Hi there :) I've been seeking the wisdom of experience from members on the MIP AA board. Their shares i have really appreciated. Everyone's feedback has helped me so much. More than simple words can begin to express. Im determined to learn as much as I can from your and their experiences as it helps me grow in my own life but also in understanding my man's world - especially since he has been doing his best to keep me out of it. I have been working on preparedness for a WOW moment and I just had one! I wanted to share it here because if I had not come here and gone to AA, and being blessed by some amazing men brave enough to share their stories and hear my pleas, I might not have had the ability to pass on what was passed on to me. So in my journey through this new life, I'm sharing details of our talk and I hope you will give me some more insights. And as always, please don't feel afraid to criticize. I'm sharing to learn, so I can grow & not keep him sick. I do understand it's got to be up to him to do the work to get better and he has to want to. And man does he have a long way to go... But I don't want to e caught off guard and add to his disease. I met with my man!! He started off all defensive. The disease and denial were yelling at me. At sat there, indifferent (which was awesome because it was genuine) and let him have his tantrum. (this is the beginning of where all the help you've given me came in to play!) He said he wasn't an alcoholic or drug addict. How could I even say that? Are you crazy? He asked. (lol) Then he went on this rant trying to toss all this bs my way. It was like listening to a kid lying about his hand in the cookie jar. Kinda sad, but at least I could finally understand where and why he was acting that way. Most importantly, I remained secure and strong. I wasn't getting hurt. :) Finally he started to calm down once he realized I wasnt reacting. And I softly said "I was reacting to how you were treating me." He went off again. "I don't say anything to be warranting that kind of reaction from you!" he blasted. So I said "That's the point. You don't say ANYTHING. You ignore me and shut down. That passive-aggressive 'xxxx' doesn't make you nice. You weren't talking to me. You found out we made a baby and did nothing. Oh no. Wait. You did one thing. You found your way to AC to get drunk with the guys. But no time to call me or have a conversation with me. You claimed to love me, but you showed me I can go to hell. And you can sit here, barking at me, telling me I'm crazy and actually state you did nothing wrong? And you really think I'm NOT going to be pissed? Or that wasn't supposed to hurt me?" Finally, he said "I see. So the passive-aggressive is like me pushing your buttons and that's why you react that way?" I said "yes" then he said "oh. Because that's not like you." Anyway, we went on. And for the next hour he teetered between being defensive and starting to open up. So he started asking how he was behaving. I told him. Nicely but gave him facts and reaffirmed with things he knew he had to have told me in the past. That helped him to accept and validate what I shared with him. Then he said "Why do you love me this way? I mean, there so much 'xxxx'. And it's crazy! And it's all shit you don't need. You don't deserve any of this and... I mean, don't you get thats why I pushed you away? You don't need to be in the middle of this 'xxxx'. It's not good for you." so I said "you're right. And I don't want the 'xxxx'. I'm going to tell you...the same thing I told you the night in my backyard. Do you remember that?" he remembered some of it but not a lot that we said. So I reminded him "you begged me not to love you this way not when you were a mess. And I still feel the same way. I don't love the mess. But I do love you. You, that's burried under all that mess. You that'd here with me right now, whose trying. And I'm learning. I don't love the mess. I love you. In sickness and in health. That's why I keep faith... That you will get better so I can truly love you. Because I can't love you the way I want as long as you don't love yourself." and he agreed and said "that's what I don't get. Why? Why do you want to deal with this shit?" so I said "that's funny. The first counselor I went to asked me the same thing. "what did u say?" he asked dumbfounded. "I said look, if the guy got shot or in a terrible accident and it left him bound to a wheelchair, I wouldn't ditch his ass." he laughed and said "you're crazy" and I laughed and said "that's part of why u love me!" and he laughed then got serious again and said "yeah but, why? Just why?" so I said "because I love you. I mean it when I say in sickness and in health. Right now, where we are in your mess, sucks. I'm screwed. I'm in a no win situation. I want you and I want to be with you, but I can't have you until you can do what you need to get yourself back. And the only way I can really love you right now is to love you enough to let you go. And as long as you stay right where you are, I can't love you like I want to because you're not there." he said "I see." We got to the restaurant. He wasnt admitting outright that he was an alcoholic, but was indirectly. Then he said "I guess you're not going to let me order a beer when we go in." I said "dude you're a grown-ass 46 year old man. I'm not going to tell you what to do. You have an 83 yr old mother. I have a 13 year old. I don't want to parent you just like I don't want you trying to parent me." Then he started talking about how his mom and everyone else is always lecturing him and telling him what to do. We went in and he did order a beer. And I acted like it was soda. He was reluctant to drink it. Sipped it real slow. And was opening up more. We were joking around. And he brought it back up and asked why I didn't say anything about it. So I explained. I told him that I wasn't going to be his mother, I'm his lover and his friend and said "I want you to be an adult with me. An adult that can help me raise my son. And I want us to let the little kids in us go play! So no. I'm not about to parent you." He thanked me and said "I like that." As dinner went on, he asked me why I went to AA. So I told him how I started out wanting to understand him but how much *I* was getting out of it. That it wasn't at all what I expected in that I thought it was some sort of weird super religious cult. But that was way wrong and it's actually really cool and I was getting so much out of it and growing. Then he said "maybe you'll be the one to inspire me" and I lightly laughed it off saying "oh yeah" and he said "I know. It has to find me. Least that's what Bill W says, right?" I was floored! He knew I would be and made this face as if to say "I'm reading it" and pulled me close and kissed my head. We talked more. He asked me more questions about how he was mean, how was his behavior different, whatdid I mean when I said x, y, & z. It was good. :) Finally, as we were driving home, he said "see it's a vicious cycle. It never ends. And it just makes it all 'xxxx' up. And that's what I don't get. It just never stops. Don't u see that?" and I said "I know. As long as you stay where u are, that's all that will happen. The point of nothing changes if nothing changes." Then he said but you're really willing to deal with this with me? I said yep. And he said "you really love me?" and I said "yes" he said "i mean really love me? As is?" and I said "yes I love you - as is" and he said, in a very honest, gut-wrenching, manned-up admission: "I mean you love me, even though I'm an alcoholic and a 'xxxx' drug addict?" And I kissed him and said "I dispise the addictions especially because of what they do, but I DO love you." And he said again calmer and more accepting of hearing his own words "so even though I'm an alcoholic...and a... Drug addict, you love me... As is." I said "yes baby, I do." then he said "and you're ok with that?" so I said "I don't like the way those things make you behave. And be patient with me as I'm learning not to take it all personally. I'm not going to ever love your addictions, but I will support you as you grow and with the changes you want to make when you are ready." he said "I never thought you'd feel this way." I told him "look. Im not sure if you remember, but when we first started and you realized you were falling in love with me, you began pulling away." and he said sadly "yeah..." So I went on "do you think, maybe, that you were subconsciously sabotaging us because you thought I'd dump you if I learned the truth?" and he said "I'm glad you said that. I wasn't seeing it like that. I think thats right. I was... I have been afraid of losing you and I did think you would've dumped my ass if you knew. I guess I was pushing you away to avoid getting hurt." so I said "can we now stop hurting each other and just talk about things openly?" and he said "yeah. I like that. Promise me no more crazy?" and I said "yes. I promise. So no more hiding?" he said "no more" then he said "I'm really glad we talked. I'm really glad we talked about this. I feel a lot better." I said me too. Then we kissed :) and he walked me to the door and we kissed again. We were both happy & I knew he was leaving me with a little bit of hope. :) So how would you, those of you that have been through what he's going through, can I feel good about this???