"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

jmanning · Veteran Member

Another bad day......just need to vent

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

"I have been with him now for 4 years. He has had 4 DUI's, served 45 days in county once and now he is in county for 33 days and awaiting transfer to a rehab for 9 months. He tells me he is done drinking and he is tired of going to jail and getting in trouble. That he loves me, misses me and says he is sorry for doing this to me. And is anxious to go to rehab to get help. But yet says he don't have a problem and its all the cops fault."

Wow.... sorry to hear you're feeling down.... I would encourage you to try to take a step back, and re-read what you put in your post..... Four DUI's in 4 years, and yet he doesn't think he has a problem (yet he wants to go to rehab, hmmm) and it is the cop's fault???? Yikes....

He will either drink (or be in complete denial) or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?

I hope you choose recovery - for you.....

Tom

-- Edited by canadianguy on Wednesday 19th of October 2011 09:10:55 PM

MeTwo2 · ~*Service Worker*~

powerful Tom .. definite wisdom in the above ..

it's hard jmanning .. what i'm learning through program now is that little bits of wisdom as in the above keep building and eventually we have collective wisdom, collective strength .. eventually enough to walk away .. for me .. i recognise how it's so hard to fully and completely walk away from my partner (in my head) because i've known his behavior my whole life .. the thinking .. behaviors are very much the same although not quite as hidden in my a as in my family of origin because they are very hidden in my family of origin yet very much there ..

as powerless as i am over my alcoholic though was as powerless as i was over my ability to walk away .. i couldn't (without alanon and higher power) .. in fact .. i believe our separation was my higher power doing for us what we couldn't do for ourselves because i was enmeshed with my partner completely .. the sentence in alanon's blue pathway to alanon book reads, "when my husband and i got married, we became one we became Him." my partner and i never married but were with eachother 24/7 so long it felt like we were ..

this disease is so powerful that denial is a shockabsorber for the soul .. in my case, we've been separated for 2 months now and yet were on the verge of it for several and it's such a subtle transition for me based on how quickly my own denial is being removed .. i'm less in it now but for some time it was like the pain was so much i could only tell myself little by little we were through .. i'm coming to believe it now though as all of my illusions including my illusions of love are shattering..

my partner was a meth addict / then some .. alcohol, etc.. went to prison at one point in his life and should have gone back .. by nothing more than the grace of god and his choosing to attend some AA meetings, he got let off by who he'd met in the program, etc.. long story but there are a variety of members with annonymous backgrounds in the programs .. he goes to one meeting every so often but has the illusion of recovery .. he never did begin the steps .. his thinking and behaviors have Never changed .. without recovery and higher power they never can .. not lasting changes anyway.. the power to back up the alcoholic's wills or will do's in our cases, is just not there .. regardless of what they say, if they could quit, they most likely would and probably mean it when they say they are tired but for those who have tried, their insanity has been to try and try over and over again Alone and fail while expecting to succeed .. they don't do what they do because of us though .. it's just who they are .. addicts slash alcoholics .. they are doing what addicts and alcoholics do ..

The only thing we can do, therefore, as Tom has posted is decide .. what are We going to do to change our obssessions fears wants will do's etc .. at the end of the day ,, what We do affects us Far more than what Anyone else ever will ..

Good luck in this .. keep sharing !! I need to myself .. very hard spot here now too with visitations beginning .. one at a time .. sighs ..

RLC · ~*Service Worker*~

Jan,

You will have 9 months to access your life. He will have 9 months to change his. History seems of indicate otherwise. Not judging only reading what you posted. Regardless, I hope you use this time to keep the complete focus on yourself and what is best for you. Show yourself some love and use this time to take care of yourself......don't forget you are important!

This program will give you the help you need and deserve. Seeking recovery in the rooms of Al-Anon, listening to other members ES&H, coming to MIP and posting, and applying the program in your life will offer you that guidence and will make your life better.

In life we all come to crossroads. I hope you choose the road to recovery. Find a meeting.....get a sponsor......this program will give you a new prespective on life....a life filled with hope and serenity.

Now is the perfect time to start taking care of Jan....Do the next right thing.

HUGS,
RLC

rosielee · Senior Member

yep- i second that said so far

i hate to tell yu this- but some people cant be fixed and you can spend so much energy trying to do so- i had a child with this man who had kids with previous partners and why did i think i was going to be different? his previous mother of his child wont let him nar the child- and i used to think- maybe he culd repair things and now i wnt lt him see his kid either( because he has never been bthered- they dont tell you the honest truth) and now i understand. he went off with someone else and sh said she wuld be different- guess how that turned out. all i can say is- be careful about hanging onto every word they say and giving it credence- it can put yu into a whole heap of damae and troble- often they play you- saying they want to quit when they know its what you want to hear- deep down- sometims- some people have no intention.

put it this way- 16 years ago- when i was with my partner he said he would give up drugs if i took a computer out on loan for him to use so it would take his mind off of the withdrawal symptoms- i wanted this so bad- i did stuff like this.....16 years on- he is STILL using. i havent seen him for 13 years. one day i woke up to him and now i can see the lies and manipulation for what it was.

rosielee · Senior Member

sounds like you are paying some of his fines are you? in that case- the potential re-hab place coming up is convenient information you need to hear right now- he needs a prop- thats how he gets through life- by using others probably. i would leave his fines- his jail time because this is his mess and then if he does well in re-hab - you can help him and pull out all the stops.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Part of the steps in recovery is for a person to make their own amends and step up to the plate. If you pay his fines, that is enabling him. I think you are painting a picture here of a serious alcoholic with some antisocial personality disorder traits if not the whole disorder. Of course I can't say for sure but studies have shown that not only are a large portion of Alcoholic males diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder (especially the rageful barfighting violent ones), but about 80 percent of those who are in prison or spent any serious time in prison also meet the criteria for that diagnosis. Here is a quick synopsis of APD:

Antisocial personality disorder is a mental health condition in which a person has a long-term pattern of manipulating, exploiting, or violating the rights of others. This behavior is often criminal.

Causes, incidence, and risk factors
The causes of antisocial personality disorder are unknown. Genetic factors and child abuse are believed to contribute to the development of this condition. People with an antisocial or alcoholic parent are at increased risk. Far more men than women are affected. The condition is common in people who are in prison.

Fire-setting and cruelty to animals during childhood are linked to the development of antisocial personality.

Some people believe that psychopathic personality (psychopathy) is the same disorder. Others believe that psychopathic personality is a similar but more severe disorder.

Symptoms
A person with antisocial personality disorder may:

Be able to act witty and charming

Be good at flattery and manipulating other people's emotions

Break the law repeatedly

Disregard the safety of self and others

Have problems with substance abuse

Lie, steal, and fight often

Not show guilt or remorse (or they only show remorse for the situation they put themselves in or as a way to manipulate others - no remorse for victims because they deny they create victims)

Often be angry or arrogant

****Of course I do reserve the right to be wrong and I'm not giving you advice here. I do figure knowledge is power though and not sure if this will aid you or not.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

By the way Rosielee - this is thought to be the male version of BPD. Thought you might find that interesting. Researchers seem to think the same cause is at the root of both but that gender patterns cause the above for males and BPD for females.

tommyecat · ~*Service Worker*~

Jmanning,

I think it would be good to use the next 9 months to dive into you. It is a gift. Uncover, discover, and discard things in your life that you no longer find are a benefit to you. Working the steps with my sponsor helped me through that process. It was a journey I have never regretted.

In support,

T

jmanning · Veteran Member

Thanks everyone for the encouragement and words of wisdom. I am taking this time for me. And I found out over this months time that I can do it on my own and I am stronger than I thought.

Rosielee..I don't pay his fines, he pays them himself. I found about the fines thru him at our visit because they asked him about them. And I went to find out so I had some knowledge on it.

Pinkchip...Symptoms
A person with antisocial personality disorder may:

Be able to act witty and charming------------Yes

Be good at flattery and manipulating other people's emotions----------sometimes

Break the law repeatedly--------------Drinking and driving

Disregard the safety of self and others---------only when driving drunk

Have problems with substance abuse----------alcoholic

Lie, steal, and fight often-----------no

Not show guilt or remorse (or they only show remorse for the situation they put themselves in or as a way to manipulate others - no remorse for victims because they deny they create victims)---------He does show remorse for putting me thru this, tells me he is sorry all the time.

Often be angry or arrogant-----------------no
So I don't know if he does or not fit into this....

Tom.."He will either drink (or be in complete denial) or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?" I am going to find myself. And not change who I am when he gets out. And if he drinks I will leave.

RLC....I am going to take care of myself. I cannot change him or fix him I can only be accountable for myself. Unfortunately I cannot make it to F2F mtgs, they are scheduled the same time I have classes.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

All of the clients I worked with in Jail settings would show remorse "for what I put my family through"...meanwhile they did not show remorse for drunk driving or battery or robbing people or selling drugs. So they would tell you they had remorse, but they really didn't. They were upset about hurting only people that mattered to them. That is what you described with him also. It doesn't seem like he feels remorse about repeatedly endangering people's lives by drunk driving.

Anyhow, my point isn't really to diagnose your husband on this forum but more to help you see patterns going on that you are powerless against in addition to his alcoholism.

Even if he did have Antisocial Personality Disorder, that would not make him an unlovable or bad person cuz just like Alcoholism, he didn't ask for it and also it can be treated too (though it's difficult because people with personality disorders always think the problem is with everyone else). This type of person is very charming and sweet when they want to be and when they are good they are very good.....but when they are bad.....

Anyhow, I said before, I think you are doing really great adjusting to a super difficult situation and for that I really give you kudos.

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Jm,

You have gotten great ESH already and I wanted to add something I experienced this past year with my AH. What you are hearing about now is probably not all of it .. I am not trying to be negative just realistic. I have known trouble that my AH has had with the law that he has never told me this was way before our time and I have been disappointed he chose not to tell me. This is information that has never come up and it's not really up to me to bring it up. I try and stick to the I know what I know and if this is what I know, what I don't know ... it would probably put a whole other spin on things. I don't need to know at this point because .. I already know what I know .. lol .. I'd add a you know at the end of that however it would get to confusing. :)

The other thing is this as well, and this is my AH .. saying I'm sorry for putting the family through "this" what does that mean? In my mind a big nothing. I'm sorry the dog got run over by the car or I'm sorry I got caught? Pick one. I have a vivid scene in my mind of that I won't bore everyone with the details of it. Suffice to say, in not owning what he was "sorry" for the I'm sorry did not fly. I did not argue, I did call him out on it. I have never said another word about it, his I'm sorry" was left at the door. Since that happened I've not demanded he apologize to the family, I have not said another word about the incident, I did not tell him how to apologize during that time. I did tell him I'm sorry wasn't enough. I did not move further into what I wanted. He actually just a few weeks ago truly apologized to me and to the kids for this pat year. I mean he owned it. This was no I'm sorry. It was an apology and for me there is a clear difference. Granted it was over text, this is coming from a man who saying I'm sorry I can count on one hand in 13 years how many times I've heard that from him. So this was really huge and it's a start for healing for us both. I graciously accepted it too. I know how hard that was for him to type those things.

What I read in your post and Tom outlined it pretty well is that he's really not sorry, .. he's sorry he got caught ... he's sorry you are doing fine without him. Saying I'm sorry I got a DUI and what I've put our family through, the embarrassment, the lying, the deception. I am tired of feeling this way it's to much for me to handle alone I need help. That is being truly remorseful. It's about owning the actions and the consequences that follow from the actions that we ourselves generate. I'm sorry .. ok .. for what? That just doesn't cut it for me anymore, actions speak much louder than words and he has a lot of time he can focus on himself and get himself straightened out and you have a beautiful opportunity to do the same. It is possible, as others have continued to share put the focus on you and things will continue to get better for you.

Hugs P :)

PS - just my own ESH so take what you like and leave the rest, it's what was true for me.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

he served 4 yrs in prison in 88, so the fines couldn't be his.

um so he lied by ommision? You said he did not lie.

Denial is huge. We don't know we are doing it. Look at all the things he has been through with the law, and things he has not been caught for.

I say look as I know it is not being seen. As what I heard is,"If he drinks ONE more time,I am outta here." Why, why does one have to have one more time? How many times does it take to learn if we are going to cont to live this way?

Ultimatums don't work, standing on a cliff saying if you push me one more time....

I agree, we all do well to go to meetings, read literature.Hey go sit in a court room and watch as these A's say the same things!

Then see them come back again and again.

Hey they all say the same things. I am sorry, I will do this, I will do that. Well of course they say it. They want a place to be so they can do their drug of choice again. Like every other time!

This is the typical do the same things expecting a different result is insanity! Hey why not try something different.

There are halfway houses, there are steps out there for them to get jobs, go to AA. Learn how to be in recovery and get on a program. GEt their own job, own vehicle, own place.

If you get back together great. But this way they have time to show what they do and you can ignore what they say.

Or else you can choose insanity! hugs, keep coming, debilyn

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"