I do know she's in pain.
I know that manipulators will deny their behavior, esp when confronted. Since she is a gossip, she may be worried I'll gossip about her because I called her out on her behavior and asked her to please stop hurting her fellows in recovery. Should I bother "talking it out" with this woman as she has asked, or should I end it here and let it go?
-- Edited by WorkingThroughIt on Sunday 11th of March 2012 09:07:48 AM
Thanks, Betty. I'm not interested in having a relationship with this type of person, but she is in my other fellowship with me. And I am aware that I should live by principles. I was wrong to react, and do it so harshly. But really I hurt myself the most by giving away my power, something people are always looking to get me to do in there.
The problem here is, the passive-aggressive will always deny any wrongdoing and always looks to use someone with low self-esteem to serve their own selfish ends. So given that, part of me doesn't see the point in having anything to do with again.
-- Edited by WorkingThroughIt on Sunday 11th of March 2012 09:08:11 AM
I think the decison should be up to you. I know if I thought that I could clear the air and establish a reasonable relationship with someone I would have the conversation. i would be ready to "Say what I Mean and mean what I say and not say it mean"
I would need to have the issue straight in my mind. Not go into past events but stick with the facts, without judging or blaming.
My grandsponsor has a saying for this type of situation: If someone gets your goat, move your goat to another pasture. I hear lots of labeling, judging, and worrying about others. It's only dragging you down. Chin up and find some quality folks to spend time with - forget the haters and stop trying to figure them out. Let them be. You know all the hooplah they say about resentments in AA....I presume you know the spiritual axiom too...essentially "When I have a problem with someone else, I have a problem with me." As much as I hate that saying when I am utterly convinced SOMEONE ELSE is acting like a crap head - it still boils down to the same thing. The problem is with me cuz I let them upset me too much.
My goal is to have so much serenity that a bomb could go off next to me and I would be like "Everyone alright? That bomb was crazy. Whatever." and then move on. You have chosen recovery - Forcibly make your life a no drama zone.
Thanks Mark, I sure do understand what my wrongs were and know the spiritual axiom well and what was going on inside of me. Just not sure if I should try talking it out with this woman or not bother. Not sure what "move your goat to another pasture means."
Wow I sure related to what you shared about these women. I attended meetings at a club where that kind of behavior was wide spread. It felt like a big high school hang out. At times, people in those aa meetings were coming into the Alanon meeting I attended there crying and sharing about the gossip, who (not by name) "stole" their aa bf/gf etc. Of course we're always glad when people in aa are open to giving Alanon a try but it was unfortunate that they were coming in due to feeling unsafe in a recovery place. The main room was a hang out space when meetings weren't going on. It had one talbe At that table, the same crew for the most part would gather, hang out and bs. The talk was very loud after their meeting despite requests to keep voices low due to the Alanon meeting. I walked away from that club for awhile and found another meeting place where there is no gathering room just meeting rooms. The building is locked aside from when scheduled meetings are taking place. It's not a hang out.
There are lots of good people in recovery who work a program. You sound like you understand the principles of 12 step programs so stick with other winners like yourself. I would look closely at my motive if I was considering hearing anything more this woman has to say. The old me would go along with what someone like this wanted for fear of further retaliation. Today, I don't do that. Of course when we stand up for ourselves people like that aren't any too happy about it but it's important to me that others know that if they are disrespectful to me, I am going to respect myself. To thine own self be true. TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
Tiredtonite, sounds like you understand what I've been dealing with in AA. It's literally made me sick and hurt my health. I know they key is to tolerate and understand them. Unfortunately, power mongers and psychopaths will take advantage of codependents. I have my own ego of course which causes me to be disturbed, but I have NEVER identified with that type of behavior and it's made me feel as though I'm much more codependent and adult child than alcoholic, although I did drink alcoholically too. It's hard to know where I fit in or she go right now since the people in AA have completely isolated me. No one will help or sponsor me. Only those who "fit in" seem to make it or get treated well, at least in the meetings I go to. Alcoholics are very sick people, and our symptoms can differ.
I did have a close friend who helped me a lot at one time. The last thing he said to me was, "Just go to ACA and Alanon for a while. These people you're dealing with in AA are murderers. God forgive them for they know not what they do."
I will pray about whether I should talk to this woman, but I know I don't have to do anything about it today. I can wait and see what time brings. If at some point it's shown that i should do something I can take care of it then. Thank God for the ACA meeting that's happening tonight.
I remember the words of my mother when she used to have issues with soem peole in her Al Anon meeting when I was a kid.
I remember her saying "well we are a bunch of sick people all sitting in that room".
I have always remembered that. Especially that she said WE are all a bunch of sick people. Not THEY are all a bunch of sick people.
We all have to keep in mind which of our triggers are being hit, and which of theirs.
Should you take the phone call or not?? I dunno. Do you feel you would like some closure to at least have your right of reply and leave it there? Allow each of you to listen and have your say? OR would you prefer to let the sleeping dog lay? Perhaps that dog is asleep on some uncomfortable ground. I can't answer those questions, only you can.
BTW, my Mum stopped going to Al Anon, and dad stopped going to AA because of people in their groups. Dad continued on through on line boards, International affiliations etc. He has just started going back to meetings in the last couple of years. I think he is the better for it personally. Mum has never gone back because of 'those women' and the bad taste that was left in her mouth.
They worked thier program as best they could. They both still live in denial of a lot of things.
Bullies are bullies, no matter where they are. If you want to deal with them, then do it. If not, then "get your goat to a new pasture". (I get it Pinkchip) I don't understand why you would want to spend one more minute around her? Do you get something from her? from the friendship? from that particular meeting? Do you want to go away feeling the better person? Superior? Well, you are the better person just by not escalating the disagreement.
Thanks, Oksie. I am well aware of my defects here and stated them. The issue is whether or not to bother contacting a manipulator.
Thanks, Maryjane, I am a doormat and I know it. I am going to let my words sit, I stood up for principles. We aren't supposed to go out looking to hurt each other in any program and I'm sick of it. If I see her someday I'll just be kind and that will be my apology. I do not want to be superior, I have to do the right thing for others in order to be well myself, and in the future I will have to pause and act the way I know I should, which is to say nothing at all. I know with lots of prayer and God's help i know I can do it.
HI "Thanks, Oksie. I am well aware of my defects here and stated them. The issue is whether or not to bother contacting a manipulator"
I understand that is what you are asking. I also read that you identified your defects. I addressed the original question by suggesting that you may want to think about some closure or right of reply, or letting sleeping dogs lay. I shared my experience with your current situation in order to identify, then my thoughts on a couple of Questions I have asked myself in the past. I closed with a story of how it panned out for my parents.
I read between the lines in your reply to me that you feel I overstepped the mark in my words. That was not my intention and I apologise if that caused you any distress.
