booze in the bushes - Al-Anon Family Group

GreenerGrass · Senior Member

booze in the bushes

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh boy, the memories that come back. My ex-AH was always "helpfully" taking the trash out (or running around the corner to get me something, or just had to get a newspaper, or wanted to take something to the garage, or...) He didn't realize that the back yard was visible from a certain window. And one day I happened to be looking out it and couldn't figure out what in heck he was doing, standing by a bush, leaning over, straightening up, leaning over, straightening up... Then the light bulb went on in my head. At that point we were separating anyway and I was looking for solid evidence of his alcoholism for custody issues, so later I went out and took a photo of the bag behind the bush and all the beer cans in it. Funny, later on I found the photos on my camera mysteriously erased. Oh, the craziness.

The thing is that they think that if we don't actually see them drinking, we'll have no idea! They actually think it's invisible and undetectable if we can't see them taking the drink. That's why they put it in all those weird places, in my experience. And they prefer the drink to everything, even us, because ... they're addicts. That's the definition of an addict. The substance first, everything else way behind. Only an insane person would behave that way. That's what the addiction does. It's hard to get your mind around if you're not an addict. It still absolutely astonishes me.

Hugs.

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

Yep, your post brings back memories for me, too.

My ex-husband, that I'm now reunited with, used to hide his whiskey bottles in the craziest places when he drank for years! The last few years of his drinking career he'd put his whiskey in plastic pepsi bottles. Whiskey and Pepsi are similar in color at a quick glance.

Truly, if there is one thing I know for certain, he isn't drinking because of you! He is drinking and hiding his booze because he is alcoholic. It has absolutely nothing to do with you.

I wish I had known that long ago. Oh, I sufferred plenty thinking it was me. I would have known better if I had gone to Al-Anon long ago.

Be kind to yourself and know you are a worthy person and you can be happy whether he is drinking or not. Your happiness doesn't depend on his choices - practice the principles of Al-Anon and you'll find out. It takes lots and lots of practice.

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

Yup, that is what addiction does. Only an insane person would do that. He doesn't need the booze to go to bed with you. It is not because you are so bad. It is because he is so bad. He needs it to keep the levels (of booze) in his body and brain up high enough. He thinks it is what he needs. So, now that you KNOW he is alcoholic, what are you going to do? Get on with your life and protect yourself from his non-sense. I often would rate what the things in his life were to him.....1. booze. 2. car. 3.booze 4. recliner chair. 5. booze 6. job. 7. tv..... no where was spouse, kids, home, family.

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs GG,

You know you know what you know, I find when I try and figure and speculatate what's going on it puts me into stinking thinking. His drinking is so not about you. You've already gotten great ESH and I really encourage you to just recognize he's going to drink or not it really goes back to what are you going to do.

Hugs p :)

GreenerGrass · Senior Member

Yes, I guess he is insane. Who hides alcohol deep in a bush in the alley? Wouldn't he be embarrassed if someone were to see him, or think he looks suspicious digging around at night in a bush? And its not like he really has to. His drinking is no secret. But, actually I guess it is, I didn't think it was this bad. I thought he knew where to draw the line. That hard alcohol was off limits. Whatever. It's so ridiculous. What am I going to do? I don't know sometimes. It's hard to be in a relationship that is not really a relatiionship. It's not a happy place to be in life that's for sure. It's like he's just a shell of a person now. The outside looks somewhat the same, but he's hallow on the inside, or filled with an addiction. I know that boy I married would not have wanted things to turn out like this. But where did he go? He is truly not here anymore. And yes, family and home are not his priorities at all.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

geez, I do relate to your whole story. But I never took it personally, not ever. I always just thougth it was what he liked to do. That is how naive I was to it, how ignorant.

Hey it just does not matter. That is his thing,not yours. I think I woulda piled a few rocks on it, then made a little grave marker that said,"rest in peace" or something on it. Just is not your problem hon. it really isn't.

I mean that in all love too. It is sad and horrible. Me too, my guy was my boy too, teenagers together.He was always in my life, always him and his brother. I miss them both.

Feel sad for you, know what you and he have lost. He is doing what he does to take care of him. Has zero to do with you. It gets to a point we can only love them, thats all. Then like for me, they go away, and you mourn them.

hugs hugs,debilyn

GreenerGrass · Senior Member

Thank you everyone, as I am reading your responses over and over. Very helpful and encouraging. I guess the hardest thing for me is thinking that he truly does blame me for his drinking. He has cried to me about how he drinks because he hates me so much. Nice huh? Do you think he really thinks its my fault or does he know its his problem? That's actually a question I've wanted to ask on this board about denial. Do they really think they don't have a problem, or deep down do they know it? Because in some pamplets it says things like the alcoholic knows full well his drinking has become a problem, and so on.

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

GreenerGrass,

My ex, that I now live with again after a 20-month separation/divorce, used to tell me ALL the TIME that he drank because of me. He'd say if I were more loving, gave him more attention, and all that, then he wouldn't have to drink. Both our thinking was so distorted for YEARS. He probably believed what he said at the time (he doesn't now) and I know I surely believed that I was responsible to a certain degree. We engaged in this sick cycle for years and years. I got exhausted doing this dance and filed for a divorce (all happened before Al-Anon became a part of my life).

Deep down, did he know I wasn't the cause? Who knows. It doesn't matter to me anymore. I do understand you asking the question, however. I asked myself the same question for years. But I now realize that I would have been so.... much better off if I had focused on me and dug in and discovered my believes, which were very limitiing and most of them were untrue. I was very unconscious. (I'm waking up - but have a long ways to go for the rest of my life.) My believe system was composed of other people's opinions. I didn't trust myself a whole lot - still in the process of developing self-trust.

If I knew what little I do know now 26 or so years ago, I wouldn't spend a minute looking for his hiding places, listening to his song of blame, spinning my wheels on how to get him to stop, lecturing him, and so on. I'd get myself to Al-Anon, attend meetings, read the literature, get a sponsor (something I haven't obtain yet) and work the steps. I'd get off his back. Easy for me to say now. You know what they say about hindsight.

I hope you are able to attend meetings at least. I hope you can open your mind as much as possible. Whatever feels right to you, whatever resonates with you at this point in time, try it. The other stuff, let it go for now and don't worry about it. It might not be right for you right now. We're all on a journey of self-healing and no two journies look exactly alike.

Open mind. Willingness to try something different. Ability to tolerate (trying to find a different word here) being uncomfortable, because change isn't comfy........... that's some of what it takes. Baby steps if necessary.

I'll get off my soapbox. I almost can't help myself. I just want to stand on it and yell, "DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME LIKE I DID! DON'T PUNISH YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!" It's so not necessary.

And... not to offer false hope, but some alcoholics, and there are some here that are part of this forum, DO recover one day at a time. My ex is doing very well. But...for him, he had to almost lose his life before he finally got honest with himself. And.... there is no guarantee he will stay on the recovery trail. But........... I have control of me and my choices. So I put my energy on me; I find I have loads of energy to spare when I do. Then I give to others, but strive to not enable them.

sorry for the lengthy reply. I'm done now smile

-- Edited by GailMichelle on Thursday 15th of December 2011 12:41:23 AM

Lindaoakford · ~*Service Worker*~

My husband snuck off to pick up the palm fronds ready for the lawnmower man. He took forever and being ohhh so helpful around the garden. I went to see what was going on and I could see he was stoned.

In a roundabout dance that we do.... I kinda asked if he was stoned and he kinda said yes... I just shook my head with my mouth open so confused.

He must have hid around the corner crouching in the car port, smoked, hoping I would not come down to help him. He knew I was making dinner you see. He snuck off a number of times.

Ofcourse he 'had' to do that becasue I would 'go off' if he had a smoke rah rah rah rah......
It was my fault of course.

At that time I knew a little better than to get into an argument. I probably said something sarcastic and walked away. It certainly confirmed his addiction to me if I needed any more confirmation.

Lying is just part of what they do. But if they lie that little bit to us... how much is he lying to himself aswell.

Hot Chicka · Veteran Member

It's easier for him if he has someone to blame, right? I'm seen this behavior often from my AH. Someone else is always responsible for the bad things in his life. Not him, no not ever.

If he doesn't have anyone to blame than it might actually mean that *gasp* he has a problem.

grantmeserenity · Member

I know how you feel. My ex (who is back in my life after a separation & recovery) actually told me he was taking up cross country running! He'd pretend to go for runs/walks (we live in the country) but come back high as a kite. I used to feel really sad about it...it made me sad that he had to do that instead of just enjoying life. I missed the sober him. With time I learned to love myself and my life, be happy and peaceful, with him and without him. It will get better!

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

My experience on "Do they really believe what they say?" is sort of yes and sort of no. My ex believed contradictory things. Like, he'd say he used to have a drinking problem but now he didn't any more, and anyway he never had. And I'd feel my head spinning trying to make sense of it. My best guess is that sometimes he had an understanding that it was out of control, but that was so alarming that he lied to himself desperately. They don't know up from down, so what they "really" think isn't a solid fact. When I got pulled into the insanity of alcoholism, I was that way myself. In some ways I knew that my trying to change him so desperately wasn't working and the whole thing was a huge mess, but in other ways I'd think, "If he'd only follow my instructions we could get this solved really quick!" It took a good deal of Al-Anon before I began to see how I was fooling myself. And I wasn't even the drunk one! But the insane thinking can't be overestimated.

-- Edited by Mattie on Thursday 15th of December 2011 04:33:35 AM

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

This is just me...but there is definitely only a limited number of times I could hear "I drink because of you!" before I would have the other person test that theory by living on their own. I also am under no obligation to keep anyone around that says they "hate me." Verbal and emotional abuse is a deal breaker for me.

nyc018 · Senior Member

I know the heartwrenching feeling of finding hidden bottles - even if you know they are there, seeing them and knowing the effort that was put into attempting to hide them is awful. I also felt this way when I would find AH's credit card receipts on the table and one line after the next would be a liquor store (although he didn't seem to hide those).
Remember the hiding is all about their obsession - has zero to do with you or anyone else. BTW, do you have the book "Getting them Sober." It helps shed a lot of light on the feelings you're going through and irrational guilt.
In support, nyc

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

Just a note:

It's all too easy to believe the "I drink because of YOU" song, if you're self-worth is in the toilet and you believe that you really do not matter.

Through lots of counseling, self-help books, and finally Al-Anon, I was able to examine my many believes that were handed to me as a kid. Unknowingly, I embraced a lot of believes that propelled my actions.

Al-Anon is one of several ways to realize our self-worth, that we matter, and we don't have to take the BS that goes with alcoholism.

I believe being raised by a mother with BPD (not knowing this until just a few years ago) I was already conditioned to take such crap as "I drink because of YOU."

My former pyschologist that I went to for many years and the numberous self-help/spiritual books that I studied told me that I was worth something, that I mattered. However, it took Al-Anon, no the members of Al-Anon, to make me a believer.

So I understand how people can take the crap. They are put into a trance. But Al-Anon can slowly wake us up if we are sick of the pain and willing to get uncomfortable.

-- Edited by GailMichelle on Thursday 15th of December 2011 09:21:28 AM

John · ~*Service Worker*~

Booze in the bushes, in the toilet tank, under the seat of the car, behind the ....

Alcoholics will always find a way and means when they are caught in the mist of active alcoholism.

It is sad but so true, that those who are not willing to give themselves to this simple program, follow a few simple suggestions, and do what millions of others have done.... will live a life of hiding... this is called shame. That's what was found in the bush.

John

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

John wrote:

It is sad but so true, that those who are not willing to give themselves to this simple program, follow a few simple suggestions, and do what millions of others have done.... will live a life of hiding... this is called shame. That's what was found in the bush.
John

John nailed it. It's shame. It has nothing to do with you.

Thanks for keeping it simple, John

never going back · Senior Member

Hi (((GG)))
You said
'I guess the hardest thing for me is thinking that he truly does blame me for his drinking'

In my experience,an A will blame everybody and every thing else for their drinking, because if they blame themselves, they have to admit that it's THEIR problem, and that just isnt acceptable. Also, by blaming you, he gets to play the guilt card. And it works, doesn't it? It makes you feel bad and uncertain, and that's just what he wants. Make no mistake, if you weren't there to blame it on, he'd find someone/something else. Does he really believe what he's saying? Maybe. I don't think my AH really believed most of his excuses because he would often tell me, after he sobered up a bit, that he didn't mean any of it, didn't mean to hurt me. It was the booze talking! And I guess that's supposed to make me feel better??
It's SO hard for me not to take the things my AH says and does as a personal attack. I'm getting better, but it still hurts.

Thinking of you today; thanks for sharing.
Dnis

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh green he is talking about hating himself NOT you. They are so sick they cannot accept it is them that is so sick, and it is the disease they hate, Their brains are so messed up.

There is no use giving those words any credance at all. I do know it is so hard to hear that. Just is not how he feels in his heart. How sick would you have to be to hide bottles in a bush Green?

If we cannot learn to detach from it, we have go to protect ourselves and stay away from it. Or it will tear us down and kill us.

I used to imagine a wad of cancer with a mouth yapping when my A would talk. Just was not worth my time to listen to it.

Its not about us at all. A disease is not from us. This disease makes them insane.

Green I am not kidding, I was with my A in recovery for years. When he had the medical relapse, he was the opposite of himself. Its the hardest thing to face, everything about him was the opposite of who he was. I am talking is appetite, the way he walked, the way he carried himself, his lack of intelligence, emotions all crazy, ugh

This is what makes us have to do things for ourselves, build ourselves up and know we are good,loving people. Sure enough to know his or her words are bolony.

hugs hugs, debilyn

Michelle814 · ~*Service Worker*~

the things that alcoholics/addicts do when enslaved by their addictions do not make sense, cannot be rationalized, and seem completely insane because... it is insane, they are insane, it is a disease.

Once I accepted this and the three C's (didn't cause it, can't cure it or control it) I felt reliefe. It was not me at all.. in fact my husband loves me dearly. But he cannot show it and cannot be the man that I married when he is slave to the bottle. I have that man back right now and I am grateful every second but who knows what tomorrow will bring. I know that no matter what God throws my way, I can handle, with his help.

Hang in there, GreenerGrass, you are soul searching right now and remember that "the deeper sorrow dwells into your being the more space there is for joy to fill it."

-- Edited by Michelle814 on Thursday 15th of December 2011 12:18:15 PM

GreenerGrass · Senior Member

Thank you everyone.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.