The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
To add to my new year's resolution I have been starting to go on the chats online. I plan to start going to the meetings next week.
Since me and him have limited calls since he is in jail. We have been spacing it out a couple days apart. Today was the first day in a while that I enjoyed myself and hardly thought about him. Me and my girlfriends went for lunch during work and I really had a great day. I was finally telling myself I think I can love me again and learn to be happy by myself. Well I read a quote from a friend that posted on facebook that this is her year and she is putting everything is gods hands and wont let the devil overcome her joy. Any moment he sees your joy he will try to take it away. Well he told me he was gonna call me tomorrow and he called me today!
The 1st thing he asked me was are you still by my side like you said you were? Are we still solid? He said he had good and bad dreams and had a dream I was done with him. WOW!!!!!
All i have been doing is planning my exit and he feels it. However, I froze and got sucked into his bait. I feel like I am playing games. I told him yes I am here for him but things have to change. I told him I have to concentrate on me and look out for my best interest. He took it the wrong way and thought i was moving on. He was very calm about it and mentioned we should just be friends!
THIS WAS MY MOMENT!!!!!!!!!! AND I BLEW IT! I COULDNT FATHOM HIM BEING SO CALM! I REACTED WRONG AND SAID YES I AM HERE AND I LOVE HIM.
He told me in a serious matter. I dont want to see you miserable and I would rather be friends because I feel like im losing you. when he went to jail before I was putting money for him all the time. now i tell him no. He says he will not go back to his past meaning his baby mama and drugs and i told him its hard because you lost my trust and i dont know what to believe. He said he could be in jail for 6 months. this is my time to leave and I CANT!!! I HAD IT IN MY HAND TODAY AND I CHOSE DIFFERENT. I WAS AFRAID.
HOW CAN I END IT NOW AND BE FRIENDS IF I MISSED MY OPPORTUNITY???????
I ALWAYS GET AFRAID HE WILL GO BACK. HE SAYS IF WE DONT WORK OUT HE WILL DO HIM AND GET BETTER. HE SAYS HE WANTS ME TO BE STRONG AND HAPPY WITH HIM AND MAKE SURE WE ARE BUILD OUR RELATIONSHIP. HE SAYS HIS LIFE IS IN HER HANDS BECAUSE SHE CAN SHOW UP TO COURT OR NOT SHOW UP TO COURT. HE SAYS HE IS LEAVING IT UP TO GOD IF I WANTED TO GO A FEW MONTHS WITHOUT TALKING THAT WOULD BE FINE. IN MY MIND I JUST FELT LIKE THERE WAS AN UNDER LAYING MOTIVE BECAUSE THERE IS NO TRUST RIGHT NOW.
I GUESS I SAID THESE THINGS BECAUSE I DIDNT WANT HIM TO FEEL ABANDON AND UPSET.
AM I WRONG? DO YOU THINK HE IS LYING? OR BEING SERIOUS?
I HATE THIS I GET THE COURAGE TO LEAVE AND THAN TAKE 2 STEPS BACK!!! :(
Julie, I am sorry you are feeling bad. Try to be a little easier on yourself. This is a difficult time for both of you.
There is no easy answer to your question. No one here will tell you to stay or go. The strength you will recieve here is to help yourself. To grow and be strong in your own right. There are a couple of suggestions that are made such as .. if in doubt... don't. No major decision to made in the first 6 months of being in Al Anon. Having said that, only you know the nuances to the relationship.
This is a good time for you to find you. I know for myself, I came here thinking of divorce, to go or stay. We all are presented with the opportunities to stay or go, and those opportunities repeat themselves. My husband walked out one night and said he couldn't be with me anymore.. I had my 'out', but I chose not to take it. We are still together and I feel better about me.
LIfe is made up of choices, we make them everyday. There is no 'right' time to leave a relationship (violence aside), there is no 'right' time to stay in one.... there is the choices that you make on a daily basis.
What is right for you today. It may be different tomorrow, but today, you chose to say you were there for him. You also chose to go and have lunch with friends and have a good time.
Continue to talk to Al Anon people, and to find yourself first. You will be ok
I know that for my intervention and to really love myself and grow and be strong is to cut him off. That would be my cure to myself and I cant. because in his eyes me cutting him off for my well being probably means I am done with him. The way I portray things for my well being is taken the wrong way by him.
I have been with him for almost a yr through hell and back and stuck by his side through all the lies, cheating, he did hit me before, stealing and mental abuse. NO ONE SHOULD ACCEPT THIS! But I choose to stay because he is in jail and not having access to do any of these things gives him the benefit of the doubt. You would think going through that would make someone put their foot down. but I feel like my window to do so is only gonna die down.
If i keep talking to him, i know when he gets out i will be trapped and i wouldnt have this time to develop my well being. But if I let go and he truly does love me he will understand but in my eyes, i dont think im that much of worth to him to fight for me. Maybe this is my low self esteem and maybe it isnt.
It sounds like he knows what buttons to push, and he got the reaction he was looking for. Alcoholics are good at manipulating those closest to them. They are good at outsmarting us. I like what Linda said about choices. You weren't ready to break up over the phone, that's understandable. You still have the choice on the future. Sending you support in dealing with this difficult situation.
I agree with you on the side where he can push my buttons he knows what to say. By him acting non chalant and making it like he is ok to be friends and isnt freaking out or cursing me out knows that I have the fear of losing him and having the upper hand. He got pissed tonight because i wasnt like "YES BABY OF COURSE I LOVE YOU AND YOUR RIDE OR DIE" I actually had a different reaction and was just expressing my concerns and in his head i am done. Its not like in jail before where he would have food and constant minutes. I told him I am hurting too mentally, and financially.
Mate, have a read of my bio. Have a read of others bio's. Read some older posts here. You will see that many of us have been in situations that we knew we should have left and we chose not to at the time.
I dont' know if anything I am going to say is going to help you or not, but this is my experience
For me, in my previous relationships, I let a heap of 'perfect opportunities' go by. One time, I was sitting next to my partner, blood trickling out of my nose, I couldn't breathe, my eyes were starting to swell shut. He had punched me full in the face while I was on my back against the floor with him on top of me. I took the full force of the blow in the middle of my face. He sat next to me telling me how sorry he was. He was drunk. He said he would understand if I wanted to leave him. You know what I did..... I thought, I can't go home to my Mum looking like this? ( I was 21yo and about 8000km from Mum) I actually felt sorry for him that he was upset and loved the idea that he would feel so bad about it that he would appologise and give me the chance to leave him!!! Is this screwed up thinking or what???? I replied to him that I didn't want to leave him. That was the first and last time he apologised for hitting me. It was not the first or last time he physically, sexually and psychologically abused me. It was a very long 8 years with that man. He used to work 'out bush' and was away for weeks at at time. I made sure everything was perfect for him on his return. I could have left then.. by then I was so entrenched in this lifestyle that I didn't even really plan it or think about it. One time we had access to a phone when he was away and he kept asking me if I was leaving him because I was out with friends while he was away and I had NEVER done that before. I reassured him constantly that I was there for him. I eventually left him and have never spoken to him again. He moved in with a new woman 6 weeks after our separation, they are now married.
Another ex partner of mine was/is a paranoid schizophrenic. He threatened my life, he was a very very sick man. He had both auditory and visual hallucinations. He was one of those men that went crazy and walked in the middle of the freeway with the bible preaching knowing that he was god and the cars would go around him.... you know the type.. you watch TV I bet hehehe. Every time he was institutionalised (things were different in the early 90's than they are in Australia now), I had the opportunity to leave him, he always asked if I would stand by him and I always felt like I had to say yes. I did stand by him when he was so ill, he believed I was putting cyanide in teh shower for him to burn. I fell pregnant to this man and had the baby who unfortunately died, but that baby kept me there even longer. Eventually, one day, I just said to him... I can't do this anymore. I dropped him at his mothers house, helped him get on his feet with a new apartment, and then never saw him again.
I could give you a thousand examples of this 'lost opportunity' scenario.
What am I trying to say..... I guess I am trying to say that there is a billion stories out there about how people do this type of thing. When and how opportunities come and go. I know now, if I had a friend, to whom I would actually give advice, and they were in any of the above scenarios, my first and most vehement statement to them would be............... RUUUUUNNN FORREESSSST RRRUUUNNNNN........ Make like the Ginger bread man and run run as fast as you can....... When i did run from that man in the first scenario.. he followed me wiht a rifle..... (gun laws different in Australia too)
Here we do not give advice, we give ESH. My experience has led me to understand that the type of scenario you are in never works out positively, particularly with the past domestic violence, (I am happy to be proven wrong), my strength to you is that you find some peace and use this time away from your partner to get the help you need to make the right decision for you. I would send you strength to help you know what you can and cannot find acceptable, and my hope is that the right decision will come to you with assistance to make it at the right time, and I hope that decision finds you in a safe and peaceful place.
In the mean time... look after you Take what you like and leave the rest
You have not really lost the opportunity. You can make a new decision at any moment if that becomes the right thing to do. Remember the Al-Anon saying, "What other people think of you is none of your business." It sounds as if you are imagining that that was the one right moment to end it with him because he wouldn't have gotten upset with you. But whether he is upset about it is something you have to leave to him. If he is upset, that's not a terrible thing -- people's actions have consequences, and they learn by seeing those consequences. So the fact that he behaved a certain way in the relationship and that caused the relationship to end is valuable feedback. If he finds the results upsetting, maybe that's because they are upsetting. That's how we learn not to repeat our mistakes. Maybe it doesn't even help him to take the learning opportunity away. Not that it is your responsibility to help him or not help him. But sometimes we are so eager to enable that we don't see that some real consequences might be more authentic.
I used to break up with people in the heat of the moment, which gave me the courage to do it. Then when I calmed down I'd be full of self-doubt, because I hadn't really thought the situation through. I think it's actually easier to stay broken up with someone when you've thought it through carefully, planned what you're going to do if he does this or that (begs to get you back, swears he'll change, threatens, tries to enlist others to change your mind, declares he doesn't care and he wanted to break up months ago, insults you, tries to make you feel guilty, immediately gets together with someone you dislike, etc. etc.) Having a plan of action can help smooth the path a lot. You can have friends to call, things to cheer you up, meetings to go to, and lots of support. Also, when you plan it carefully in advance, you can be sure you've thought things through and your decision is what you want.
Not to say what decision is best for you right now. Just to say that not having broken up with him during that phone call is not a disaster, the way I see it. It may have been the right decision for your peace of mind. Now you can really think through what you want to happen, and how, and prepare yourself.
I thnk Linda, Mattie, and the others here have stated much of what I would say. I would just challenge you to imagine who is really in prison here? Him, you, or both of you?
I do feel sad that you are the one outside of the bars but it seems that your prison is worse than his. Alanon is the path towards your freedom. Much of this 12 step stuff is freedom from our own self-sabotage and self-bondage. Our anxieties tend to keep us prisoner and they stop us from being what God intends us to be.
Whatever your higher power is - It does not want you to be clinging to this man out of crippling fear. Better to cling to your higher power and let the guy go. Does your higher power want you to have a relationship where you "go through hell" with someone? Is that a good thing? You can choose to be with this man...there is nothing wrong with that, but don't set him up to be your higher power. He isn't God and he is not the one who can give you what only your higher power can.
DISCLAIMER: Every single one of you have given me strength and support in your own way. Your stories have provided me with the strength to use it in my own battle. however, I want you guys to know that I write my stories with him to vent and just to get an outside prospective to get opinions to see if this is wrong or not. The more I hear your stories and the more I speak to him it hits head on as to how wrong he speaks to me and how much he does not love me. It is all a game to him. What he did this morning has shown me his head is messed up and I am not a girlfriend, I am his to do list and he lies to me about her.
THE RUDE AWAKENING THIS MORNING!!!
This morning was our last phone call. No more minutes on the phone and he called me 8:00 am this morning and I was asleep. We spoke happy and just saying he missed me etc. He asked me as always what did i do last night. (he probably thinks otherwise as always) but he didnt say anything slick, like yea right! I know u were on a date.
Than all of a sudden, he says u dont understand whats going on, nevermind im not gonna mention it. So i was like go ahead say it. He said its my baby mama. She wrote me a latter saying she is speaking to an investigator and that she might show up to court if she finds out who is visiting me and if she finds out I was visiting him it will make it worse for him. I was like WTF!!!!!! WTF!!! is going on. I know he is talking to her. I said I thought she had minutes on your phone, i know your speaking to her. He was saying no she canceled the minutes, blah blah. In my head I knew it was BS. because why would she care who visits him if she is moving away with their child and wanting him to go to prison. Its like if she cant have him, she wants to see him suffer. So I was like (playing like I didnt care) I can't come visit you???? He was like I DONT CARE ABOUT HER, IM DONE. I WANT YOU TO COME, ETC, ETC.
NEXT SUBJECT: PUTTING MONEY FOR HIS SNACK PACK.
I told him last week I wasnt sure if i could do it, my check isnt for a lot this week and of course from losing tons of money from him im trying to save up. My check was actually good but i didnt want him to know. I told him i dont think i can today. I have to check my balance etc. HE BLEW UP!!!!
COME ON! I NEED FOOD. YOUR JUST LIKE MY FAMILY YOU DONT CARE TO SEE HOW IM DOING IN HERE. WHAT KIND OF GIRLFRIEND ARE YOU. EVERYONES GIRLFRIEND IN HERE IS GETTING STUFF AND PUTTING MONEY ON FOR THEM. IM ABOUT TO GO CRAZY!!!! AND FLIP ON SOMEONE IN HERE AND GO INTO THE PSYCH/SUICIDE WATCH!!!
I WAS LIKE "YEA RIGHT" YOUR ALL TALK"
HE SAID THE WORST THING.......HE SAID "ILL JUST CALL MY BABY MAMA AND ASK HER TO PUT MONEY THAN!!!!"
I WAS LIKE OMG THIS ISNT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. HE IS NOT PLAYING GAMES WITH ME SAYING SHE IS GONNA DO THIS TO HIM, AND THAN ASK HER FOR MONEY. THAT MADE ME AUTOMATICALLY THINK HE IS TALKING TO HER AND TELLING HER HE WANTS TO WORK IT OUT AND IM PROBABLY OUT OF HIS LIFE. ETC, ETC I COULD ONLY IMAGINE.
HE KEPT ASKING ARE YOU GONNA PUT? ARE YOU GONNA PUT? SO I WAS LIKE FINALLY YES! TO SHUT HIM UP.
SO THAN HE ASKED CAN YOU PUT MINUTES ON MY PHONE????
THIS HAS JUST SHOWED ME HOW MUCH HE ISNT GOING TO CHANGE. AFTER WAKING UP AND REALIZING HOW HE LIED AND SPOKE TO ME ON OUR LAST CALL JUST MAKES ME LET GO EVEN MORE. IT HURTS EVEN MORE. BUT ITS SAD BECAUSE THE MORE HE MAKES ME FEEL LIKE SHE WILL BE THERE IF I LEAVE, MAKES ME AFRAID TO LEAVE. BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE HE LOVES HER AND DOESNT LOVE ME. OR AT LEAST CARES FOR HER MORE THAN ME.
HE TRIED TO BE SWEET AFTER THAT SAYING I LOVE YOU. IM SORRY IM JUST TIRED OF BEING IN HERE, IM FACING PRISON POINTS, I HOPE YOU CAN STICK BY MY SIDE THE WHOLE WAY.
I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE. BUT WHY IS IT THE MORE HARDER IT IS AND THE MORE I WANT TO LEAVE AND SEE THE TRUTH, IT DRAWS ME IN MORE????? HE IS A SPOILED BRAT. 30 YRS OLD WORRIED ABOUT POP TARTS AND COOKIES.
THE WORST PART IS THAT HE DOESNT SEE THE LITTLE COMMENTS HE MAKES TO GET HIMSELF CAUGHT IN HIS LIES.
I AM AFRAID THAT HE WILL NOT CARE AT ALL IF I LEAVE HIM, BECAUSE SINCE SHE WANTS HIM, SHE DOESNT KNOW WHAT ENABLING IS, SHE WILL DO ANYTHING FOR HIM AND TAKE HIM BACK.
Julie, you sound like you a describing an antisocial criminal who plays people and will do so to get whatever he wants or needs. You are definitely on to some things in this recent post. I know this hurts and you care about him. Antisocial/sociopath types are not just crazy serial killers. They are just like the type of guy you are describing here....in and out of jail again users and manipulators or women. This guy is not available to you and can't give you his love and his heart unconditionally.
Of course the decision is up to you, but this does not sound like mature love to me. It sounds toxic. I am not judging you (maybe judging him a bit)...I suppose I may be trying to be "a fixer" here myself, but I hope you keep leaning in the direction it sounds you are. You deserve trust, honesty, loyalty, and someone with good moral fiber.
