The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Sally, how has that worked for you in the past? Awareness is one thing, acceptance is another. Then I get an opportunity to do something different...
The problem was never my unfortunate luck. Not when the common denominator is ME. The universe always gives me choices. You don't mention what your recovery looks like to date, are you active in recovery, or just doing what you have always done?
Thank you for the reminder that I need to keep working my program so that I can see my part in my patterns. I am grateful that I learned to watch a man's actions, not rely on his words. The man who is currently giving you attention, this is a man proving that he has no boundaries since he is going after a married woman....
I would not want that man. I want a good man.
-- Edited by glad lee on Thursday 16th of February 2012 01:32:01 PM
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
I remember the fear of telling him I was going to al-anon meetings. Then I realized I was a big girl. An adult doesn't need a man's permission to take care of herself. So I went. And he began to love it and even encourage me to go because... well... it got me off his back, lol
You are right, there can be an enormous temptation to fill that big empty hole in me..... with another person. But my history proves that my "solutions" don't work so well for me, so I KNOW that isn't the answer and not to go there... ever again.
Today, I know that no human power can relieve me, I need a Power greater. My brain only knows what it knows, for some reason, and it works much better for me to get with a power greater.... which is a phone call to my sponsor, or a meeting... all those things that help me to get another perspective. My brain cannot be trusted.
I'm sure you've heard the suggestion... try al-anon for 6 months before you make any major decisions in your life. Al-anon helps me to KNOW MYSELF so that I can stop harming myself, it helps me to own my responsibility to myself, and for my life. It's really not because I happen to be such a sweet person, wanting to take care of people... I attracted sick people because I was sick too.
Don't want to do that anymore, so I keep coming back. And I really hope you do too. ((hugs))
-- Edited by glad lee on Thursday 16th of February 2012 04:16:46 PM
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
I am currently a little over a year into my 3rd marriage. The pattern is repeating itself yet again. In each case, they had drinking/controlling issues. Seems that I was okay with it in the beginning, but as time went on it became more and more unacceptable to me. I confronted and demanded changes, nothing happened, I became more and more unhappy, then I cheated, then I left.
The only thing different now is that my AH PROMISED to change without me begging or threatening. He didn't. I married him anyways (WTH was I thinking???). Then I started begging and threatening. Here I am again at the end of my rope. He is not changing and I don't think I can take it anymore.
Now there is another man showing me positive attention. He tells me how nice I look, takes time to ask how my day is and really LISTENS, and even gave me a very small, yet nice flower bouquet for Valentines day. (Well the day after, but still)... A huge contrast from the yelling, ranting, belittleing I get from home and the only hint at anytihng even remote on Valentines day was a suggestion that I buy us steaks to make for dinner...which I didn't because I did not even want to talk to him that day due to a drunken rage the night before.
So I find myself thinking about the nice guy more and more, and wanting to be around him more and more. And maybe push the envelope just a little bit and see what might happen if I open the door just a hair?
I know it's not the right thing to do, but man, it just is sooooo tempting.
I can relate to what you are going though. As silly as it sounds, the words in a song snapped me back into reality. They were "when flattery leads to compromise, the end is always near" and " the journey from your mind into your hands is shorter than you're thinking". It helped me, maybe it will help you too. You know what is right and wrong, it's a matter of making the right outweigh the wrong.
I have had some great revelations looking at my behavior patterns and actually thinking about my part in things rather than using victimization and martyrdom. What I realized is that the old saying is true.. no one can make me happy until I learn to make myself happy. Every day now I work on making myself happy, taking care of me, and applying my program into every day life. When things are clearly out of my control I hand them to my higher power.
Sally, glad you are reaching out and talking about the realizations you are having. Hope you keep exploring yourself and posting. I also hope you get to face to face al-anon meetings. They have really given me hope.
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Michelle!
No one can take away your peace of mind unless you let them.
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, the other guys were nice in the beginning, too. And most likely my motivation for writing was to get some support for taking the right path. Yes, I know what is right and wrong, but the right way is not always the easy way...and the wrong way can be so much fun! To be fair...the other guy is not really going after me...just being freindly, but has not crossed any lines...but if I gave him an inkling that I would be open for something, I think he would pursue it...I could be wrong, maybe he is just trying to be nice and in his mind it is innocent flirting. So how do I get him off my mind and focus on what needs focus?
Early in my adult life after a 2nd or 3rd painful break-up, my Mom said to me that in my relationships I have "Broken Sparrow" syndrome...always seem to be drawn by & to people that need fixing. I guess that is the whole co-dependency thing in a nutshell???
The common denominator is ME. Wow, it is, isn't it? How can I be the broken one?? I am the level-headed, taking care of business, even keel (most of the time), keeping it all together, non-dependant, responsible, fix everything person. UGH!
As far as my recovery. I have read posts on here extensively and read and learned alot about detachment, co-dependency, boundaries. I have admitted that I am powerless...at least I tell myself that and I am working on that, however, there are still areas that I find myself still trying to hold onto the power. I have not been to a face to face meeting, but I have been wanting to, but somewhat afraid of AH's reaction if I tell him and leaving and not telling him where I'm going...well that won't be pretty. Trying to figure out where to start working on me. Learning about myself and finding out WHO I AM. What makes me happy?
I have always thought of myself as an independant person, that and don't need a man in my life to be happy. After the initial new relationship bliss, it has been my experience that men cause misery. I have been on my own before for long periods of time but did not work on me during that time and have not found my happiness.
I hear a great deal of wisdom and acceptance in your posting. You have made great strides with the insights you have developed.
Please remember that If you live or have lived with the disease you deserve to attend meetings and recover.
Since you have lived with this disease in previous relationship you can easily tell hubby that you need support to recover from past injury.
You are correct the recovery way is not an easy road but with the support of otheres who are walking the same road and a Higher Power it is well worth your effort.
It is true that we keep repeating the same pattern until we learn new ways of responding to life. I too felt I was very independent and needed no one.
Today, I have learned how to have interdependent relationships , having practiced this in alanon and found how healthy and joyful this can be.
We have all been hesitant about attending our first meeting so just remember we were all new at one time too You will be welcomed and heard and before long know the peace.
"Al-anon helps me to KNOW MYSELF so that I can stop harming myself, it helps me to own my responsibility to myself, and for my life. It's really not because I happen to be such a sweet person, wanting to take care of people... I attracted sick people because I was sick too." glad lee
It was hard for me to go to my first meeting, because I was afraid of what my AH would say or feel. Things, however, got so bad, I just told him and went. What a difference it made for me and the dynamic between me and my AH. Yes, it was uncomfortable and scary and awkward, but I realized that I was being so careful to not upset my AH, but was he being careful about upsetting me? Not really. I encourage you to go so you can reap the full benefits of what you have already put so much effort into learning and absorbing. For the first time in my life, I am not looking to a man to rescue me. It is time for me to rescue myself, and with the help and support of Al Anon, I finally am. You do not need to suffer this alone. So when you are ready, I am sending you courage (to change the things you can). So much support coming your way!
Sally... I am now in my 5th long term (?) relationship including two marriages.
This one started to go the same way with addiction and me wanting to leave etc etc. The third man I lived with I left via an affair, the fourth man I lived with I left via an affair. The first man I lived with cheated on me. The 3rd, and 4th man I lived with was cheating on me and I on him. All of them had addiction/mental issues.
Welcome to my world.. or you welcome me to yours hahahaha.
This time... I looked at the pattern just as you are. The thought of the effort that an affair takes made me feel exhausted. The mental process, the feeling good when with the other person and bad when with my partner. My partner became worse in my mind and that made me feel better about having the affair... it is exhausting stuff.
This time... I decided that it was ME that had to change. I am the common denominator in all my 'affairs'. That wonderful feeling that I got from the 'new' man, the new experience, the neurotransmitter influence of feel good stuff, the hormone changes, that wonderful feeling of being appreciated and wanted.... it is such a wonderful feeling isn't it.. but then what happened every time... it turned out the same.. and I went searching again, even if not consciously searching, I was open to suggestion of it.
i had to stop the pattern. I put stopgaps in place to avoid the temptation. It is like a sexual addiction, I treated it as such. I ceased responding to the flirtiness and returing the flirtiness. Its difficult to do. I started to look inward and try to find out how I could feel good for myself, and not have the influence of outside forces to make me feel good. I can't find happiness out there... no one can make me feel happy bar myself. I choose now, to find the happiness not in the arms of a man... except my husband when it is offered.
I accept I can't always get that when the addict comes to visit our house, but when my husband is there.... I can have an affair with him. He is pretty cool. (I see my husband as two people at times, one of them is the addict).
Most of all, I have to get to know me away from the attention and the mad rush of hormones of early romance.
For me, I would try to reword the sentence you had in your post..... "So I find myself thinking about (the nice guy) MY NEEDS more and more, and wanting to be around (him) ME more and more. And maybe push the envelope just a little bit and see what might happen if I open the door just a hair AND SEE WHO I AM WAITING ON THE OTHER SIDE?
I should have read all the responses before replying hahahaha.
You have the ESH and you said yourself all the stuff that is in my post....
I would just like to add
You said something about innocent flirting...
In my opinion... there is no such thing.
For me that is a danger sign. Innocence is easily lost. The line becomes more blurred. Its like the alcoholic having one innocent drink.
Giving a married woman a flower the day after Valentines Day.... for me, a line has been crossed.
My stopgap is this.... if something is done or said, that I would not feel comfortable sharing with my husband, OR, if my or the mans wife wouldnot like to be involved.... that is a boundary crossed. If I would not talk about it freely in front of the partner(s), then it is not innocent flirting.
I say this just to maybe assist you in making up your mind about what to focus on. Your second post had a hint of uncertainty about it.
You have the awareness this time around and that is a huge difference.
What I'm hearing is that your marriage is becoming untenable because of the addiction/control issues. That is certainly understandable. Staying in a relationship that has no hope and causes misery is never a requirement.
You have no power over how he behaves. But how you get out of the relationship is something you do have power over.
The appearance of this new man is a nice man who makes a caring gesture on Valentine's Day. But we know two things: 1) he's a man who wants a woman to cheat on her husband (he's okay with deception), and 2) he's a man who is attracted to someone who's not fully available. My experience is that those men feel good only with people who are not fully available, because of their own problems with intimacy.
The part of you that wants a caring relationship would naturally feel attracted to someone who expressed caring. But it's so easy to look at that part and disregard the rest of the information. Been There Done That.
My suspicion is that there is indeed a man out there somewhere who could care for you honestly and healthily, but that such a man wouldn't come forward until you were free of your previous commitment.
Yeah...I've leaned to that broken sparrow syndrome too. Like Linda (and you it sounds like) my relationship history reads pretty similar. I think this current relationship is now my 5th long term relationship and I am only 39. One difference I can tell you is that the relationship I am currently in is more satisfying, open, honest, romantic....all the above and that is largely due to the fact that I forced myself to live alone, work on myself, attend meetings, get a sponsor, do stepwork for 2 years before plunging into another relationship with a broken person. (I did still date and had some dysfunctional little trysts in the meanwhile - I'm not perfect lol). We only attract what we are and, while you are not an alcoholic, that "broken sparrow" part of you that wants sick guys because it is endearing how much they need you at first and say they will change for you....that part is the part that is as busted as they are.
You are still young and some serious work on you will pay dividends in the long run whatever you decide about your relationship.
Ending a relationship, especially a marriage is not every easy or pretty. There is a more mature and adult way to go about it though. You lay your cards on table and say what's not working...give things an opportunity to work out and if they don't, then you call it quits before moving on.
It concerns me that you can't even say you are going to an alanon meeting for fear of how he would react, but you would consider cheating and not really think about how he would react to that. Let him step up and be a man. At least give him the opportunity. You are really going to alanon for you okay? BUT - If he can't handle what it says about him, than that is HIS problem and probably just another one of hundreds of clues that perhaps he really does have a drinking problem. That part is not on you though.
Hi Sally! It is great you came here. You definitely have some great insight and there is some great ESH responses on here. It has been a couple weeks since I've been able to logon and I've missed coming here. You can surely pursue that nice guy and get sucked into the highs & lows of that situation and get some distraction from your current spouse. The adrenaline from that could re-energize you and it could get you through the next few months/years, etc. But, the deep down truth, and I think you already know this, is that guy would only serve as a distraction. I've got lots of distractions I've used - compulsive cleaning, shopping, controlling others, obsessing on others opinions of me, work-a-holism, etc. All those things can keep our minds busy on other things and prevent us from hanging out with our ownselves for a while. An affair could be a release valve for tension. But the problem with release valves is once the pressure is alleviated a bit, the door closes and all seems OK again on the surface, however underneath the cycle begins again - the pressure builds up again.
I hope that you do choose to go to Al-Anon. It can be completely life changing, although it takes a while and can be so scary. If you choose to go, you can use the energy you would have to expend in sneaking around in an affair towards Al-Anon and learning about yourself instead of trying to get to know some new guy. Sneak off to meetings instead of sneaking to meet that guy. The payoff for the affair might be short term gratification and excitement but the payoff for Al-Anon can mean gaining your whole life, which can be better than imaginable and a lot more exciting - a true treasure that cannot be taken away from you. Whatever you choose, I'm sending much love & support your way!
Thank you all for your support. You are not telling me anything I don't already know regarding the other guy...at least I know it in the back of my mind...that little voice that I so much like to ignore. But hearing it from all of you REALLY re-affirms that and helps me to THINK instead of just ACT on impulse.
I have printed out a meeting schedule and promise myself I will go to one of the meetings no later than Tuesday of next week.
I do not think I can salvage my relationship with my AH and I this point I really, REALLY don't want to. He has started to get physical with me and that is a deal breaker for me. Plus he called my 13 year old daughter that big ugly nasty c word that no woman wants to hear, and when I told him about it when he was sober, he showed no remorse at all...just told me to get over it. But I can't.
Again I appreciate the support and feedback and thank you all immensely.
I think one of the first breakthroughs for me was to learn how to separate myself from my husband in an emotional and mental way.
My worthiness is not found in another man.
I did that here. In some of my early posts I think I talk about the revelation that I am NOT my husband. I am ME. I know that sounds sooooo simple but it was a massive start for me.
I aligned my own self worth in accordance with his actions. If he smoked pot or slept around or wanted something 'extra' in our sex life, then that must mean it is my fault and I am responsible.
What a croc... I get that now. Its still very new to me, but it was one of the biggest breakthroughs I made.
I have the guys here, like Pinkchip, to thank for that revelation of life.
Al Anon helps with all our 'affairs' Keep coming back
Sounds like the goose is cooked. Supporting you in whatever you decide and going to meetings will help regardless of whether you split with him or not.
