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This is more of a venting session because I know there aren't really answers that can be provided. But what do you do when your AH gets angry for the decisions you made? He's been sober for 2 weeks now and he got really upset when I said the reason I was coming back to town in a couple weeks was because of work, not him. Granted the work reason is true. I had planned to stay with family longer so he could work on himself without us around but work is basically telling me I have to come back or I'll be let go. He was really hurt by that. He's been sober two weeks. He's put me through some scary situations. Before he went back into hospital to detox two weeks ago, he was calling me and threatening to come take the kids, being very verbally abusive, yet lying that he was drinking. I knew he was drinking because he only talks and threatens me like that when he's been drinking. He said, in so many words, that he started drinking again after I left with the kids because we were gone and he couldn't be there for his son's eye surgeries (we found out he had to have Glaucoma surgery the same week I arrived at my parents house). I said, "So you drank because you blamed me?" His response, "You said it, I didn't." Basically telling me the answer was yes. He also told me this evening he was really hurt that I didn't call when he was detoxing. After the two weeks he spent lying to me right before he went to detox, about the drinking, verbally abusing me and threatening to take the kids, I'm supposed to call him when he finally decides to detox? When he isn't even fully sober yet? He throws in my face that he was there I was in the hospital when I had our kids and bent over backwards to make sure I was ok (which was true when our daugther was born but he got kicked out of hospital when our son was born for drinking so that was untrue). He would've called no matter what I would have put him through, if it were me that were the A. He said he family asked him he wants to stay with me if I'm "so mean." Really? So, let's minimize everything he has put me through and I'm talking about the dangerous situations, and I'm mean because I don't want to talk to him when he calling me drunk, I "ran away" from him instead of dealing with our problems head-on. There is a HUGE difference in an A that gets drunk and passes out and an A that gets drunk and does some really scary things and I don't feel safe in my home! It's not running away in my mind, it's getting myself and my kids out of a bad situation!
He also said that Al-Anon is for "bitching about the alcoholic," not about getting help for yourself and getting support for the decisions I had to make to get me and the kids out of that situation.
So, how am I suppose to respond to his hurt, his accusations? I know the 3C's and recite that almost daily as I talk to my HP. But I just don't know what he wants me to say. I'm not sorry for the things I did. I chose my actions based on him and to put me and my kids in a safe situation. To not call him when he was detoxing, I was very hurt and angry myself for what he had just put me through with the harassing phone calls. I'm supportive of him and his recovery but at the same time, I need to see action on his part to stay sober. He thinks I should just trust him with no reservations and I can't do that. Trust has to be re-earned. He wants me to admit the decisions I have made since I left were wrong and I personally don't think I did. His family doesn't help with their opinions of "stick by someone, no matter what" attitude either.
He said tonight he wants to take a few days to not talk (which he's never been able to do, so we'll see if that actually happens), and for me to put myself in his shoes. I do understand he was hurt that I didn't call when he was in detox, I do understand it's hard for your family to be gone, but what about what he's done to us? This is a disease, I get that. But it doesn't take away the things he has done. He needs to provide us with some security and feel safe around him and I'm not there yet. I just don't get why he can't see why I chose the actions I made. Especially when he's sober. But yet, I do wonder if he truly was by the way he talked to me tonight. He wasn't verbally abusive but it bordered on it just because he got so angry and screamed at me a few times. Again, I'm lost as to what I should or should not say him.
Hi, I've been there. There are lots of things I have learned in the years I have been in AlAnon. One, alcoholism is a disease. They don't ask to have it. That said.... it is a disease that affects the mind. It makes them crazy. And even if they haven't drunk booze for a while (sober, they say) it doesn't matter. Their minds are still affected. They are still crazy. Their minds only get better when they sit in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous and talk it out with the people who don't let them bull- shite them. They talk, they listen, they learn....hopefully.
What he is doing to you right now is keeping the focus on HIM! You go to meetings at AlAnon to learn to put the focus on YOU. It doesn't matter what he wants. What do YOU want?
Wow, he hasn't drunk in 2 whole weeks. Give him a medal. But don't call him sober. He needs to show you with his words and his actions that you can trust him again. And be real careful to believe him in what his family says about you. Unless they say it themselves to you, he probably made it up. He is desparate and needs you to believe him. And he has to minimize what he has done to you because he has to live with himself and he is remembering things that he has done and said that were not so nice.
You need to take care of yourself and your kids. Give him to AA and let him live at meetings. You get on with living.
I'm trying so hard to do that. Even his AA meetings, he's not going everyday. Yet, he tells me that's what I should be doing instead of Al-Anon. Go to AA meetings and learn how to love someone who is an A, because it's a disease and they don't mean to do the things they do. All Al-Anon does is bitch and complain. He also mentioned that he'll get drunk tomorrow because of how much I have hurt him today by telling him the reason I was coming home and that I'm acting as if I don't care how he feels. That's not true but I do have to guard my feelings toward him and I just can't simply say I'm ready to come home to see him. I'm not. I've been through so much and I do talk to my HP to guide me in the right direction but I'm just at a loss as to what to say to him when he gets like this because even though I love him, even though he's hurt me badly, even though I feel for him and hate that he's hurting, I'm not sorry for the things I felt I needed to do when we separated. It wasn't to be cold-hearted but that's how he views it. I can't help that I know. I just feel like I'm fighting a losing battle with him and this disease or at least the battle to get better. I get so frustrated when he says he'll talk to our pastor or talk to a good friend that he could use right now or get a counseling appt, and he sits around all day with his parents and doesn't do anything. He does attend AA meetings but not everyday like I think he should. I just feel if his recovery was that important to him, he'd do more than he's doing and he's wanting to lay the guilt trip on me?
It's hard. But remember that you don't have to get his agreement. You're not responsible for calming him down or making him feel better. All you have to do (if you choose to respond -- you don't actually have to say anything at all) -- if you do choose to respond, all you have to do is to say your truth calmly and turn it over to HP. "I didn't call because I wasn't feeling as if that was the right thing to do." Or "I didn't decide to do X because I thought it would be better for myself to do Y." Very likely, if he's a typical A, he will try to argue. A's like nothing better than to bait us and lure us into an argument. And sometimes we like it too. We think we can "win" -- I still have to remind myself, sometimes daily, that recovery is not about winning, it's about not playing. And they like to argue because it gets them away from their feelings, which are overwhelming. Anger and blame are a lot more comfortable than grief, self-examination, and pain. So they try to get things into a state of anger and blame.
All we have to do to evade the anger and blame is to not show up for the argument. As the saying is, "You don't have to show up for every argument you're invited to." If he tries to bait you, you could say, "Well, let's talk about it another time," or "I'm just not going to talk about it any more now," or "You could be right" or "I'm going to go now." Then repeat a hundred times or as many as needed. And/or say you have to go and then go. When they learn that baiting doesn't work, they'll try it less often.
Loving and healthy detachment includes not showing up for those arguments and not thinking we have to respond to their blame and claims. When I realized this, my life got so much more peaceful. The arguments still go on in my head, but that's this year's challenge...
I really recommend the book The Delimma of an Alcoholic Marriage as well as Getting Them Sober. It's a really great easy reads that talks about all kinds of things that go on in a marriage with an active A. Even with sober A's it gives great information about communicating, what we should and shouldn't own and leaves the business of drinking or not on the A.
Many of us have heard similar things from A's getting sober. Alanon is for crazy people, who just want to stay stuck where they are at. It's all about the addict. I mean really why would we want to find relief from dealing with many moons of whatever our past, present and wanting a better future for ourselves? I"m in a snarky mood .. I should apologize. It's just wow .. 2 weeks of sobriety has bought him all of the knowledge of how to live his life. Letting him know that his program of his recovery is ALL about him and he should focus on that while you focus on your program of recovery and that is all about you. It can be said much nicer than that .. however .. it is what it is. That is my truth of my situation I know what I need to do and all I can do is keep doing what I'm doing because I do not want what I have had in the past. I'm so grateful for alanon and these boards it has saved me on so many levels.
You do not have to show up for every argument there are times "You may/might be right." does enough to change the subject and if it's in my best interest I'm going to do what I what is in my best interests.
The issue of work, can you take a family leave? If you can it's at least something to look into.
Keep working on yourself you've received already some great ESH and it does get easier. Put that focus back on you and your answers will come.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
"This is a disease, I get that. But it doesn't take away the things he has done. He needs to provide us with some security and feel safe around him and I'm not there yet. " absolutely!!! Its a disease but there are still steps to make ammends because the person still did what they did. and you are absolutely right, in my opinion, saying taht trust must be re-earned, its one day at a time. He can think about he wants about al-anon, frankly its no one else's business but his own. but you are working your program and doing what is safe for you and your children. I send you support, hope, and courage on your journey. I second Tracey and love that.
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Michelle!
No one can take away your peace of mind unless you let them.
LostMama31- I am totally new to this board, but I can completely relate in many ways to your situation, and I just want you to know that you are not alone (I know you already know that). I comletely agree with everything that maryjane said, and it seems to me like you have the right mindset and good reasons for being separate from your AH. My AH, too, has had many times where he has said that he would get help, see a pastor, schedule a counseling appointment, go to AA more often, etc. I have found that I can almost ALWAYS tell when he is actually serious about wanting to recover or whether he is just trying to make me happy, and I am so tired of begging him to go see someone or hoping that he will change! I went to an Alanon meeting the other night, and someone mentioned what a waste of time it is to try and control someone else's life or place your happiness on someone else's decision to change- it is SO true, because right now I am worn out, tired of playing mom, and I don't even have an ounce of control over his situation! I have a great amount of control over my own situation, though, and you seem so wise to have had the courage to take advantage of that and step out with your kids. I hope I can have your courage, and I admire you greatly. I also agree with that cool "JADE" saying, and I will try and add that to my toolbelt, lol.
