The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
You're topic title "Is he crazy or am I?" could be the lead for an Al-Anon meeting.
In the F2F meetings I've attended, I have found other people who are struggling with that same question. In fact, for a long time I was crazy (and I still am on occasion). I've yelled, begged, cried, reasoned, drank with my AH, thrown him out, cried and begged some more, used logic, given him articles to read, issued endless ultimatums, given him phone numbers to call. And guess what? My AH is still an alcoholic, actively drinking away his life. Nothing I do can control his drinking. It's the 3 C's in AlAnon: I didn't cause it; I can't control it; and I can't cure it.
Find an Al-Anon meeting in your area. The general guideline in meetings is not to make any major decisions in the first 6 -12 months of recovery. Take the time you need breathe and learn about yourself.
-- Edited by Very Very Tired on Thursday 8th of March 2012 11:32:06 PM
I understand your confusion and concern. Please remember that alcoholism is a progressive disease and that one of the symptoms is that of Denial That means that the person who is an alcoholic deny's the problem and blames others.
I am sorry for the pain this disease caused you in your childhood and feel that alanon meetings could help to resolve some questions you have and help you to gain insight onto your inner feelings.
Alcoholism is a disease that is cunning and powerful. It infects all it comes in contact with so that attending alanon face to face meetings would help you regardless if your hubby agrees he has a problem. Attending meetings helps to break the isolation and gave me constructive tools to live and grow.
Please checkout the white pages for a listing of meetings and come back here and share the journey
-- Edited by hotrod on Friday 9th of March 2012 12:34:19 AM
Hi! I am new to this board and just don't know where to turn anymore. Let me start by giving you my background. I am an only child that lived with a functioning (for the most part) alcoholic father my entire life....vodka, hiding bottles, constant fights with my mom...the whole thing until he eventually got cardiomiopathy (sp?) and died suddenly a month before my wedding day. My dad drank every single day and I spent my entire childhood embarrassed and wishing that my mom would divorce him...he died when I was 25, and my mom never divorced him. He could never kick the habit and my mom could never seem to give up hope that he would. Now I have been married to my husband for 5 years and we have two wonderful children (ages 2 and 3 1/2) together. We both work and have great jobs that bring in good money. We have the 4 bedroom house and all that American dream crap. Now I am dealing with my husband's drinking....how can I be so lucky (sense the sarcasm). Let me tell you a little about him. I know he is not like my dad (yet) because he does not drink every single day and because he can stop drinking during the week he thinks he has no problem. The problem is that when he does drink, he does not know when to stop. He has admitted to me that when the alcohol is in the house, he will drink it, and has asked me on past occasions to get rid of the beer or not keep it in the house. He thinks that because he does not drink during the week that he should be able to do what he wants on the weekends. He is always the most drunk person at parties, holidays and even just casual get togethers. He just can't seem to contol it when he starts. He ruined Christmas Eve this year because he got wasted at his Uncle's house...I had asked him earlier in the evening to slow down because we had to be "Santa" later on, but that just pissed him off. Once we got in the car he screamed at me the whole way home with our kids in the backseat (I drove, btw). I BEGGED him to just stop yelling since it was Christmas Eve, but he just wouldn't quit. We got home and he went to bed and I had to put all the presents out by myself. He did not apologize the next day, nor did he think he did anything wrong...I was the wrong one for nagging him. He always tries to turn things around and tells me that I am just this crazy person and my dad screwed me up when it comes to alcohol. Sometimes he actually makes me think that I am the one with the problem (meaning, I make it all up in my head) and that I am just paranoid because of my dad. So, you tell me....I go to the store and leave him with the kids and he will have an entire 6-pack of beer gone by the time I come home a few hours later...mind you, this is not every time, just on the weekends. Is this normal? Tonight, we were home just doing the normal stuff with our kids and chores. He stopped and had a few beers while he was waiting to get his haircut on his way home from work and then he bought a 6-pack of beer on the way home and drank the 6-pack of beer all by his lonesome. Is this normal? BTW, he is off of work every other Friday, so this is considered part of his weekend. He is clearly buzzed, and I mentioned to him where he got the beer and he flipped out and said that he can't live his life like this anymore and can't stand me...he has become verbally abusive (not physically though) over the years and tells me that he hates me and said that he won't live his life like this with me constantly nagging him and being a bitch. He thinks when he stops drinking Mon, Tues & Wed that is supposed to be good enough. He doesn't get it. Or, am I the one that is over-sensitive to drinking? I just one time want him to be the DD when we go somewhere or not to be drunk in front of our kids. Why when we are home by ourselves with our childrend does he have to drink at least 6 beers?? I know I lived with an alcoholic, but don't normal fathers/husbands/people not drink by themselves on a regular basis, especially if they know their wife hates it? We went over another couples house a few Sunday's for a get together with 2 other couples and our kids. Yes, all the men were drinking, but somehow my husband manages to drink about 5 beers in less than an hour and as usual looks the worst of the men. Then he proceeds to tell me that he called off work for MOnday and is going to continue drinking with his friends...this is the 2nd time he called off for drinking in a month. I was obviously mad at this...we both work, but he is the breadwinner, but how dare I get mad? What am I, his mother? That is what he says to me, but if he loses his job down the line that affects all of us. The evening ended with me packing my kids up and going home alone and he continues drinking with his friends and they drive him home around 10:00. How dare I be mad for having to be the responsible person and take care of the kids all by myself? I could go on, but I hope you get an idea of where my frustrations are coming from. Am I just paranoid because of my dad or do I have a legitimate right to think that he has a problem? Can you have a problem with alcohol and still not drink every day? I just don't know what to do! I don't want to break up our family and sell this house. My kids adore their father! To tell you the truth, I am afraid of divorcing him and wondering if he is drinking on the days he has custody of them and not being able to see what is going on. What do you mothers do in this kind of situation? My kids are my world and I just want to do the best thing for them, but I just have no idea what that is at this point. He will not listen to me and try to understand...everything is my fault. Please help me!!!!!!
Thank you for your reply. I guess the thing I am really struggling with right now is the fact that he can go days without drinking and doesn't need to have a drink first thing in the morning, and he only drinks beer. Does he really have a problem? My dad was the kind of alcoholic that took a drink first thing in the morning, and was half drunk by the time he got home from work and had bottles hidden in every corner of the house. I guess just seeing how bad he was and comparing him to my husband makes me question if my husband really has a problem or if I am just overreacting given my past. No matter how many times I will ask him not to get drink too much at our kids birthday parties or on holidays, he always ends up getting drunk. He never has a day or a party where he doesn't feel like drinking. Every time he goes out with his friends they have to drive him home...I wonder if they get tired of taking care of him as well. A few weeks ago he drank beer here alone and wanted to carry our son upstairs that feel asleep on the couch. I wouldn't let him carry him because he had been drinking. He got really mad and wouldn't leave, he then leaned over to pick him and fell on him. He woke up the next morning and wasn't even ashamed or sorry for his behavior. I can cleary see this as a problem, but I honestly just don't get how he doesn't understand why I am upset and frustrated and "bitchy" all of the time. Why can't he see how he acts? Our son is 3 1/2 and will soon start becoming aware of when daddy is drunk. I just want better for my children. How can I stay in this house with him and my children and not be an enabler though? I am so confused
Aloha Frustrated and also welcome to this board. This is where you will find the experiences of others which will let you know that you are not alone. Tired's suggestion is probably the best you'll get for now. Face to Face Al-Anon meetings where you can sit and listen and learn. When I got to Al-Anon I was pretty well convinced that I knew everything and then I learned that I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know about alcoholism and I had to throw away the picture I thought I had about what was really going on and what I believed was happening.
The three Cs are gold because it tells me I am not responsible and it isn't about me. It also confirmed that I was powerless over her drinking and using and that the disease was running the entire show. I use to think my alcoholic/addict was a "functioning" one also until I recognized what was "not" happening in our marriage and life. She wasn't functioning at all and I wasn't either however it looked that way from a few angles.
Keep coming back and listening and find the hotline number for Al-Anon in your area from the white pages in your local telephone book and call to find out where we meet and when.
I'm glad you have found us. No, it is not normal. Alcoholics project their own version of reality so intensely that we start doubting ourselves. If we grew up with an alcholic parent, that also helps us have trouble figuring out what's normal. Many alcoholics have excuses like that -- "I only drink on weekends," "I only drink beer," "I only drink wine," "I only drink out of a glass," "I haven't lost my job," "I could control it if I wanted to," "You're the one with the problem," "It's under control already and you're just neurotic," "I've never had a DUI so no one else thinks it's a problem," "I've only had one DUI and it was a set-up, I wasn't drunk at all," "I never go to bars," "I only drink in bars," "I only drink at home," "I only drink on because you make me with all your complaining..." But in our guts we know there's a problem, despite their trying to change reality.
I hope you can find face-to-face meetings, and read all the threads here, and pick up the literature, and learn all you can. Keep coming back. Hugs.
Thank you! Right now it is hard for me to go to an Al-anon meeting for a couple of reasons. The biggest reason is because I have a full-time job and 2 little children. It is hard for me to attend meetings when I barely have time to pee....my husband is not very helpful with household chores either. Another reason is because this is the first time I am reaching out to someone else about this and am just really starting to believe that he has a problem. I guess I have been in denial after living with an alcoholic father that I could possibly have married an alcoholic husband too. I will keep coming here though and check to see if there are any meetings near me. Where did you guys start? Did you just start going to a meeting? When did you realize that you significant other really had a problem? It is nice to have someone to "talk" with this about.
Mattie, is is amazing how many of those excuses I have heard from him! Seriously! He will blame me and say that I am overreacing and then when I make a point that he can't deny he says he wouldn't drink if I wasn't such a bitch. I could seriously just shake him or punch him or something. He always has an excuse.
Jackie, in my experience only; I came to Alanon the first time because I wanted to find a way to change the addict in my life; (I thought if he got better; then I could or that he needed to before I could, etc.. ) I joined an Addiction website and learned everything i could on addict behavior and then eventually it was them who began to encourage me to go ,. that is why i went the first time .. later i went back when i recognized my obssession on the addict was why i needed to keep coming back .. i was the line in the book .. when my husband and i got married, we became one .. we became him .. I spent all my time focusing on him, trying to figure out what to do (with him, etc) and I completely lost me through my enmeshment with him .. Alanon recommends not making any major decisions of whether to stay or to go until after working through the 5th step .. I know you mentioned you hardly have time to pee but in my experience (only) i recognized in my busiest of moments, I was busiest in my obssession of him among other areas in my head .. my thinking .. i felt i had to do something so i continued in my obssession (it gave me something to do or a way to try to fix my situation.. I couldn't just sit still) .. turned out my addict had a problem but I had one too .. I had to figure out what to do with me .. It isn't easy to make a meeting, but one thing I recognized is that I didn't have time to not go .. my thinking was so confused that Ironically when i did find the time to even go to One meeting a week, suddenly my time began to open up a little because my thinking began to slow down and somehow since i began to think clearer; i was able to manage my time better as well .. I'm not forcing the idea of a meeting but without the sharing of others' thinking, we only have our one perception and worse .. the addicts to reason things through with; it can get very confusing .. I completely get that .. when I finally got myself through the doors and got a sponsor, I told her I felt so comfortable around my partner from the get go .. it felt like i'd known him my Entire life .. my sponsor told me . you have .. you've known the behavior .. There are so many subconscious connectors to what draws us to our alcoholic partners .. if we're honest with ourselves .. we might come to recognize how very much our partners do have in common behaviors wise with others we've known our whole life.. alcoholism is a Thinking disease .. not just a drinking disease and we're powerless over the effects their thinking and behaviors has over us .. just as the effect our focus on them has on them .. hence confusion being one of those Effects .. Keep coming and sharing .. the best way to help ourselves and others is to first put the helpful tools in us and clear our own thinking .. there's much wisdom to be had and learned; keep sharing .. even if it's the same share over and over .. the answer is the meetings; the solutions are different for us all .. wishing you Much serenity !! Strength & Courage !!!
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Friday 9th of March 2012 08:46:40 AM
Many meetings have childcare -- check in the white pages of the phone book and find the central number of Al-Anon in your area and the person on the other end of the phone will tell you which meetings have childcare. Sometimes it takes a lot of courage to go to the first meeting. Sometimes the meeting isn't a good fit, so they say to try six different ones. There may not be six with childcare but you can try as many as there are. Of course many people find that even the very first one is wonderful. You can talk or not talk, just get a feel for the process and pick up some literature. You will find that many Al-Anoners grew up in alcoholic families. My guess is that even if we hated the way our families were, we didn't learn what the danger signs were, since those things just seemed normal in our households. So we overlook the danger signs and end up in families like our original ones -- until we start our recovery. Because when we change, the whole dynamic changes. Do keep coming back. Hugs.
Thank you! Right now it is hard for me to go to an Al-anon meeting for a couple of reasons. The biggest reason is because I have a full-time job and 2 little children. It is hard for me to attend meetings when I barely have time to pee....my husband is not very helpful with household chores either. Another reason is because this is the first time I am reaching out to someone else about this and am just really starting to believe that he has a problem. I guess I have been in denial after living with an alcoholic father that I could possibly have married an alcoholic husband too. I will keep coming here though and check to see if there are any meetings near me. Where did you guys start? Did you just start going to a meeting? When did you realize that you significant other really had a problem? It is nice to have someone to "talk" with this about.
Depending on the area you are in there might be lunchtime meetings. I talked to my boss about an extended lunch where I made up the time on the day I attended this meeting.
You are in the right place, welcome and keep coming back!
Sometimes you have to let the house go so that you can take care of yourself. Getting to Al Anon meetings will really do you a huge service. Believe me I have only managed to get 1 meeting squeezed into my busy life but now I'm looking for opportunities to get more in because I find them so valuable to my thinking.
I had the same feelings about my AH's drinking like you did. My dad was an alcoholic although he didn't really see it that way. He got meaner and stupider(if that's a word) as he got older. My mother divorced him when I was 18 but he got more abusive to me verbally after that while I was away at college. I definitely had issues with alcohol and my AH did the same as yours. He blamed my issues with my dad's drinking on how I saw his drinking. Well, fast forward to 1 month ago. My AH got his first DUI and he was plastered. He was over .20 which is considered a SUPER extreme DUI in our state and carried mandatory jail time. For the first time since his drinking escalated he is now facing a stark reality. AH and alcohol were not meant to be. I've heard many of the statements that I'm sure you have: I only drink on weekends. I can control it, but when you glare at me when I open the 4th I decide to just keep on going. I'm going to stay away from the hard stuff and just stick to beer because that's what made me drink and drive that night. If you didn't have issues with drinking, I wouldn't start at midnight.
You asked a few questions above: I realized my AH had a problem way back when we were dating. He just didn't have the normal drinking patterns of my other college friends or past boyfriends. He would sit at home and drink a 6 pack alone, while most of my friends kept their drinking to social drinking and I never knew anyone who drank alone except for my father. Then he quit drinking right before we got married so he was sober for the first 15 years of our marriage. He started drinking on the sly about 2 years ago and then about 18 months ago I found a bottle of gin in the trash. And, as for meetings, I just found one that was relatively close by and I made sure my AH could watch our son. Unfortunately, he chose to use those nights as a good get drunk night(maybe subconsciously to piss me off when I came home from my meeting, I don't know) and it was a Thursday night that he got that DUI.
My AH, even now, still blames me despite the DUI. I think he's still in denial about how bad he had gotten. After all, he didn't drink EVERY day nor did he drink all day long. He just had a self-control problem. Hmmm, so now that he's stopped drinking he says he's doing it all by sheer willpower. He says he has awesome willpower and can will himself into just not craving anymore beer, etc. Hey, he did quit for 15 years right? So, I come back with: well, how does that willpower play into the self-control issue of the past few months? You never knew how to stop once you got started. And, for that he has no answer, he just finds a way to turn it around and blame me again. He is not going to AA, nor any type of rehab and he has not told anyone about his DUI. He is letting his pride get in the way just like he did when his drinking got out of control. This is why meetings are so important and I really do hope you find one that you can squeeze into your schedule. Sending you support!
I could have written your post, our experiences are so similar. Only beer, still went to work, never got a DUI, brought home a paycheck etc etc etc.. So he must be OK right? I though so for years... The difference was that he lived for the beer... He went to work to give him finances to buy beer.. he organized his activites aaround beer, beer was the first thing he thought of when he got home and he was always occupied with it.. when he got to drink it next, what was going to get in the way of drinkning it (me and the kids) and how would he get around that... it was his obsession.. And whether he was drinking it or not became my obsession. I became a bit crazy because of it.. Living in craziness cause people to become crazy...
Al anon freed me. Freed me from my obsession from whether he was drinking or not. Freed me to focus on my kids and their well being, instead of focusing on what their father was doing. Freed me from feeling the urge to yell and nag at him infront of the kids, causing tension etc.. I was part of the problem and I was having an impact on my kids as well. They saw me as a nagging and yelling and picking fights with Daddy.. they felt the tension, and when I took myself out of the equation, things got better, calmer. Nothing changes if nothing changes. The change can start with you. Al-anon taught me how to stop being part of the problem.
Al-anon will be critical, so you can make sure you are as healthy as possible for you and for your kids. It will help you live happily, with or with out him, whether he is drinking or not. It will help you detach and not take his drinking personally. It will help you to structure your life to have boundaries to protect you and your children from the effects of his drinking, and at the same time, allow him to feel the full effects of his drinking, and as a by product hopefully come to the realization that his drinking is a problem for him... That was what happened with my husband.. He is now fully in a program and not drinking, one day at a time for a year and a half now. But I did not do it to change him, I did it to change me.
Please attend Face to face meetings, you will be so thankful that you did. Find a meeting with childcare, ask a family member to watch them etc etc.. I told my husband that I was attending because I had a problem with his drinkning, and it was to help me learn to manage it.. Come here and post and read and post some more. We are here to help you.
I have seen this question on this board like 100 times in just a year. When I first came here I thought that a fair portion of people who were Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACOA) were just folks that "had issues" about drinking and were labeling their spouses due to that.
What I have really learned is that an ACOA is actually better suited to spot alcholism. Of course you know what alcholism (or a pattern of destructive drinking at the least) looks like. YOU LIVED IT for 25 years! You practically got an unwanted Ph.D. in alcholism by how you grew up. So....of course you know what you are dealing with and you are not wrong.
None of this is about you being right or wrong though. You sound spot on to me about his pattern of drinking being irresponsible and destructive and on the path towards getting worse. Alanon is not about you being right about all that though. It is about you deciding what YOU are going to do in response to being right and ceasing the wasted energy of convincing him of what the rest of us (normal drinkers or those in recovery) know already.
The serenity is yours to be had but it comes in a round a bout way when you let go of what he is doing and focus on what you can change and control and what is acceptable vs. not in your life. You won't change him. Your mom tried that for 25 plus years with your dad right? Not saying your husband will never stop drinking, but it wont be because of you telling him to if he does.
In short, alanon meetings face to face will help a lot. He can believe what he does is "normal." We know it's not. Adults past the age of 22 (typically college binge drinking age) do not get smashed. Normal drinkers have 1 or 2 drinks and call it a night. This is a fact. You don't need any more validation...the alanon work will focus on what you are going to do about all this.
You have no idea how much all of your replies mean and how helpful to hear that I am not the only one in this situation. Because of all of your posts it gave me the motivation to ignore his remarks to get me upset....he has had 7 beers drinking alone since about 7 (it's 11pm now), so not too bad for a Friday, but just enough to get him pissy with me again. He has been mad at me for 2 weeks now since that day at our friend's house when he got drunk with our kids there, called off work and sent me home alone with the kids so he cold continue drinking. When he told me in front of my two girlfriends that he was calling off work for the next day, I said "seriously? because you can't stop drinking?". It just rolled out of my mouth before I could stop it, and he just can't believe how much I embarrased him in front of our friends. Oh how I wish he could see how much he embarrasses himself everytime he is around them. His friends have yet to say anything to them, and I am just waiting for the day when they get tired of driving his drunk ass home everytime they go out. Funny that he can remain mad at me for 2 weeks for saying that, yet he has said repeatedly that he did NOTHING wrong that night. He just doesn't see it. I am so tired of everything being my fault, really. He makes me think like I am the biggest bitch in the world, but my entire life I have always been a nice person that goes out of my way for other people and doesn't like confrontation. I have been sleeping in the guest bedroom for the past 2 weeks, and I think it is just ticking him off even more. He has been saying the past few days that he has contacted a divorce attorney and for me to just wait...he is getting out of this miserable relationship and he can't stand me. Trust me, I am 99.9% sure that he did not contact a divorce attorney...it is all a mind game because he won't give me what I want.....STOP DRINKING SO MUCH! All of this is because I want him to grow up, take responsibility and stop drinking so much.
MissyPoo, you said that you had kids and have a similar story to mine. How did you protect your kids yet still stay in the same house as him while he was drinking? I feel trapped in this house because I am so unhappy and see him heading down a dangerous path. I don't want my kids to see this, yet if we separated he would no doubt get split custody since he is a good dad and he looks really great on paper...good job, good person, no record. I always want to know what condition he is in before he watches our kids. Last year he had my son in the car and was coming home from his parents house. He got stuck in a dui checkpoint and admitted that he had a couple of beers, so they had to give him a sobriety test. We lived a few minutes away, so since my son was so scared (he was 2 at the time) they let me come get my son before giving him the sobriety test. By the time he took the test he was .01 below the limit. He got very lucky that day because trust me, if he would have gotten a dui while driving our son, I would already be divorced! BUT, .01 below the limit is way too close for comfort. I was still so pissed, but he didn't get it because he said he wasn't drunk and that it was ok. UM, you shouldn't be drinking ANYTHING when you are driving our child in the car. I thought that day scared him enough to not drink and drive, but he has done it many times since then and so far has not gotten a dui. To me, someone that goes through that and STILL drinks and drives has a problem in my opinion.
I just wish he could just see what he is doing to our marriage and to himself and to me.
ilovedogs, your AH sounds just like mine. So far he can stop on his own and did for over a month after New Year's, and then the drinking on the weekends started back up again. He was miserable during the time he was not drinking and it was obvious that it was a struggle for him. He seems to go through phases where he drinks more, which is of course some fault of mine for drinking more, and then he will slow down a little. I guess that is why I continue to struggle with how much of his drinking is his problem and how much of it is my own issues with alcohol. He really messes with my mind, but then I think he has to have a problem because what kind of person is he to use my hard childhood against me. When I met him I confided in him about how I wanted a better life and how I fear for my children following in my father's footsteps since it is a genetic disease. He knows how hard it was for me, and now he uses it against me. That is NOT the man I married. It is just plain cruel. My father developed a heart problem from his lifelong drinking. The doctor's told him to stop or he would die. He came hom from the hospital made ammends with my mom and and I, and then one day my mom found the wine (apparently better for the heart, he said) and it was all downhill from there. He dropped dead in the bathroom exactly one month before my wedding day. Gee, I wonder why I don't want my husband drinking around my children every single weekend. Seems logical, doesn't it? Not to him!
The more you throw logic in the face of the disease of alcholism and/or the alcoholic themself - The more it will result and ridiculous rationalizations and pissy 2 year old temper tantrums. This will leave you feeling like you now have another child in your home instead of a husband. He wont see the writing on the wall until is smacks him in the face so don't expect that what seems perfectly clear to you and the rest of us is going to be clear to him.
Meanwhile, this is making you really really angry and justifiably so. Regardless, that justifiable anger is not fun for you. It takes away from your peace of mind. It gives him all the power over your happiness. It stops you from enjoying some of the things that might still be good. Others here might be better able to tell you how they used alanon to refocus and not just split up.
I just wanted to write a quick note that I understand you are angry and I understand that it's for a good reason - but that still doesn't help you and it hasn't made him stop. Justifiable anger makes us miserable just as much as when we are in the wrong ourselves. This is where the face to face alanon might give you some peace of mind back.
What would you do if he just stopped the arguing and said "You are right. I am a drunk and I will continue acting like this because I like it!" What would you do? That is a really difficult question but it's the one that needs focusing on rather than the merry go round of insanity he has you focused on now.
Anyhow...so sorry this is happening to you and I know this is not what you bargained for when you got married to him.
I just wanted to add that I split up from my alcoholic husband and he is a good dad and all (apart from being an alcoholic, which is a seriously bad-dad thing). But he did not get split custody. A good lawyer will be used to this situation and will know what you have to do to prevent it. My ex sees our son twice a week under controlled conditions (for instance, they walk everywhere instead of taking a car -- possible because I insisted we all live in a walkable neighborhood). The details will differ for your situation, but it can be done. I'm sure lawyers see this all the time. This is not to say whether you should or shouldn't get divorced, but that you shouldn't let this issue stop you from exploring the possibilities if you decide to go in that direction. It is also quite likely, I'm afraid, that your A will be too absorbed by drinking to bother much about the children, however much he loves them when sober.
My lawyer told me that the pattern established early on will probably be followed by the courts. So, for instance, if you separate and you have them with you, and he comes and sees them for two hours every Sunday under controlled circumstances, and that goes on for a year, the courts will be likely to set that as the official pattern. A lawyer can say more. Things will also get easier as the kids get older and are able to tell you what goes on, express their preferences, etc.
Of course protecting the kids is the most important thing, and I'm so glad you're so concerned. It is very hard to protect them from alcoholism when it's up close. Hugs.
Well, he drank a 30 pack of beer just from yesterday, but he doesn't have a drinking problem (yeah right). I went out with my kids and my mom today while AH stayed home. He started drinking at 1pm, and when I got home by 7:30 he was drunk. His brother came over and probably had a few beers (like 1 or 2), but he is definitely not a big drinker, so I know AH drank the majority of the beer. When we got home AH was sitting by our fire pit drinking beerall alone . My son of course wanted to stay by the fire with his dad. I had to get my daughter upstairs and into her jammies because it was her bedtime and I am trying to get them in bed earlier since we are setting our clocks ahead tonight. I went upstairs with my mom and daughter and immediately thought better of leaving my son down there alone with my AH by the fire. I asked my mom to stay for awhile because he won't yell in front of her. I went downstairs and there was my son poking the fire with the poker extremely to close to the fire pit. He is only 3! His face was beat red from being too close to the fire. I grabbed my son and said it was time to go upstairs which immediately set my AH off because of course I am only taking my son upstairs to spite him. He doesn't get that I am legitamately scared that my son will get hurt by this fire with a drunk. AH then proceeds to tell my son, "Daddy wants you to stay, but mommy is making you leave". This of course makes my son cry more and fight me more. Now he is putting our son in the middle of this mess. I stayed calm and just took him upstairs and got him in bed. AH finally put the fire out and came up around 10 (my mom was still here) and went upstairs to the bedroom. I thought he just went up to bed and when I went up to check on my son there is AH lying in bed with my son passed out and snoring. He was fully clothed (jeans, shirt and shoes) and passed out cold in my sons bedroom. I am learning to let him make his own mistakes and not say anything to him anymore, but I CANNOT let my children be the ones he makes his mistakes on. What am I supposed to do about that situation? When he wakes up tomorrow am I supposed to just ignore the entire thing? He can say whatever he wants to me and get a dui or lose his job or sleep in the yard, but I cannot let him hurt our kids physically or emotionally. When I say physically, I just mean that something can happen to my son because he is too drunk to take proper care of him....he is never physically abusive. I just don't know how to approach this tomorrow. I know this is not normal!!!!!!! I think I have been in denial for awhile now that he has a true drinking problem, but as I am sitting here and typing these words and re-reading them, I know that he has a problem. It is his problem, not mine! I am fiercely protective of my kids and I am not keeping these blinders any longer. I have to be smart and do what is best for these children. I have a great job and can manage to find a 2 bedroom place for me and the kids if it comes to that. Yes, we would have to sell our nice 4 bedroom house in the nice neighborhood, but who gives a xxxxt about that when the inside of this house is filled with misery, tension and drunkeness. I honestly HATE him when I see our kids in the middle of his issues and it will be very hard tomorrow when he wakes up and claims that he did nothing wrong and that I was the one overreacting by making our son come upstairs.
Mattie, thank you so much for the custody information. I may just need to look into this so that I know what all my options are at this point. I know that I can't let him have custody of these kids while he is drinking like this, so I can't leave him unless I know that he will not have them on weekends, which is binge drinkiing time for him. I just feel so trapped at this point.
Thanks to all of you for listening and offering kind words and sharing your stories with me. It has been very helpful in making me feel like I am not alone in this and not crazy. HUGS to all of you tonight.
-- Edited by hotrod on Sunday 11th of March 2012 12:24:00 AM
I read your post and could not believe how similar the story was to my life. I started out excatly like you; always questioning; " Does he have a problem?" He would work all week and drink beers on the weekend. I always asked him to choose one weekend night and leave Sunday for family day. He managed to go to work everyday and attend all the kids soccer games, but when the weekend came he felt entitled. I cannot tell you how many Christmas Eves, I put out the gifts, how many small gatherings ended with me driving home, and then the weekend started on Thursday to Sunday. He didn't get drunk at every party, but he was a binge drinker. He always drank until the beer was gone and then went to bed. I too grew up with a Mom who drank beer at night after my father died. I too thought perhaps I was being over sensitive because of my childhood. This pattern went on for years. We have been married for thirty two years and he has stopped and went back to drinking a few times. When he went back he did it by sneaking and lying. He definitely drank more as he continued to drink and there were times he could barely speak. I still have a hard time, but al anon, therapy, and the board help. I know its not easy to leave the kids, but find a friend or family member to help you out. Being a healthy mom will enhance you life to be the best mom you can be. Part of the game, so that they can continue to drink; is to make you believe you have the problem. My husband would feel bad the next day after drinking, we would fight, he would promise to cut back or I would give false threats. Good luck and you took the first step to a healthy you. All you can do is change yourself. Its not an easy road and I know to well the pain the drinking can cause. You are young and have a family that is just starting out. Perhaps you can go together to speak to someone. It will only make your marriage stronger. (If he agrees to go). I too love my husband and he still is a great dad to my adult children. I love him, but I hate the drinking. Keep writing and listen to gut, thats your higher power speaking to you. I think down deep you probably know that he has a drinking problem. Do the work it will be worth it.
I'm sorry this is ongoing, but glad you have so much awareness. It may help you to document everything (in a safe place where he can't find it) -- copy and paste your description off this board, even. When, where, what happened. I even took photos (of his stashes hidden everywhere, etc.), in case there was a custody dispute, though as it happened I never needed them. The sad truth is that splitting up delighted my AH as then he could drink without feeling the need to try to hide it, and he knew that his drinking was becoming harder to hide from me (as the drinking accelerated). Anyway, too much custody would interfere with his drinking. So there's no way my AH would want very much custody.
I also can identify with wanting to confront him after one of the drunken horrible binges. Not saying anything felt like letting him off easy. But of course saying something just led to arguments, denials, and him accusing me of being crazy. It is exactly like arguing with an insane person. It has never made one speck of difference in my experience. I finally settled on just telling my truth, bearing in mind the Al-Anon saying "Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean." So I would say something like, "I can't do [whatever] with you today because, frankly, I'm still very sad and angry about everything that happened when you were drinking yesterday." My AH would just roll his eyes and ignore me. If he'd gotten belligerent I don't think it would have been worth saying it.
But the ultimate thing is that saying something doesn't change anything, and that's what we really want, isn't it -- for something to change. For our children to be safe and our lives to be sane.
What I wish someone had asked me, a long time ago when this hadn't gone on very long, is "What would you do if you knew things were always going to be like this? What decisions would you make?" One of them of course is to go into recovery in Al-Anon. I say I wish someone had asked that question because I spent years thinking that things would turn around and get better, and I'd have been rewarded for holding out for so long. But his entries into recovery were half-hearted, and most of the time he showed no interest in recovery whatsoever. So I was waiting for some solution to come like a thunderbolt out of the blue, without my having to change or making hard decisions. In my case that solution out of the blue never happened. So I pass along my experience for what it's worth.
Thank you so much Mattie. It's funny how spot on you are about our encounters the next morning after a night of drinking. He always thinks I am overreacing, which is exactly how this morning went. This morning he woke up angry with me and said that I just brought our son upstairs to start something with him and that he was watching him and he was fine. Seriously! It is fine to have a 3 year old so close to a fire that it turns his face red and he is poking it with a stick. Really? That's ok? I just simply said to him that I don't care what he believes or what he thinks, protecting my son from him when he is drinking is my only concern. If that makes me the b!tch, then so be it!!! I honestly can't believe for what a great father he is when he is sober and how much he loves his kids that he can honestly be mad at me this morning for taking him away from that situation. He may just be in more denial than I even realized. He told me this morning my dad really screwed me up with drinking (my dad was an alcoholic until it killed him). It is amazing how he can turn everything around and make it completely my fault. Alcoholics have a true talent at being able to do that! I did not argue with him this morning like it seemed he wanted, and I just simply said that I don't care what he does, but I will not let our son be in the middle of it. If he doesn't get that, then it's his problem. I have realized that any 'normal' drinker would have woken up the next morning and apologized up and down for being drunk in front of our son and not realizing that he could have gotten hurt by the fire. A 'normal' person would have understood that I was just doing what I had to do to keep my son safe, and that I wasn't just looking for a way to agitate him. For some reason now he thinks that everything I do or don't do is just to spite him. He has gotten really pathetic...not sure how much longer I can stay in this house with him.
Living with this diesase causes every member in the family to become infected. Alanon suggests that you make no major life changes until you have given alanon a try for at least 6 months.
The reason for this is that within that time frame you will have a support system in place that will help to break the isolation and you will develop a new clarity on your situation. New options will become clear and the road ahead will open for you.
What am I going to do? I feel so lost and feel like this situation is not in my control at all. Interestingly enough, he only had a few beers in him tonight when he did this, but may just be hung over from yesterday. I have been ignoring his actions and not letting him get me agitated with the things he is saying to me. After I took my son away from him last night because he was too drunk, this morning he claims it is all my fault and I am just being spiteful. He spent all day being extremely nasty to me and the more I didn't respond the nastier he got. I spent the evening playing with my kids, making dinner and doing other household stuff and just ignoring him. As I was putting my daughter in bed this evening he came in and threw his wedding ring at me. I simply ignored it and didn't respond at all. As I was ironing my clothes for work tomorrow he came in with our 3 year old son and said to him, "when daddy isn't around anymore, you know it's mommy's fault". My son started crying saying he didn't want him to leave, and I begged AH to please stop doing this to our child, and he said that he just hates me so much and it's my fault. So, now it's my fault that he said that to our son. Are you kidding me? There is NOTHING that is not my fault. I regained my compusure and left the room, but he knew he got a rise out of me at that point, which seems is what he was trying to do the whole weekend. Now what do I do? This situation is so messed up and it is absouletly breaking my heart to see him indirectly hurting our son to hurt me. He is actually starting to scare me with the things he is saying. It is like he is out of his mind. I don't know what to do or think at this point. I don't know how to handle this, I really don't. How is it that he can't see how very wrong it is to do that to our child. No matter how mad or frustrated or hurt I am by AH I NEVER say anything bad about him to our son. It is just not right. I don't know if he is just so flustered because I am ignoring his behavior and refuse to engage in an argument with him at this point or what it is, but I can't keep letting him say things like that to our son. i just don't know what to do.....
