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Our daughter moved back into our home after a 1st stay at rehab. She is 25. She said that she really didn't belong in rehab. HA! She ended up drunk and we told her to leave. She is in contact but says that she has no where to live. She does have a car. We will not let her move back in. We will not pay for a place for her to live. She has an outstanding traffic ticket. If she doesn't address the ticket she will have more problems.....
#1 - should we help with ticket?
#2 - when we know she is drunk should we let her leave in her car? I feel so very morally obligated. I know that she drives so many times without us having any knowledge of her whereabouts or condition. But when we have the knowledge I am afraid she may hurt someone else too - along with herself.
#3 - How far do you let someone go down? I think that rock bottom can be so different for different people.
I have not gone to an Al-Anon meeting yet. We did receive counseling several years ago. The up and down has been going on for 5 years or more.
Some advice from folks who have been there please!
Welcome to the boards, I encourage you to go to an alanon meetings. It's kind of one of those things that what works for one person doesn't work for everyone because everyone is on a different life experience of getting to that place of sober. Just because someone reaches sober doesn't mean everything is fixed it's a life long journey.
There are some great books that are available at the library or for purchase (amazon.com has good prices. ) Getting them sober, Toby Drew Rice is a very good book. I think there are different versions for different situations (spouses, children and so on).
You are right everyone has a different bottom and someone's bottom to me is where the pain finally outweighs the emotional gain they are getting from a personal act. That varies that while you might feel this has to be it, what else can happen believe me a whole lot more sometimes has to happen before an addict surrenders to the fact something isn't working for them. Everyone also has different things as far as what enabling means. I find when I stay on my side of the street and stop cleaning up loved one's messes that my life gets a whole lot easier. It's not to say the urge isn't there from time to time to venture over to the dark side (just that the lights are only on and I can only see what I need to take care of, I don't know what someone else's issues are it's dark and their light is for them alone) of someone else's business.
I hope you will keep coming back and you will find an alanon meeting to attend, it is life changing and life altering.
Hugs p :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Such of difficult connundrum. I am inspired by your strength and determination to not enable her. I know it much hurt you so badly to see this trainwreck occurring right in front of your face. I think you answered your own question though when you stated you wont let her live there or pay for a place for her to live. Paying for her ticket is already beyond the boundary you stated. As far as her drunk driving. You are powerless over that and nothing you do will change it.
Alanon might help you separate your feelings in a healthy way. You say you feel morally obligated. Okay...well you can only control yourself here. Your daughter is a grown adult (even if she doesn't act like it). Do you drive drunk? Do you refuse to pay tickets? No - that is where your morality needs to be at this point - focused on you and not imposing morality on another adult. You did not cause her alcholism. More than likely you raised her as best you could and it will behoove you to continue telling yourself that you did to your job and she didn't wind up this way because of you. You are not morally responsible for the fact that she has alcoholism and that the disease is distorting the otherwise fine morals that you probably raised her to have.
Well.....I ask that question because I wouldn't let a friend leave my house and drive home drunk either. When it is in my control to take keys and stop her should I do it? She can't come here drunk - our rule, but when she does do I allow her to leave if we discvoered that she actually is drunk or high? She calls herself a "reliable: drunk whatever the hell that means!
It's insanity FH - You can't take anything she says seriously with regard to her drinking and the behaviors that go around it. Do not try an wrap your mind around statements of being a "responsible drunk" or "not needing rehab" as we know these are ridiculous statements. Anyone who winds up in rehab belongs there and she is just talking bullcrap (actually the disease is talking for her).
When you are talking about not letting a friend drive drunk - You are probably referring to one of your cohorts or peers that you know is typically responsible that has had a few too many. It is 100 percent different than trying to rationally respond to your out of control alcoholic daughter who has already used up your help and won't learn from it. If I saw her literally staggering into her car, I would call the police. I would not drive myself mad trying to figure out how drunk she is when I see her. You don't need to be her breathalizer. If she screws up (God forbid anyone gets really hurt) the police will do that for you and she has a better chance learning from them.
**This is just me though FH - other members may have different ideas and more valuable info that makes sense to you. We take what makes sense to us here and leave the rest.
Mark
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 19th of November 2011 11:38:28 AM
I'm sure others will reply. Everyone is at a different point of healing and what they would do. There are some thoughts to consider are you taking her keys and letting her sleep it off at your house? Are you taking her keys calling a cab to take her home? I asked my A to leave the house and that night he got a DUI, he was drunk. It's been a big learning experience .. I look back now and I would make the choice again, (with the same results even). I thank my HP every day that he didn't hurt himself or someone else. He was lucky. I honestly thought he was going somewhere else to sleep it off I had no idea he would decide to go from gas station to gas station to drink in the parking lot through town to another bar completely out of town. It really comes down to what are you prepared to do and what are you prepared to deal with as far as the consequences go. If she leaves and gets the DUI are you going to bail her out? Accept financial responsibility? those are all very personal choices and what's right for me isn't right for everyone else.
There's probably more questions than that to be pondered the reality is .. she's going to drink or not .. what are YOU going to do? That's part of admitting we are powerless over addiction. I can't keep my AH from taking another drink anymore than I can shout at the sea and keep the tide from rolling in. It becomes a very personal choice as to how I'm going to participate in the dance of addiction. My choice now is to allow my AH to deal with everything that has to do with DUI, he pays the bills for it, he makes the phone calls for appointments (I'm still struggling on one thing I'm a part of), the point is it's HIS mess. The kids and I are along for the ride it's on him. He has to sit in it and live it and it's a LONG process for some. His dance partner is his choice of addiction and all I can do is take care of myself and the kids, and do my best to love him where he is at. I don't have to tolerate unacceptable behavior or be a doormat. If I wouldn't accept it from a friend I won't accept it from him.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I do not have a child with a drinking problem, but I do have a husband who drove drunk far more times than I could count. He is currently in recover for the past 6 months.
I highly suggest that you educate yourself on alcoholism and other substance addiction. The understanding will help you make educated choices. In addition, I highly recommend Al-Anon meetings and its literature.
I attend a weekly Al-Anon meeting in which several parents attend. From their shares within the group, I see them come to grips with their challenges and find answers that they can live with. No one will give you advice, for everyone holds their answers inside themselves. And, what is right for one person is not right for another sometimes.
Reading posts on this board is helpful, as well as posting as you just did.
Believe it or not, you can find peace regardless of what your daughter decides to do. Hard to believe now. However, I have witnessed parents with children who have addictions change their own lifes for the better.
Take good care, Gail
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You have to go through the darkness to truly know the light. Lama Surya Das
Resentment is like taking poison & waiting for the other person to die. Malachy McCourt
Regarding "reliable",....A "rose" by any other name.... it has taken me a very long time and I still can get trip over my ex's words. I have learned that it is unhealthy for me to give thought to words that come from an irrational place.
Yours is a difficult question to answer, and, a difficult decision to make. Going to Alanon meetings and finding a sponsor will help you sort and strengthen your boundaries and make decisions that are right for you. The more exposure I have to Alanon, the more my perceptions slowly change and the answers come.
I hope you are able to find an Al-anon face to face meeting in your area, that is where I get the most support in the heat of it. I am sending you love and support on your journey!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
Aloha FH...if what you have done hasn't worked do something different. Going to the Al-Anon Family Groups face to face meetings is different that what you are doing now. She and you and the rest of the family is up against a mind and mood altering chemical which is the tap root to an incurable disease; one which is fatal if the alcoholic doesn't abstain permanently. It also can and has been fatal for those it comes in contact with who do not drink at all. Learn the difference between enabling (doing something you think is helpful and only results in increased negative consequences) and helping (doing what supports arresting the addiction regardless of negative complaints from the addicted person). Go to school on the condition(s) of addiction. Learn as much as you can about it and about it and you. That is part of what worked for me cause when I got into Al-Anon honestly I knew nothing about the disease of alcoholism and didn't know that I didn't know. This is the most cunning, powerful and baffling of diseases and one of the baffling parts is that it will get worse and stronger when loving people attempt to relieve the addicted from the consequences of their choices.
Keep coming back here and great work setting boundaries and taking hands off of her problems. Keep facing her toward AA each time she reaches out for help.
When I am trying to decide what to do, I try to think ...what consequences can I live with? I have somewhat successfully detached from my A and his disease, but when I can't deal with the consequences of his actions (like driving drunk with my kids in the car) I take action.
What consequences will affect YOU? what do you need to do to keep YOU healthy? How will you feel if she kills someone while driving drunk? What can you live with?
That being said, sometimes it's really hard to separate what is hers and what is yours in terms of consequences...which is why we hesitate to give advice on the board...we are all just fumbling through life trying to live with the disease....and often there is no one right answer.
Love and support coming your way as you deal with your own set of trials and uncertainties...know that so many of us are struggling with similar issues.
Welcome to the forum. I see you have had quite an introduction already. I have no experience with a child that suffers from alcoholism. However, I do have experience of being in Alanon and I think you will find many families in there who have walked down that same road also. There is such tremendous wisdom in hearing other families experience, strength and hope of walking through this disease with their children. It is much different experience than getting this information from a book and trying to do this alone.
If you decide to attend a face to face meeting, it is suggested you try six or more before making a decision as to whether or not alanon is for you. I am so glad you found us. I think you will find you are in the right place.
The up and down is pretty wearing isn't it. Eventually the down was rock bottom for me. I did what was suggested here, meetings (& believe me I was in no way a meeting type person but boy am I glad I took this path) reading, sharing here......it all works if I work it.
I repeat the 3C's a lot.....didnt Cause it, cant Control it, cant Cure it.
Fear, projecting, misplaced guilt etc etc......... all can keep us in a place that drains the life out of us. There is a way forward in the gentle Al-anon programme.
Your daughter has to take responsibility for the consequences of her choices, and yes they may be tough..... BUT........she will never have the incentive to change if she is protected from them. Why bother to change if someone else smooths out the hard edges, this just gives them more time to feed their disease and stay in denial.
I have done things, enabled, to ease my own fears when I should have minded my own business. I didn't look at how my actions would be perceived by the addict or the consequences they would have on me...... but we all do the best we can with what we know at the time.
