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I'm in urgent need for advice as I am in despair and dont know where to ask Im in a serious relationship with an alcoholic for almost 8 months. He has been sober for 30 years now and is very active in AA, meaning he has to go to at least 3-4 meetings a week aside from sponsoring other alcoholics, which will take time from me and a future family if we get married. He has said that he is so much a better person now than he was when he was not into AA.
Now were at a difficult time to decide whether to end the relationship or not because he has told me that AA will ALWAYS be his TOP priority, and NOT ME or our future children, because AA saved his life among other things, and that I will just have to accept that.
He has said that his 1st marriage failed when he prioritized his wife and family, and not attending meetings or doing AA stuff as he should have and so he doesnt want that to happen again. I could not make myself agree If Im going to be his wife I should be his 1st priority along with our future children, if any. Im not an alcoholic and I dont fully understand the disease and from the little that I know, I would not also deprive him of the benefits nor take AA away from him because that is whats helping him; but to be told THAT or feel I am just going to be 2nd, doesnt seem to make sense or even sound right.
I am in love with this man but I am scared about the quality of our married life or how our family life would look like if he wouldnt be home so many nights a week or maybe even when I need him, because AA is priority. Its bad enough that he is a very busy man at work and have to go out of town some. Will I be raising our child by myself more often than not? Do alcoholics in AA really make AA their 1st priority over his/her spouse and children? Am I wrong to want to be assured I and his children are his priority? Am I being selfish?
Oh dear I would dearly love for my mr-ex-ah to tell me his sobriety was the most important thing and I would GLADLY give that top priority if it meant i got to have the man i fell in love with back - you haven't lived through the nights he's put drinking at the top of his priority list.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
I would recommend going to an open AA meeting and finding out what it means when someone finds sobriety. It is not an easy road to walk.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
It sounds as if he needs to make AA his top priority if he is to stay sober. And believe me, if he doesn't stay sober, everything else gets very bad, usually very fast. Without sobriety you don't have a hope of a healthy relationship. It sounds as if he let go off AA and has a relapse, or strong danger of a relapse, in his marriage before. He is wise to try to head that off.
That said, a good relationship requires care and attention from both people. It may be that he doesn't have that much to give. If he also has a busy work life and has to travel sometimes, he may not have very much left over for a relationship. That's not good or bad; that's just what it is. Not all people are able to offer what's needed in a relationship. It may be that that's the situation in your relationship.
What I've found is that hoping that things will change is a path to conflict. If things stayed the way they are right now with him, would that be a happy relationship for you? If not, it may be time to think about moving this into the friendship realm. Eight months is very early on in a relationship. We people who tend to get involved with alcoholics (drinking or, sometimes, sober) tend to jump feet-first into relationships. I always used to say, "Good! We're together! Signed, sealed, delivered!" But the first year is about getting to know someone, especially in months 6-12 when the honeymoon period starts to wear off. That's when everyone shows who they really are. And who they really are may not be bad -- it just might not be compatible.
I hope you'll think carefully about whether this is the kind of situation you'd be happy in. It sounds as if his committment to AA is strong and he's found out what happens when he scales back. If he's not willing to make a change, or doesn't think he should, that's very valuable information to have.
Aloha tand.... and welcome to the board. The very best suggestion which will help you is Pushka's period. Your relationshiop has 30 years of recovery on you...He knows the disease of alcoholism and addiction and what he has done to trump this fatal disease. Had he not arrested his disease over the last 30 years the chances are beyond real that you would never had met him. The man he is today is a miracle from where he was 30 years ago and you don't get to experience the pain of what it is like to be his "ex"-wife. If she could give you her experiences of what it was like back then you might face the fear of "if he ever goes back out".
Alcoholism is a Fatal disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions; it is spiritual recovery not religious however if he doesn't practice the program religiously he will polarize back to where he came from. That is the nature of alcoholism and chemical addiction. Are you selfish? ...we all are to some point or other...we want what we want when we want it and if we don't get it we tantrum. One of the assets of recovery that your man has had the blessed benefit of is that today he has a power greater than alcohol in his life. It is also a power greater than anything else that would cause him to loose his sobriety...which isn't so much being dry as it is being balanced on all four levels...and...insuring his recovery works by giving it away to others very much like all of the membership of MIP/Al-Anon that is here to support you.
When my alcoholic/addict wife was deep into AA; one night after a meeting she came home and asked me if I thought she was alcoholic. I was jealous of AA and anyone who participated in her time when I wasn't. While I didn't intend on sending her "back out" again to practice her disease I told her "no you're not an alcoholic" while I had no idea what one was, what they looked like, what the disease was or anything...not even my own alcoholism and of course the outcome was that she went back out and started drinking and using again at the point where she had stopped and our whole life...kids and all came to an end which might have been rescueable had I done the opposite. The absolutley insane consequense to that for all of us was a nightmare.
I got into Al-Anon and then AA also; today I am a "double" and while that marriage and family went into the garbage disposal the one I am currently in has lived beyond the first two combined. My first wife was an addict also. What did I do? What happened? Where was I led to by a Power Greater than myself?...just like Pushka suggested...the face to face meetings of the Al-Anon Family Groups. Go and give yourself ample amount of time...one day at a time...to learn before you project or fortune tell the future. None of us know how the future comes out after we make changes and rely on a Power Greater than ourselves.
Wow. Alot of us got married and found out drinking was WAY more important than us.
When I insisted my ex choose between alcohol and me, she answered by moving out and getting a job as a bar-tender.
In a 'healthy' relationship, both partners encourage each other to pursue worthwhile and meaningful things in their lives. Sometimes this means separate activities. But this doesn't even need to be the case with A.A. and Al-Anon.
A.A. goes beyond just not drinking. It is a program of spiritual growth and mental well-being. Being physically, mentally and spiritually healthy is always a good thing making it possible for a person to be able to give more, not less, to a relationship.
Al-Anon is also a program of spiritual growth. There is a lot that can be learned by attending Al-Anon meetings. I'd suggest you give it a try.
I've been reading for many months now and have not really logged in as I have felt I had nothing positive to say. As I was reading through my email I saw the word Urgent in all caps and felt my heart stop. After actually reading I wanted to cry. I am with "likemyheart" I would gladly and without hesitation give up my place as prioroty, (if I had it) for my AH to even attempt a life through AA. He has gone several times on a few seperate occasions over the past 7 years but then stops stating it just isn't for him. If you have time perhaps reading several posts on this safe haven for most will help you in your decisioin. If nothing else it sure will make you think. See what the life is like for those of us who live with an active alcoholic, It may just make you sit back and say WOW! Good luck to you in whatever you decide. :)
-- Edited by michellelong on Monday 30th of January 2012 02:56:37 PM
I think it is fabulous that you came here to ask questions and do some research! When I read your post, I thought of a line in the big book of AA that says,
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
And here you are investigating this whole AA thing. That is outstanding ((my friend))
For me, AA and al-anon have become my spiritual home, and I believe that is all your boyfriend is saying, that God comes first. That is the way things... especially relationships, work out best for me. When I get my spiritual food, I am a better person in my relationships, God gives me that power, I just show up with willingness, God supplies the power.
I'll paint a little picture for you, my sponsor and her husband have lots of fellowship potluck dinners in their home, it's wonderful. They have made the program their life, they love it, and people love them.
Don't let his words make you afraid. It sounds to me like he knows what he has to do to be the best person he can be. This is the way it works for me too. ((hugs))
-- Edited by glad lee on Monday 30th of January 2012 07:36:09 PM
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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.
It seems to me that my AH has only two choices for his top priority; to drink or to be sober. The only way he's been able to stay sober is to be very active in AA. I went through 30 years of his making drinking his #1 priority, and it was a nightmare. I'll take the number 2 spot if that's what it takes to keep him sober. It helped me to learn everything I could about alcoholism and to become active in al-anon. The book "Marriage on the Rocks" by Janet Woititz is a book I go back to again and again. Coming here is always a big help, too.
Good luck to you, please keep coming back!
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"The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time."
sounds to me like you are both using AA as an excuse not to be in this relationship ...
my husband has been in AA 12 years - he attends 4-5 meetings/week, has 1-3 sponsees at a time, spending a minimum of 1 hour/week with each, as well as spending a minimum of 1 hour/week with his sponsor, and he also serves at the district level, totaling 2-10 hours/month ... I have been in Al-Anon almost a year - I attend 2-4 meetings/week, meet with my sponsor 2-4 hours/week, and I'm also active at the district level, spending 3-20 hours/month. we both work.
neither of us have ever had to say to the other what our TOP priority is. we each LIVE it. part of the AA/Alanon program is relationships ... by placing our programs as priority, we are also prioritizing our relationship with each other.
what I "hear" in your post is that your man is using AA as an excuse not to be in a relationship that will require work, sacrifice, compromise ... he wants the good, easy times without the problems, tough times. I also "hear" you looking for a way out of this relationship and using his relationship with AA as the thing to blame. You seem to want more than he has to offer and, instead of dealing with the reality of the situation, both of you are looking for something to blame.
what I would do: get REAL with each other! something has to have gone right for you to have been in this relationship together for 8 months ... what is it? then find out: what are HIS expectations of the relationship? AND what are YOUR expectations of the relationship? if they vary too widely for compromise to occur, accept it and move on!
hope this helps ... God Bless You
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There are people in your life whom you unknowingly inspire simply by being you.
My own experience in recovery looks something like this:
God first, me second, family, friends and other relationships third, and everything else underneath that.
For me, "God" or "Higher Power" means spirituality and doing what I can to put my spirituality first. A lot of the time, that means my attending Al-Anon meetings, doing service work for the program and experiencing fellowship with my fellow Al-Anon members. That is a spiritual practice for me. Other things may include reading spiritual literature, meditating, journaling, etc.
I come second, and really, that's a pretty CLOSE second to God. My relationship with my Higher Power is one that my HP is a part of me, so when I take care of me, I'm also taking care of my relationship with my Higher Power. Taking care of me just so happens to mirror very closely to taking care of my spirituality. The same things I do for my spirituality fill ME as a person, too. Of course other things come into the picture, as well... a day at the spa, having fun with friends, watching a good movie, a hot aroma-therapy bath, getting exercise, plenty of sleep, etc.
Everything else HAS to come after God and me. It's not a matter of my being selfish. It's a matter of taking good care of myself and making sure I'm in good maintenance because if I'm not, I can guarantee you that I won't be much good to anyone outside of me. Doesn't mean I don't love the other people in my life. Quite the contrary, when I'm taking good care of myself, I feel so filled with love that I am more than happy to share the love with others with gratitude in my heart.
I don't know the full story of your AA partner. Your message is just a paragraph from what would be a thousand-page novel of his life. I can say that from my own experience, with recovering alcoholics in AA, their spirituality has to come first, too - and like me, a lot of them practice their spirituality with AA. The crux is that with alcoholics, if they put other people, places or things before their spirituality and themselves, they tread a dangerous line that may eventually send them back to drinking.
Other members here have mentioned they'd rather live with the challenge of their partner putting AA first instead of live with the challenge of the alcoholic putting the bottle first. I think in all honesty either scenario is a challenge if I'm not working a program of recovery myself. My own illness is one of relationships where I've always put others before me or always expected others to put me before them. It's not fair either way. Al-Anon helped me to finally get my priorities straight.
I'd encourage you to try out some Al-Anon meetings. Try six as close together as possible before you decide if the program is for you or not. I do wish both you and your AA partner happiness in whatever your future relationship choices may be.
It sounds as if you have received a great deal of experience on the subject of a partner's participation in AA..
In reading your posting . I feel that you do truly love this person and do not have any understanding of the disease of alcoholism. Like most people you are frightened by the marriage commitment and are exploring the possibility of "Will this Work" Good for you.
?
You are asking a valid question Can you accept being married to a recovering alcoholic? He has already explained that in order to have any type of relationship, he must put AA first in his life . AA has saved his life literally and will continue to do so as long as he maintains active participation. He learned this painful lesson after he lost his first marriage
You have been in this relationship for 8 months and have found a person that you love and respect. This is the same person who attends AA and does all the recovery work he told you about. He has found time to fall in love with you and you have felt special or you would not love him. I am puzzled as to why you think this will change or why you think that when someone marries then some major shift must happen.
In order for you to decide if you can stay in a relationship with this man I suggest that you try attending alanon face to face meetings in your community. The number can be located in the white pages of the telephone directory. I do be live you will find the answer that you are looking for
I did not read shares before me because I wanted to have an open mind when answering this:
Okay. I understand what you are saying because I was once very uneducated about the baffling and cunning disease of addiction/alcoholism. His program does need to be #1 and that includes in it his Higher Power. Why does his program need to be #1? Its like that saying about the airplane crashing. You have to breathe first before you can help anyone else. Its a real disease and its mission is to overpower and kill and it will if the addict/alcoholic does not feed his soul and spirit with meetings, prayer, literature, and yes, the twelfth step.. helping others. So I hear what you're saying because I used to be there.. "I should be #1".. and in that I put him at #1 and what that did for all of us was put not needed expectations, limitations, and pressure on each other. My husband ended up resorting back to his drugging ways and eventually overdosed... he almost died but is now in AA NA again. I am so happy for him. He goes to meetings every night. For me now my HP is #1 always. My husband is high on my list but without al-anon I am nothing, I am lost. I need al-anon like I need air to breathe and water to drink.. because what I was doing before, putting another human being #1 and allowing my happiness to be dependent on others.. that did not get me anywhere but unhealthy. Look at this differently, as in.. if your bf had diabetes and he put you before he took his insulin and ate healthy.. what would happen? Just because aa will be #1 does not mean you (and your future family) will not be important to him. You would be so important to him because he would be working a program that allowed him to live that healthy life. So proud of your bf and his 30 yrs, that is beautiful!! Ultimately you have to make that decision on your own but any woman would be lucky to have an avid member of AA who is really working their program.. Devoted AA members are usually very spiritual and kind hearted, giving, and they take their inventory and should be working to be a better them. My advice for you is to research addiction and alcoholism.
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Michelle!
No one can take away your peace of mind unless you let them.
I would like to share what was pointed out to me some time ago, when I was in love, but trying to find my way around making a true committment and it appeared she was too. I was told to open the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous and read page 257 (fourth edition), from the chapter The Man Who Mastered Fear.
"Twenty-odd years ago, I made a mess out of my one and only marriage, It was therefore not extraordinary that I should shy away from any serious thought of marriage for a great many years after joining A.A. Here was something requiring a greater willingness to assume responsibility and a larger degree of cooperation and give and take than even business requires of one. However, I must have felt, deep down inside myself, that living the selfish life of a bachelor was only half living. By living alone you can pretty much eliminate grief from your life, but you also eliminate joy. At any rate the last great step toward a well-rounded life still lay ahead of me. So six months ago I acquired a ready-made family consisting of one charming wife, four grown children to whom I am devoted and three grandchildren. Being an alcoholic, I couldn't dream of doing anything by halves! My wife, a sister member in A.A., had been a widow nine years and I had been single eighteen years. The adjustments in such a case are difficult and take time, but we both feel that they are certainly worth it.We are both depending upon God and our use of the Alcoholics Anonymous program to help us make a success of this joint undertaking.
The underlined sentences are what caught me, my attention.
Anyways, for what its worth, you are not the only one who has had to deal with sobriety and AA being the center piece and priority in a relationship. Why? Because without it, chances are very good there isn't a relationship anyways. An active alcholic can be under the same roof, but it doesn't mean anyone is home, or present and available to others under the same roof.
As a priority, it might be better said... if the choice is taking a drink or losing you, i am going to keep my sobeity first, because if anything jeapardizes it, I won't be able to keep what I fear losing any ways. I drink my drivers license, my loved ones, my jobs, my homes, my respect, my dignity... and I drink my relationships. So, my sobriety and AA activity has to remain the priority in my life, in order for me to have one.
John
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" And what did we gain? A new life, with purpose, meaning and constant progress, and all the contentment and fulfillment that comes from such growth."
You have been in this relationship for 8 months and have found a person that you love and respect. This is the same person who attends AA and does all the recovery work he told you about. He has found time to fall in love with you and you have felt special or you would not love him. I am puzzled as to why you think this will change or why you think that when someone marries then some major shift must happen.
Thank you everybody for answering. Each of you has given me valuable advice but I don't know how to reply to all of you because this is really my first time to write something on a forum and I only did out of desperation.
I guess because I didn't do my homework when I got into this relationship, I'm fearful. My boyfriend has explained to me a few times - and I hope I got it right - that he still has "alcoholism" even though he hasn't touched a drink. When he is short-fused, impatient or not nice to me, he says it's part of it and he has to work on it. He had told me he detested the nasty cruel man he was before and that I would run for the hills.
When I said that I like that he has his religion, values and convictions about certain things that are important to me, he said I don't have those - it's AA that's making it possible for me to have those. I was puzzled and in my ignorance, I did question that perhaps "you're just making an excuse of the nasty you or personality by blaming alcoholism." I don't understand, so this man has no values at all, like he is an empty vessel with no convictions or principles? That he appears then to have 2 personalities and the good guy having/maintaining values has to depend on something external or outside of him? Will my real BF please raise his hand? I have noticed now that sometimes (even though he is the sweetest loving man most of the time), there are occasions where I feel that I'm walking on eggshells around him.
We have discussed marriage - that's the reason why we are now discussing our issues. I was really concerned that because of his frequent absence from the home, we cannot grow and bond more intimately as a couple and will just drift apart for lack of time and I'd be raising my child by myself while he is busy all the time. I guess I am just really more afraid that he can change anytime and become nasty during the marriage and I'm not sure I can handle that when all I really want is a happy peaceful marriage for keeps. We will be making the decision soon that is the reason I had to seek advice urgently so there will be no regrets.
YOu know what... this caught my attention too... perhaps there is more to his statement. and maybe you are right. I will have to reflect on that before we talk. Thanks so much!
. I guess I am just really more afraid that he can change anytime and become nasty during the marriage and I'm not sure I can handle that when all I really want is a happy peaceful marriage for keeps. We will be making the decision soon that is the reason I had to seek advice urgently so there will be no regrets.
Hi
I understand what you are saying. We all want to make the right choice when choosing a marriage partner. You could, like may of us marry a man show has no AA affiliation, drinks moderately and then turn around some day and find he is an Alcoholic with all the dreadful results associated with this. There are no guarantees in life.
. Your boyfriend has been very honest with you and on the plus side he is working on developing his spiritual nature and has faced the monster within He is using AA to nourish his spiritual side.
In order to help make your decision I suggest that you try attending alanon meetings and see if you can develop new tools so that you would not need to feel as if you are walking on eggshells around him
I know that I am probably screaming to be banned from this forum by saying this, but I don't agree with the AA philosophy/beliefs. I have been through a rehab system that preached the 12 steps. However, at the end of the day when things got tough, the size of the book or the pressure surrounding me never stopped me from falling back on my adiction. I ALONE made a conscious decision to do what I felt was right! I have driven to and sat outside of the liquor store, but the choice to walk in and buy a bottle is 100% on ME!
With that being said, I will now ask you to understand that he is not asking you to take 2nd place to anybody or anything. What he is telling you, through making AA his #1, is that he is very worried that the this "disease" that has destroyed his life in the past may come back and destroy his life (with you) in the future. Please understand that (at risk of being banned) where I don't agree with or understand the AA way of life, many people live and die with these rules.
The simple fact is the principle of Occam's razor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
Don't overcomplicate things. He is only tring to be healthy FOR you, not in spite of. Take comfort in the fact that he is worried enough about his/your future that he is willing and aware enough to know what he can and can't do! Ex. cheating is wrong, drinking is wrong... You have a partner that knows this and is giving 120% to ensure that he does evrything that he can to make this marriage work!
It is *not* so black and white. That is important to realize. Some people lean too hard on AA and become dependent on meetings instead of their HP. They become "meeting" addicts. I don't see this as okay. It's actually getting the way of their spiritual growth because they are not moving forward. I'm talking about people with decades of sobriety still attending multiple meetings a week and telling their wives to just suck it up. You have rights too. If, after 30 years, he has to go to an exuberant number of meetings to maintain his sobriety, he's doing it wrong. IMHO. AND according to the Big Book of alcoholics anonymous. There's not a single peep about "Meeting makers make it" or meetings for life even. We are to carry the message. *only* attending meetings to help the newcomer because our sobriety is now in the hands of our HP.
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"I took a long, deep breath and wondered as usual, where to start. You start where you are, is the secret of life. You do the next right thing you can see. Then the next." - Anne Lamott
Basically, I just wanted to say that you do have a say if his AA is getting in the way of your family. But it does have to be within reason. If he's "hiding" in AA meetings, there's a problem.
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"I took a long, deep breath and wondered as usual, where to start. You start where you are, is the secret of life. You do the next right thing you can see. Then the next." - Anne Lamott
Basically, I just wanted to say that you do have a say if his AA is getting in the way of your family. But it does have to be within reason. If he's "hiding" in AA meetings, there's a problem.
Possibly one way to help him understand it is for the both of you to attend an ALANON or AA meeting one town over and ask for opinions. Just a thought
Thank you everyone for the kindness and for the time you spent for me. All your advices were of benefit to me. We both mutually ended our relationship today. It was not easy for me but we had to do it. Again, thank you and more power to all of you and this forum. God bless.
